My Question ? If JF 17 is capable enough why we are purchasing even used F16

[Mughal-Prince]

The F16 is BY FAR the best Air to air combat aircraft TO DATE.
It even beats the F35 Lighting in dog fights:
The F-35 Can't Beat The Plane It's Replacing In A Dogfight: Report
US latest F-35 stealth jet is beaten in dogfight by F-16 from 1970s | Daily Mail Online

Our JF17s are no match for the F16s. Sure we can replace the F7PG with JF17s, but replacing the F16 is a very bad idea.

??? Kon ho bhai ??? Indeed its one of the good available platform but JFT is evolving and F-16 has well crossed its expansion and evolution.
That F-35 thingy is some what a new drama marketing strategy for phasing out F-16s nothing much.
F-35 with its full sensor suit it will squash F-16s like a bug.

 

[CHI RULES]

we should not go for only one training exercise results to measure performance of any plat form, firstly in real war scenario dogfight will start when F16 is able to come near F35. However if common sense prevails then F35 with next gen radar , more stealth and hitech Ammo shall be able to counter F16 in BVR or near to BVR so dogfight may not be required in case of USA scenario.

Though so far the JF17 engine is with less thrust yet we miss point that the body weight of JF17 is also lighter. The JF17 in recent past has shown it's maneuverability well in areal displays,

Further now Chinese are also having strong R&D and their tech is quite enough to counter any western plains, especially J10b, J11b & J16 jets armed with SD10 and AESA radars along with other techs.

 

[Last Samuri]

My understanding the thunder lacks any form of helmet mounting sight at present.

No western weapons intergration and a twr of well under one ...

Best missiles are not about range boys get that out of your heads.

Best missiles are about diffrent seekers different kemetic performance like speed agility and fire control and radar guidance to target.

I will take rdy Rcs radar with mica any day over a Chinese anyday

 

[ACE OF THE AIR]

we should not go for only one training exercise results to measure performance of any plat form, firstly in real war scenario dogfight will start when F16 is able to come near F35. However if common sense prevails then F35 with next gen radar , more stealth and hitech Ammo shall be able to counter F16 in BVR or near to BVR so dogfight may not be required in case of USA scenario.

Though so far the JF17 engine is with less thrust yet we miss point that the body weight of JF17 is also lighter. The JF17 in recent past has shown it's maneuverability well in areal displays,

Further now Chinese are also having strong R&D and their tech is quite enough to counter any western plains, especially J10b, J11b & J16 jets armed with SD10 and AESA radars along with other techs.

Over the years one has seen many times when US has claimed about BVR weapons...
If we go back to the Vietnam War we can see why was the F4 a duck...It relied on missile technology where as when it came up in dog fight mode it was no way to see the other aircraft due to the design. Then it also lacked a gun...

Israel Air Force fired BVR missile on Syrian Aircraft but nothing happened those missiles flew past without hitting any aircraft.

 

[Irfan Baloch]

India has SU-30 and MIG-29 and Mirage 2000 still buying Rafale. USA has and produces F-16 and F-15 and F-18 and few others and also Russia and many other countries.

best answer

My Question ? If JF 17 is capable enough why we are purchasing even used F16

F-16 is a world proven platform and best success story for decades and Pakistan is one of the early users. it has everything now while JF-17 is just getting there in terms of its avionics and while the limited production is working full time there is still more demand than supply.

 

[my2cents]

Used F-16s don't need to have a wait time....they come ready and can be absorbed very very quickly. JF-17 on the other hand is restricted by its production rate. So it is better to have jets now than later.

What's the shelf life of a used F16's? Are you not jeopardising your pilots by buying used jets?

 

[Donatello]

What's the shelf life of a used F16's? Are you not jeopardising your pilots by buying used jets?

F-16s have a typical life of 4000 hours which can be pushed to 8000 hours very easily with the MLU updates...or mid-life structural updates as they are called. 8000 hours translates to about 40 years of use at a rate of 200 hours flying per year. With proper maintenance you can push it well beyond that as recently demonstrated. So if a used aircraft has 2000 hours remaining from 8000 hrs, then i have 10 years of life left. But sometimes some airforces will push the aircraft beyond the average, like consuming 300hrs in a year.
As long as you follow the proper maintenance and don't jugarofy your work, pilots are safe. Are you even remotely trying to suggest that new planes don't crash and kill pilots?
I mean, you purchased shyt loads of Mig21s and Mig23s/27s?
How is their safety record?

