My Question....Why PAF not invested in J10 project back in 15 or 20 years.

[Genghis khan1]

Hi,

Seems like you don't have understanding of differences between the 3rd gen and 4th gen a frame design---both of which have different flight parameters even though both aircrafts fly.

Super 7 or Mig 21 design had nothing to do with the JF17 program or design.

The size of the JF17 is the most important factor over here---the sabre was a larger aircraft---its nemesis the Gnat was a smaller aircraft---very difficult to observe---.

That is what was one of the features behind the design of the JF17---a smaller aircraft---presenting a stealthier option due to its size.

With the JF17---the Paf wanted to rub the US nose in the dirt---. It was about the ego of the Paf to show and strut around in the JF17.

Like I said before, I am just summarizing Shahid latif interview. 2nd para is my conclusion, of course he is not going to admit but after viewing his whole interview, it’s not hard to make this judgment why he didn’t simply scrape the JF-17 program. I am not blaming him, he served his country with honor. I think things could have been done better but again I am a layman relative to his position.

 

[Danish Moazzam]

Hi Lo Mix, we couldnt afford the Hi Hi mix.

Hi Vipers and Lo the Thunders. J-10 in house was a bite that was too big to bite. Budget was allocated and we were set for the Vipers when the 2008 Earth quake happened and funds had to be redirected.

With the Absolutely Not on F-16, a replacement had to be sought. Thunders are good but are limited in terms of weapon carrying capacity.

The writing was on the wall but PAF/Forces did not want to read it they kept putting in money in US program but thenail in the coffin was when the Turkish Heli with US engines are withheld, paid for Heli are witheld then there is no point of even thinking that the US will allow F-16-V purchase.

OTOH J-10 have developed beautifully and a very promising combat aircraft with no/minimum strings attached.

Now also you will see the 10's replacing the vipers eventually till the 5th gen AZM starts filling in

 

[Chak Bamu]

J10 is also a single engine fighter low cost means maintenance fuel etc

Better range, more hard points better agility etc

Why our PAF official missed that opportunity ?

Just imagine if we have invested instead of JF17 we would have 150 Jets now.

@MastanKhan @Quwa @SQ8

JF-17 has served us well. It has cost us much less to own, operate, & has earned us precious foreign exchange & strategic links too. So, before you cast doubts on its success, be sure to look beyond mere metrics. J-10 would not be such a beast if JF-17 had not tested some technologies (DSI, eg.) first. PAF's expertise would also not have been brought to bear to improve it to the extent that it did.

J-10 would cost more to own, operate, be a complete drain on foreign exchange reserves, & not allow us to offer to other countries for export. PAC would be in doldrums, & would not have developed its manufacturing expertise to the point that it has.

How can you say that PAF would have had 150 J-10 jets by now? Do you know how much these would have cost compared to JF-17? Do you know which models would have been inducted? Do you know how many jets would PLAAF needed to deploy before agreeing to exports to Pakistan? We have to look at these questions & their answers before we can discuss this any further.

 

[Deino]

J10 is also a single engine fighter low cost means maintenance fuel etc

Better range, more hard points better agility etc

Why our PAF official missed that opportunity ?

Just imagine if we have invested instead of JF17 we would have 150 Jets now.

@MastanKhan @Quwa @SQ8

The J-10 - even the A-variant - is and was never ever a low-cost fighter.

And IMO the most important reason was, that in the early years, the J-10 was a PLAAF high priority project with little to no interest to export it … and after Pakistan first took a look, it rejected the A variant for several reasons.

 

[Trango Towers]

Shahid latif carrier was dependent on the success of JF-17 because PAF under govt pressure was ready to scrap the project and he kept it alive, so Air chief told him, “either you will rise with this project or go down with it.”


So when J-10 came to his knowledge, despite being a superior project, he knew that after all the time and investment, scraping JF-17 now means end of his career.

This is Based on his own interview.

Sorry. I know shahid Lateef persoanlly. You wont find a more patriotic person. He resigned...and guess why?
The above is not true at all.

 

[Darth Vader]

When WOT started in start Pakistan was in good space with Uncle sam hence you got block50
J10 Wasnt a mature platform that offered any capabilities which were not already available on F16s or could not be later on added to JF 17
Pakistan needed a multi-role platform that offered capabilities close to the modern standards of 4th Gen but in price range was closer 3rd Gen platform and in large numbers, Unless Uncle Sam was fitting the bill Pakistan couldn't get 100s of F16 in one go, so sensible approach was chosen.

 

[siegecrossbow]

When the J-10A program started not even China knew that it was a guaranteed success due to the difficulties in making a medium weight 4th generation fighter aircraft. In fact there were many “backup plans” even in China should the program be a failure. There are several J-7 variants with canards and belly intake that were under development in the early 2000s. Luckily, they weren’t needed in the end.

 

[johncliu88]

There were a lot of postings on some Chinese websites regarding to the Super-7 project. Long story in short, Pak wanted a light weight & low cost fighter jet which would be better than J-7, also could be made in Pakistan locally.

 

[MastanKhan]

Like I said before, I am just summarizing Shahid latif interview. 2nd para is my conclusion, of course he is not going to admit but after viewing his whole interview, it’s not hard to make this judgment why he didn’t simply scrape the JF-17 program. I am not blaming him, he served his country with honor. I think things could have been done better but again I am a layman relative to his position.

Hi,

Bottomline is that he was given an order by his commanding officer to accomplish a task and he did so amicably to the best of his abilities.

There was too much pride and honor at stake, specially when the chief died in such a tragic accident at first and then threats from the ambassador, in true pakistani colors, Shahid Latif ploughed right thru the prject right to the end

 

[Raider 21]

The strength in partnering with China is China can always deliver, India partnered with Russia in some joint development weapon projects and ended up getting nothing after throwing in billions of dollars.

It was not only that, Chinese government were begging to have fighter exports with Pakistan as a start. Their success with fighter aircraft exports hasn't been very good lately. They were also keen on putting it on loans, Pak leadership said no to that.

Plus PAF cannot compromise training standards and requirements like the A-5 program, their requirements had to be met to meet their demands.

 

[Chak Bamu]

It was not only that, Chinese government were begging to have fighter exports with Pakistan as a start. Their success with fighter aircraft exports hasn't been very good lately. They were also keen on putting it on loans, Pak leadership said no to that.

Plus PAF cannot compromise training standards and requirements like the A-5 program, their requirements had to be met to meet their demands.

Begging? Pardon me, but is your choice of words right?

Where were PAF standards when Chinese offered copies of Mig-19, A-5 being a modified Mig-19?

The first batch of J-6 was given free by China when Pakistan's GDP ($140) was 40% more than that of China ($100). I would be careful with words if I were you.

 

[Trailer23]

Oh God, this Topic again in the form of an actual Topic being created.

Haven't we already discussed the sh!t out of this one on numerous occasions?!!

[Yaar, ab mil gaey hain - aur mazeed a rahay hain]

#LetItGo
#DropIt
#MoveOn​

 

[Raider 21]

Begging? Pardon me, but is your choice of words right?

Where were PAF standards when Chinese offered copies of Mig-19, A-5 being a modified Mig-19?

The first batch of J-6 was given free by China when Pakistan's GDP ($140) was 40% more than that of China ($100). I would be careful with words if I were you.

Just quoting some of the fliers who used to fly it. They could be mistaken.