Narrowing PAF Gap V IAF by 2015

[softtec]

Quite the contrary - Pakistan's strategy is to deny the Indian the possibility of victory -- and it has been able to do this generally successfully, in other words, PAF is able to deny IAF the assurance of victory, such that whereas IAF may have a greater budget and a larger force and a greater number of aircraft, but it cannot give Indian policy makers the assurance of victory should the Indian initiate hostilities.


So PAF does not need to match aircraft for aircraft, it must just continue to deny the IAF assurance of victory, even as the PAF builds capacity within the PAF for both defense production and developing unique capabilities.

Hi muse..I do think PAF is utilizing its very limited budget intelligently.Taking a limited resource(quantity and quality) in a tightly defensive field with active AWCAS and SAM support PAF can give a big headache to any AF.Because attacking AF foremost has to think about its attrition into enemy air field and inducting a capable cost effective JF17 in big number is a nice idea.

Actually as the thread starter mentioned, I feel PAF and IAF gap if its today say 1:N, will be reduced much by 2015.But if u see from 2015 IAF will pick up so fast and u can say simultaneously will be inducting 3 types high end fighters(new MKI, LCA MK2, MMRCA) all with EASA and near 5th gen avionics and that also more than 5:1 in number of PAF high end fighters.I feel by 2020 with PAK-FA the gap will be same or more as it is now.

 

[muse]

I don't know if the Gap will be wider but it may be different - both IAF and PAF are evolving and incorporating some pretty unique capabilities, refueling and AEW and C - not to mention the kinds of ground to air defenses they are raising. So I really don't know about a wider gap but certainly, to the degree that there may be gaps, they will be different than today.

 

[fatman17]

I don't know if the Gap will be wider but it may be different - both IAF and PAF are evolving and incorporating some pretty unique capabilities, refueling and AEW and C - not to mention the kinds of ground to air defenses they are raising. So I really don't know about a wider gap but certainly, to the degree that there may be gaps, they will be different than today.

PAF will not be able to close the quantitative gap ever as the approved front-line squadrons strenght for the PAF is 20 and IAF is ~40.

PAF can definately close the 'qualatative' gap in the next 5-7 years as it ramps up with the JFT (various blocks), FC-20,the F-16C/D blk52 program and the F-16MLU program. couple this with BVR, HARM, JSOWs, A2A refuelling, AWACS and u have a small but hard hitting air-arm

 

[m52k85]

I found Mr Shebazi's assessments completely off the mark about the status of BVR in PAF back in 2008.
While he was quick to stress the importance of BVR combat, he would have done well with a bit more probing into the PAF.
Not only does a BVR capability exist, its operational on the least suspected of fighters as well.

9 years later can you disclose which?

 

[Imran Khan]

For months and months i have read, watched, various debates about South Asian air power changes taking place as we speak.

I have summarised this and come to my own conclusion.

In 1999 DURING KARGIL the PAF was at its weakest versis IAF this fact was demonsrated vivdley in the way the IAF where able to play a crucial part in the conflict with their bombing runs.

110 BVR capable MIG29M & MIRAGE2000H planes kept PAFS then 32 F16A/B at bay purely because the Vipers had only WVR weapons.
Since the war PAF have openly decalred they where in no position to take on the bvr equipped IAF.

Although the nos ratio was less than 2-1 in favour of IAF i believe india,s numerical superioity in 4 gen fighters of 3-1 with BVR esp gave iaf overall 3-1 superiority gap in 1999.

The su30 Flankers induction in 2000 and the mki in 2004 merely compounded this weakness up until now.

PAFs FIGHT BACK.

Has come in 3 forms. Frst the arrival of 32 F16/52s and upgrade to 42 F16 MLU = 76 Vipers by 2011.

Second the delivery of 50 Thunder kits for assemby by 2013 = 50 new bvr capable fighters from china and then 40 FC20 late 4gen fighters by 2015..

Third the introduction of AWACS by PAF via both Swden & china x 6 planes...

By 2015

6 AWACS

76 F16 52/MLU
50 Thunders MK1
40 FC20

166 BVR CAPABLE FIGHTERS will be a strong detterant to IAF

AT LEAST 250 more F7PG & mirage 5s WILL REMAIN in 2015....

Indian Threat in 2015....

