My problems to India-reply to the affront from Salim(a member of Pakistan defence)

[jefmq]

fistly,I will quote salim's words entirely,everyone can read in http://www.defence.pk/forums/strate...es/11142-chinese-pm-visits-bangladesh-24.html.

Absolutely.You have to jump to whatever the CCP has to say.
Those who did not want to were purged in the Great Leap Forward, Cultural Revolution and the Tienanmen Square in modern times (1989).
Remember them?
It does not matter whether you are a member of even the Falun Gongo whatever.
All that matters is that you have to jump to at the crack of the whip of the CCP or else.......Tienanmen or re-education! Heard of the Human Rights chaps ******* in the Re-education camps, euphemism for prisons?
Every nations has problems and it is not just China that God has given the problems. Why live in a fairy tale world? You think only China requires a strong govt in the world. India and Pakistan have coalition govt and it is besotted with problems and are not what one understands to be strong govts. Do you think Indians and Pakistani want weak govts? Which world are you living in? Don't be self centred and think only of China and then cover up ruthlessness of the CCP by sitting in the corner and moaning and weeping and calling the world bad.
Who do you think can solve our problems in India and Pakistan? China? Obviously not. So, what's so unique that you are mentioning about China?
And you want to reconstruct Vietnam, Taiwan, Tibet, Xinjiang, Darfur et al. The US does it openly and you do it underhand. That is the difference.
May be you won't believe,most chinese support the CCP even though many people didn't endorse with CCP's policies!
When was there democracy in China?
Democracy (translated into Chinese as " minzhu ," or "people-as-masters") is not a concept inherent in Chinese culture or political philosophy. In fact, it is in complete opposition to Confucian ideology, which stresses harmony and obedience.

As the reply to you,please allow me to ask you some questions:
I'm sorry that I never observed you are a "a san"(now that you know "democracy"pronounced "minzhu"in chinese,I think you can understand what's the meanning of "a san") .

actually I think the exist of India is just an error!your government cost most money at arms race but not at rescue thousands of millions of proles!

I hope you can answer my following questions:

1.During the China-India war in last century,China win the war compeletly even though your Indian have the support from Russia and America.Why?to my opinion,your indian is just suit for dancing,and beg!

2.As is known to all,India was(please attention,it's "was")one of the four culture ancient countries,but,to the modern world,where is the India's culture?what is the indian culture?can you tell me?maybe you can't answer,because when you were born,you were told to study english,maybe your parents also didn't know what's the India's history!

3.your indian told the world India is one of the strongest country,please tell me the reason.your huge population?or your tiny GDP?I don't know how the words were spoken out from your country's mouth!A country without itself's cultrue can be a strongest country?dreaming!

4.one thing can make the entire indian feel shame is that there is no indian player have ever win even one golden in the Olympic game!why?1.4billion people=1.4billion rubbish!

5.rely on your huge people number,India win the second Pakistan-India war lastly even though my Pakistan brothers seriously hitted.But your India government was scared when China raised up his crabstick,why?

6.Never told me your software industry.It's just epiboly!because yourself can't write the really codes!

7.do you know why America want to deep the relation between India and America?Is it really because your India is the biggest"democracy country"?No!To Bush,the only use of your India is to restrict the rebound of China! when it is needed,Bush is very glad to see 1.4billion stupid pigs which hand with guns to fight for his "democracy"!

Comparing with China in every industry,which one can you indian can win china?sorry,I remembered one,yoga,it's the only one culture that existed!

 

[shrivatsa]

amazing linguistic ability you have

 

[Flintlock]

An astonishing display of arrogance and ignorance.

 

[Imran Khan]

our indian brothers don't have answer ?

 

[Flintlock]

our indian brothers don't have answer ?

More like his rant isn't worth replying to.

First let him get the basic facts right, then I'll consider replying.

 

[Myth_buster_1]

i understand how u feel, this forum is hijacked by Indians who act so moderate in the eyes of PDF mods..

 

[Spring Onion]

amazing linguistic ability you have

please dear dont force me to post about the Indianized English or to say Hinglish.

 

[Always Neutral]

please dear dont force me to post about the Indianized English or to say Hinglish.

Good one jana. half the times when I call my bank I cant understand what the guy on the other end is speaking.

Regards

 

[Logic note]

fistly,I will quote salim's words entirely,everyone can read in http://www.defence.pk/forums/strate...es/11142-chinese-pm-visits-bangladesh-24.html.