 

[That Guy]

I know you are hurt, because I catch your foreign friend with simmering hate for Pakistan.
Well I say you are completely wrong... because I categorically wrote 'brand new F-16' whereas Jordanian airframes were decades old.
Now come back when Pakistan will be buying 'BRAND NEW F-16'

You're just playing semantics now, we both know exactly what you meant. You meant F-16s period, the brand new part just meant that it would be new to Pakistan.

Don't insult me.

 

[OTTOMAN]

You're just playing semantics now, we both know exactly what you meant. You meant F-16s period, the brand new part just meant that it would be new to Pakistan.

Don't insult me.

Its your fault if you didn't bother to clarify before jumping the guns.
I just return your words back to you.

I will take rdy Rcs radar with mica any day over a Chinese anyday

Mica you trust because it has been once evaluated and shortlisted by PAF.
How many planes have you shoot down with RCS? and the stock you bought is outdated.
With Chinese, if you meant SD10 than rest assure, it has been evaluated against AIM120C and was a match, but it is not available for sale to you.

 

[MastanKhan]

Hi,

It is all about integration-----. So-----how many years it takes to integrate and aircraft-----a FIRST time endeavor and limited resources---a long long time----so where are those who used to NEGATE these comments of mine----.

With aesa----the BLK 3 will be superior to the F 16 because of the better radar---but then the F 16 has other assets that will balance out the difference----the AIM bvr missile---the day night pods---the LOITER TIME-----very low maintenance and a very low downtime----.

 

[Last Samuri]

PAF has already tried to upgrade thunder with French radars and mica missles .

The cost of over $2 billion to add French kits to 100 thunders had the PAF kill the conversation very quickly.

no matter how you dress this up the f16 remains the cutting edge of paf.

your thunders are work horses. medium tech in large nos.

sd10 bvr may have legs but it lacks the stealth design, multiple seekers , nez, and guidance technology in the mica.

French weapons are absolutely lethal.

chinease complete unknown

 

[That Guy]

Its your fault if you didn't bother to clarify before jumping the guns.
I just return your words back to you.

Not really, you just chose to use really stupid logic.

 

[Donatello]

Hi,

It is all about integration-----. So-----how many years it takes to integrate and aircraft-----a FIRST time endeavor and limited resources---a long long time----so where are those who used to NEGATE these comments of mine----.

With aesa----the BLK 3 will be superior to the F 16 because of the better radar---but then the F 16 has other assets that will balance out the difference----the AIM bvr missile---the day night pods---the LOITER TIME-----very low maintenance and a very low downtime----.

Sir BVR is not F-16 specific anymore......SD-10B is slated to be better than the AIM120C5....and BLK III will hopefully have a proper IRST so you can be sure that HOBS capability will be there.

 

[my2cents]

F-16s have a typical life of 4000 hours which can be pushed to 8000 hours very easily with the MLU updates...or mid-life structural updates as they are called. 8000 hours translates to about 40 years of use at a rate of 200 hours flying per year. With proper maintenance you can push it well beyond that as recently demonstrated. So if a used aircraft has 2000 hours remaining from 8000 hrs, then i have 10 years of life left. But sometimes some airforces will push the aircraft beyond the average, like consuming 300hrs in a year.
As long as you follow the proper maintenance and don't jugarofy your work, pilots are safe. Are you even remotely trying to suggest that new planes don't crash and kill pilots?
I mean, you purchased shyt loads of Mig21s and Mig23s/27s?
How is their safety record?

I admit Mig21's have worst safety records but they are being operated in huge quantities around the world. They have proved their mantle in numerous wars including 1971 and have been in operational use for almost five decades.

How do they compare to F16's?

C.J. Knapp and R. Johnson revealed that during a 19-year period from 1975-93 there were 190 Class A – or major – mishaps involving 204 F-16s and 217 aircrew.

Compared to this, India’s MiG-21 has a much better record.

 

[Last Samuri]

If the thunder is better than the falcons as some of you keep telling us

Why are you buying used half battered second hand falcons. Which in turn cost money to upgrade.

Usa weapons even have threat of sanctions.

Yet you people persist in falcons.

Don't bother to explain I already know why you buy sanction threatenf falcons over the superior thunders.