To avoid argument on both PAF & ESP IAF accounts only definite orders are taken into account so MMRCA does not warrant mention until or if it happens. likewise follow on orders for Thunder have been excluded at this stage until the western upgrade or mk2 is offically ordered.

272 su30mki (120 in service already)
40 Tejas mk1 (ioc expected in 2011)
60 mig29 smt upgraded
51 mirage 2000-5 upgrade from H
70 jaguar darin 1/2
70 Mig27m

3 defo Phalcon Awacs

where are your 40 tejas its been 9 years now
mirages and jaguars went too low in numbers
mig-27 are out of show

and we kicked your air force once again

 

[undercover JIX]

where are your 40 tejas its been 9 years now
mirages and jaguars went too low in numbers
mig-27 are out of show

and we kicked your air force once again

Second the delivery of 50 Thunder kits for assemby by 2013 = 50 new bvr capable fighters from china and then 40 FC20 late 4gen fighters by 2015..

What this bharti is saying about thunders, and Teja is their own 1000000%

Ye bharti qoum kon se production line mae asseble hhotay hain jahan dimagh fanni kharabi ka shikar ho jata hai.

 

[Imran Khan]

What this bharti is saying about thunders, and Teja is their own 1000000%

Ye bharti qoum kon se production line mae asseble hhotay hain jahan dimagh fanni kharabi ka shikar ho jata hai.

he was top troll of this forum in 2020 his airforce was crossing milkyway galaxy and fighting aliens for capture planet X

 

[hussain0216]

where are your 40 tejas its been 9 years now
mirages and jaguars went too low in numbers
mig-27 are out of show

and we kicked your air force once again

If you want to understand the delusions of indians

Then look at their old posts

 

[undercover JIX]

he was top troll of this forum in 2020 his airforce was crossing milkyway galaxy and fighting aliens for capture planet X

ohhh may be that is the reason Thunder got lucky......sab larako viman gone through black holes..

 

[Imran Khan]

If you want to understand the delusions of indians

Then look at their old posts

ohhh may be that is the reason Thunder got lucky......sab larako viman gone through black holes..

still you guys were missing forgetting here . in 2020 indians will have
200 PAK FA
180 MMRCA
200 LCA

these threads were common in 2008 to 2015 paksitan can only reach india if we sale paksitan and buy jets remember the old good days ?

 

[undercover JIX]

still you guys were missing forgetting here . in 2020 indians will have
200 PAK FA
180 MMRCA
200 LCA

these threads were common in 2008 to 2015 paksitan can only reach india if we sale paksitan and buy jets remember the old good days ?

Shaikh Chilli bechara to apni qabar mae burnol dhoond raha ho ga....Indian Bhagats have outdone.

 

[Peaceful Civilian]

Yes India is looking for 126+ MMRCAs, but those will not come by 2015, in fact, the initial batch may be received by then IF IAF finalizes the deal this year. .

They didn't receive 126+ Rafales even after 10 year. They were just talking big. Also Tejas was supposed to receive foc & induction of 40 fighters till 2011 , It didn't happen as per plan.
As far as Su30Mki are concerned, IAF has no confidence in Su30Mki, they still prefer Rafale even after induction around 200 Su30Mki. They are still flying coffins such as mig21, upgrading it , using it to fill stop gap measure.
While in 10 years, we upgraded Old F16 A/b models to block 52 level, produced 96 Jf17s, bought Jordan f16s & upgraded in Turkey . So we did well in such limited budget.

 

[aliyusuf]

Operating the Su-30MKI has proven to be troublesome. Especially combat availability is just around 50 percent and operating costs are high. But why are they realizing this just now? If it was not optimum to their utility why did they keep on acquiring and inducting more? Also, if we go by some of their member's contention that this hue & cry is to go after the approval for additional Rafales, then the method in which they chose to do it reeks of unprofessionalism and short sightedness … because their apparent allusion towards the unsatisfactory state of the IAF is unwarranted and paints a very unfavorable picture of the current fleet (including Su-30) and pilots for not being able to teach the PAF a lesson in particular and Pakistan in general.

In my opinion, they just got carried away in the myth of their own capabilities and tried to bite off more than they could chew. All this is to create a smokescreen to hide the utter fallacy of that myth.

 

[Sine Nomine]

@Imran Khan storm force and rest of troll brig should be unbanned and called back using mail.

 

[litman]

su 30 was known as a beast in the sky.