.During the China-India war in last century,China win the war compeletly even though your Indian have the support from Russia and America.Why?to my opinion,your indian is just suit for dancing,and beg!

No because China Backstabed India ..
Indian and Chinese Had Signed Panchsheel . while China built its Army with a Malice India was unaware ..
Lot of water has passed through that bridge my dear friend ..
India has realized that backstabbing Chinese Cant be trusted

As is known to all,India was(please attention,it's "was")one of the four culture ancient countries,but,to the modern world,where is the India's culture?what is the indian culture?can you tell me?maybe you can't answer,because when you were born,you were told to study english,maybe your parents also didn't know what's the India's history!

WE know our culture and that’s why we follow Democracy and secularism ..after seeing your gibberish I shall advice you to please worry about your culture .. because everyone knows what china follows .

Learning another Language is sign of mature culture only narrow minded societies are scared of learning .

one thing can make the entire indian feel shame is that there is no indian player have ever win even one golden in the Olympic game!why?1.4billion people=1.4billion rubbish!

India has won 8 Olympic gold in Hockey , you ignorant

rely on your huge people number,India win the second Pakistan-India war lastly even though my Pakistan brothers seriously hitted.But your India government was scared when China raised up his crabstick,why?

Chinese Gibberish

.Never told me your software industry.It's just epiboly!because yourself can't write the really codes!

Excuse me ??.. try framing this sentence again properly

do you know why America want to deep the relation between India and America?Is it really because your India is the biggest"democracy country"?No!To Bush,the only use of your India is to restrict the rebound of China! when it is needed,Bush is very glad to see 1.4billion stupid pigs which hand with guns to fight for his "democracy"!
Comparing with China in every industry,which one can you indian can win china?sorry,I remembered one,yoga,it's the only one culture that existed!

industry ??..you are just a source of cheap labour to produce cheap and low quality product for West .. Party is taking you for a ride .

shame for your entire India!1.4 billion bitches

Do you represent Chinese Cultural ethos ? if you do then you embarrass millions of your countrymen

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

fistly,I will quote salim's words entirely,everyone can read in [

url]http://www.defence.pk/forums/strategic-geopolitical-issues/11142-chinese-pm-visits-bangladesh-24.html[/url].



As the reply to you,please allow me to ask you some questions:
I'm sorry that I never observed you are a "a san"(now that you know "democracy"pronounced "minzhu"in chinese,I think you can understand what's the meanning of "a san") .

actually I think the exist of India is just an error!your government cost most money at arms race but not at rescue thousands of millions of proles!

That is where you are sadly mistaken chum.

In the Tsunami, while others took aid from foreign nations, as your are doing, including from India (and I don't grudge that since all human beings are same the world over, it is just that the nationalities are not), India did not take aid and worked on its own for rescue and reconstruction. India, inspite of her own huge losses in the tsunami, sent assistance to Indonesia as also to Sri Lanks. So, get your facts right.

I hope you can answer my following questions:

1.During the China-India war in last century,China win the war compeletly even though your Indian have the support from Russia and America.Why?to my opinion,your indian is just suit for dancing,and beg!

Mistaken chum.

First of all , India got no aid from USSR or USA.

Second, you don't understand warfare. China withdrew from NEFA since there were no roads and China could not have sustained herself and would have eventually been thrown out.

In Aksai Chin, where there were roads and the terrain was flat and forces including artillery could move, China did not move out.

In the Nathu La incident on 11th September 1967, China got a bloody nose as also on 1 October 1967 at the Chola incident Chinese were sorted out and they had to leave duly defeated at Pt 15450.

The IA that you face today are no pushover as 1962, where they were rushed in summer clothing and .303 Bolt Actiion rifles.

Regarding begging, you begged and got USSR assistance with your defence forces and other requirements.

2.As is known to all,India was(please attention,it's "was")one of the four culture ancient countries,but,to the modern world,where is the India's culture?what is the indian culture?can you tell me?maybe you can't answer,because when you were born,you were told to study english,maybe your parents also didn't know what's the India's history!

By ranting and tearing your hair, it doesn't mean you know what you write. Are you jealous that we not only know our mother tongue, but also the National Language as also ENGLISH?

By indicating your total ignorance and lack of intelligence, it does not mean that we do not have a culture, history or a civilisation.

I was not told to study English. In a democracy, no one can force you. But the very fact that you write ''told'', indicates the slavery that the CCP subjects you to, with their dictates and makes you robotic and sub humans. Thus, when you come into real civilisation like this forum, you are so shocked, that you rant, Wail, moan and beat your chest and want to pass it as Gospel Truth!!

3

.your indian told the world India is one of the strongest country,please tell me the reason.your huge population?or your tiny GDP?I don't know how the words were spoken out from your country's mouth!A country without itself's cultrue can be a strongest country?dreaming!

No Indian told the world that India is one of the world's strongest country/ It is the world telling Indian so. And anyway, it does not impress me. As far as your new found wealth, it is US money that is funnel your pride. And it is making you corrupt and your CCP is running scared.

Read this:

Hu Jintao Battles the CCP's Crisis of Confidence

By Willy Lam
Minister of Science and Technology, Wan Gang
The Chinese Communist Party (CCP) is undergoing its worst crisis of confidence since the Tiananmen Square crackdown 18 years ago. While President and CCP General Secretary Hu Jintao is currently preoccupied with the means by which to consolidate the power of his faction at the upcoming 17th Party Congress, a loss of faith in the party as well as a dramatic decline in probity and old-style "combat-readiness" has hit the nation's 71 million party members. Yet, even as a number of retired cadres have proposed relatively radical solutions to these woes, such as the suggestion that the CCP gradually transform itself into a Western European-style socialist democratic party (SDP), Hu has instead chosen to implement Maoist-era ideological campaigns to revive the party's fortunes.

Party morale has deteriorated to such a degree that even official mouthpieces have admitted that the quality of CCP members has declined to new lows. The journal Qiushi ("Seeking Truth") noted earlier this month that some within the party "believe in gods and ghosts rather than Marxism-Leninism and they put their faith in personal [connections] rather than the collective." The journal also stated that for an unspecified number of CCP officials and members, "their loyalty regarding the party's nature, goals, programs and road-maps has become attenuated," while others had become "decadent and degenerated, and [have engaged in] corrupt and illegal activities" (Qiushi, May 2007). The recent bullish growth in the Shanghai and Shenzhen stock markets has reinforced the mentality—prevalent among CCP members as well as among the public—of "looking at everything with only money in mind." Moreover, the party's disciplinary and anti-graft offices are investigating a record number of cases in which official funds have been diverted toward "playing the bourses"—the crime allegedly committed by former Shanghai Party Secretary Chen Liangyu and his associates.

President Hu's response to this crisis of faith and confidence has been to recycle ideological movements formulated by his large group of political commissars and propaganda specialists. In 2004 and 2005, cadres of all levels were required to sit through weekly ideological classes on "how to uphold the advanced nature of a Communist." The latest indoctrination sessions have centered on the so-called "education about the Three Consciousness." This is a reference to Hu's dictum that party cadres and members must raise "their consciousness of living in dangerous times, their sense of duty as public servants, and the virtue of thriftiness." While talking to officials in Beijing and the provinces, Hu has stressed that party members must "further boost their awareness of [impending] hardships and dangers" and that they should "exemplify the spirit of 'plain living and hard struggle'" (Xinhua, March 9). Indeed, during his four-and-a-half-year-old administration, Hu has conducted more propaganda campaigns than did former President Jiang Zemin—usually deemed more conservative than Hu—during his 13-year tenure.

Hu and Premier Wen Jiabao have also tried to purify the party by introducing several regulations with regard to moral standards, anti-corruption practices and politically correct behavior. For example, numerous statutes and codes have been issued forbidding the spouses, children and relatives of senior cadres from going into business. Late last month, Wen unveiled yet another set of penalties for cadres and civil servants who have run afoul of not only the law but also commonly accepted moral precepts. According to the new regulations, officials who have failed to render support to their ailing parents, or who have acquired "second wives" will be censured, and in serious cases, sacked (Zhongguo Xinwenshe, April 30). Earlier stipulations had already barred party cadres and civil servants from gambling, visiting nightclubs and bathhouses and worshipping in temples or churches.

The apparent failure of Hu and Wen to improve the quality and rectitude of CCP cadres and members has resulted in bold calls for the party to make a clean break with the past. The retired vice-president of the People's University, Xie Tao, created a stir in the spring when he noted in a party journal that "the CCP's only way out is through [embracing] democratic socialism" of the West European variety. "Only constitutional democracy can fundamentally solve the ruling party's problems of corruption and graft," he wrote in the respected journal Yanhuang Chunqiu [Across the Ages]. "Only democratic socialism can save China." Xie cites Switzerland as a model for a largely egalitarian society with adequate welfare benefits as well as full protection of the rights of workers and farmers (Yanhuang Chunqiu, February 2007). After all, the central plank of the Hu-Wen administration's "putting people first" platform is precisely raising the socioeconomic standards of the country's disadvantaged classes, a goal that has remained illusory so far.

In a similar vein, Chairman Mao's one-time secretary Li Rui has openly called for the adoption of Scandinavian-style democratic socialism. Li, one of President Hu's early mentors, said he agreed with late patriarch Deng Xiaoping that most party members were not even sure what socialism meant. "Yet we can be sure of one thing," Li wrote recently. "Socialism cannot do without democracy; and it cannot do without rule of law" (Wenzhai Bao, February 17). Like-minded professors and retired officials have also "resurrected" the sayings of liberal icons such as deceased CCP General Secretary Zhao Ziyang and the former head of the CCP Propaganda Department Lu Dingyi. Articles and talks by Zhao and Lu relating to comprehensive political reform, or at least allowing the people to speak freely, are being circulated on websites or blogs that have eluded the censors thus far.

Xie, Li and other liberal intellectuals have quite a few things in common. First, they are mostly second- and third-generation cadres who joined the CCP much earlier than did either Hu or Wen. While Hu has used draconian methods to prevent the pro-Western views of young or middle-aged intellectuals from emerging into the public sphere for debate, the president is forced to tolerate these occasional outbursts from the Long March veterans. Moreover, these progressive elders are not organized politically. They are not linked with political organizations or non-governmental organizations abroad, thus denying the authorities any pretext to silence them.

Therefore, to stem the tide of "bourgeois liberalization," the propaganda and censorship establishment under senior Politburo member Li Changchun has given carte blanche to the party's "leftists," or remnant Maoists, to attack the likes of Xie and Li Rui. This is despite the fact that Hu and Li Changchun had clashed with the leftists only last year—and used means that included the closing down of a few of their websites—when these arch-conservatives attacked the Hu-Wen leadership for allowing private and foreign capital to purchase state assets and "exploit" Chinese workers. Since Xie's article was released in February, leftist research institutes associated with the former director of the CCP Propaganda Department Deng Liqun have held four conferences to savage Xie for his "wholesale betrayal of Marxism and socialism." The conservatives have also rallied behind prominent individuals, such as the former director of the CCP Organization Department, Zhang Quanjing. In a widely circulated article, Zhang charged that Xie had "openly gone against the state constitution and the party charter." Zhang added that Xie's article had made not only "political mistakes," but also errors not befitting the former professor's status as a senior retired cadre (Gongnong Zhisheng, April 9).
Yet, to convince the world of the CCP's pro-reform inclinations, the Hu-Wen team has rushed through various measures in the period leading up to the 17th Congress in the fall. Last month, party and state authorities appointed Professor Wan Gang, a non-CCP member, to serve as the minister of science and technology (Shanghai Daily, April 28). This is the first time since the 1950s that a non-party member has been given a ministerial-level job. The leadership has also elevated several so-called "returnees," or Chinese with Western post-graduate degrees, to top positions. Wan received his doctorate in Germany, and the new Foreign Minister Yang Jiechi studied in London for a few years. Moreover, through calculated leaks to the foreign and Hong Kong media, members of Hu's personal think tanks have suggested the possibility of significant political reforms at the 17th Congress. There has been speculation, for instance, that the size of both the Politburo and the Central Committee would be slightly expanded to accommodate more sectors of the population, especially the fast-rising business community.

Liberal intellectuals who are disappointed by President Hu's perennial foot-dragging on reform point to the fact that a few years before he became the head of the CCP, the then vice-president had demonstrated considerable interest in the socialist democratic party (SDP) model. Hu, who was also the president of the Central Party School at the time, had assembled a team of researchers to study the ideology and organization of a number of European SDPs. A retired party cadre noted that Jiang Zemin, Hu and current Vice President Zeng Qinghong have toyed with the idea of borrowing individual elements of the SDP model. Discussion on this topic among members of official think tanks petered out by 2003, however, and Hu is known to have privately scolded the likes of Xie Tao and Li Rui for "adding confusion to the political climate." Political observers fear that if Hu and his associates remain single-mindedly focused on boosting the political fortunes of their own factions, the largest and richest political party in the world would degenerate into a hodge-podge collection of cabals interested only in power, perks and prerogatives, and little else.
From China Brief
Volume 7, Issue 10 (May 16, 2007)
Published by Jamestown Foundation

4.one thing can make the entire indian feel shame is that there is no indian player have ever win even one golden in the Olympic game!why?1.4billion people=1.4billion rubbish!

True.

We are a democracy and we cannot take children from their parents and then start training them as one can do in China and as one could do in USSR and East European countries.

In a totalitarian dictatorship anything can be achieved. The Communist Party just has to give the orders and the people damn well obey.

See how the CCP can move people away from their hearth and home to get their way:

Since its establishment in 1949, the government of China has implemented a range of measures to control population movements within and outside of its territory. Many migration controls accompanied the policies of the centrally-planned economy and have evolved over the past few decades. They were particularly effective before the open door and economic reform policies launched in 1979, and movements of China's population had been largely involuntary. Many mass population movements were forced under government relocation plans designed to advance China's economic and social development. However, economic reforms since the late 1970s have initiated major socioeconomic changes in both urban and rural areas, with labor migration having become the most important type of population movement in China, especially toward the more developed coastal regions.

In Pakistan, they have not been able to get the Kalbagh Dam going because they are a democracy and the people are just not budging. Compare that with your Three Gorges.

As different as chalk and cheese.

5.rely on your huge people number,India win the second Pakistan-India war lastly even though my Pakistan brothers seriously hitted.But your India government was scared when China raised up his crabstick,why?

How India wins wars is not really of concern.

What is of concern is that you shout from the rooftops of your undying love for Pakistan and Pakistani brothers, but when the chips are down, you abandon your friend!!

Who is scared of China?

Enough has been done to indicate that it is not the 1962 Army that you are facing.

6.Never told me your software industry.It's just epiboly!because yourself can't write the really codes!

I don't brag.

Who cares about the software industry. If they are good, they will prove themselves.

No, they can't write the codes. And maybe they have the money to hire Chinese to write the code. Enough billionaire around in India to do so I am told.

7.do you know why America want to deep the relation between India and America?Is it really because your India is the biggest"democracy country"?No!To Bush,the only use of your India is to restrict the rebound of China! when it is needed,Bush is very glad to see 1.4billion stupid pigs which hand with guns to fight for his "democracy"!

It sure has mortified you.

Do refrain from using cuss word like pigs to describe a Nation since I believe it is against the forums rule.

Be advised that should you resort to it again, I can give you back and more. Got that, Comrade (Tongzhi).

Comparing with China in every industry,which one can you indian can win china?sorry,I remembered one,yoga,it's the only one culture that existed!

We are not here to win.

We are here to do our job and reap the harvest as it comes our way.

One a person or a nation with a high sense of insecurity requires to highlight their achievements to assuage their own fears.

You are proving that!

shame for your entire India!1.4 billion bitches!

Careful, old chap, in your selection of words.

It is only the defeated and the fear crazed, who use language of the gutter. Not people who have some civilisation to talk about!



As far as my post is concerned on which you have opened this thread, do be good enough, my man, where I am wrong. I shall be delighted to know.

That you have been touched to the quick with your irrelevant and fact devoid rant and your uncivilised language (inspite of your claiming to have a great civilisation) indicates that it is the truth and you have nothing constructive to offer!

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

our indian brothers don't have answer ?

Check my post.

It will please you since you love to observe a fight from outside the ring!

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

please dear dont force me to post about the Indianized English or to say Hinglish.

Please do.

And watch the TV channels of both the nations!

Should you desire open up a new thread and we will post the posts of members of all countries and judge!

 

[Spring Onion]

In the Tsunami, while others took aid from foreign nations, as your are doing, including from India (and I don't grudge that since all human beings are same the world over, it is just that the nationalities are not), India did not take aid and worked on its own for rescue and reconstruction. India, inspite of her own huge losses in the tsunami, sent assistance to Indonesia as also to Sri Lanks. So, get your facts right.

Ah brigadier lets see why India refused aid



Why has India blocked foreign tsunami aid to the Nicobar and Andaman islands?
By Parwini Zora and Daniel Woreck
25 January 2005
Use this version to print | Send this link by email | Email the author

The remote Andaman and Nicobar group suffered a devastating blow from the December 26 tsunami. The low-lying and mostly uninhabited chain of 572 islands in the Bay of Bengal was the closest Indian territory to the epicentre of the massive earthquake. As well as being swamped by the sea, it was hit by a series of substantial aftershocks.

The official death toll is now more than 1,800 but over 5,500 people are still missing, presumed dead. While the southern state of Tamil Nadu had the largest number of Indian deaths in absolute terms, the population of the Andaman and Nicobar islands is just 356,000 and is proportionately the hardest hit. An estimated 288,000 people, or 80 percent of the total population, have been affected.

Nearly 12,000 survivors from the 38 inhabited islands were evacuated to the Andaman capital of Port Blair. By January 4, however, the exodus had to be halted as relief camps in the town had filled to overflowing. Most of Port Blair’s schools were overcrowded with refugees while others were forced to live under plastic sheeting.

An estimated 40,000 people are taking shelter in relief camps scattered across the archipelago. The camps are under the supervision of local authorities who are installed directly by the central government in New Delhi and come under the supervision of the Indian military.

The Indian government claims to have organised adequate emergency relief for the stricken islands. The survivors, however, complain of delays and a lack of medical care, and have criticised the manner in which the Indian military has conducted relief operations. The government has not only ignored the grievances, but refused all offers of assistance from foreign aid groups.

The only international organisation allowed to operate across the archipelago is UNICEF. Foreign journalists and aid workers have been confined to Port Blair and not permitted to travel to any of the outlying islands. International aid groups have been permitted to provide assistance to local organisations, but even these activities have been restricted.

Just over a week ago, International Red Cross officials accused authorities of hijacking aid being sent to survivors. The Red Cross alleged that supplies being shipped to Port Blair were being seized at the docks, apparently for distribution by government agencies.

According to a BBC report, “The Andaman-Nicobar administration is determined to prevent foreign voluntary groups from joining the relief effort, even if it is by proxy.”

The obvious question arises: why such sensitivity to a foreign aid presence in the Andamans?

From the outset, New Delhi has insisted that India did not require international aid. Indian Foreign Secretary Shyam Suran told the press: “In terms of not accepting foreign assistance, we feel we have all the resources to cope... our response to this disaster was very prompt and effective.”

In fact, the government went further. In line with its ambitions to become a major regional power, New Delhi rushed medical and technical aid to Sri Lanka, the Maldives and the Indonesian province of Aceh. In its largest ever peacetime operation—“Operation Sea Wave”—the Indian navy dispatched 32 ships to the stricken countries in the space of just one week.

During a visit to Calcutta, Prime Minister Manmohan Singh commented: “Our response [to the tsunami] was not shaped by false pride or by chauvinism. We are happy to be part of the global community and to work with it.” He nevertheless boasted that “India could demonstrate to the world its ability and capability to stand on its own feet”.

But as the inadequacy of relief efforts in southern India surfaced in the media, New Delhi was compelled to modify its stance. While still rejecting direct aid from foreign countries, the Singh government declared that it was willing to accept financial aid from the UN, the Asian Development Bank, the World Bank and the International Monetary Fund. Various aid groups and non-government organisations, foreign and India, were already providing some assistance.


Sensitive military bases

In the Nicobar and Andaman group, however, the tight restrictions remain in force. While the Indian government has pointed to the need to protect the aboriginal tribes, its overriding concern is to preserve the secrecy surrounding Indian military bases on the islands. As Suba Chandran, an analyst at the Delhi-based Institute of Peace and Conflict Studies, told the BBC: “It is a Cold War mentality. India is sensitive about its military installations in the Andamans.”

At its southernmost point, the archipelago is just 150km from Indonesia’s Sumatra. The northernmost point is less than 50km from the Coco Islands which belong to Burma. The islands are in an ideal position to monitor shipping through the Malacca Strait, which is a key route from the Middle East to North East Asia and the broader Asian Pacific region. A substantial proportion of world trade, including vital oil supplies to Japan and China, passes through the strait. US military strategists have long regarded the sea-lane as a crucial “choke point” that could be used to cut off vital supplies in the event of a conflict, with China in particular.

The area is the focus for growing rivalry. In an effort to protect its supply routes, China has strengthened ties with Burma and is reportedly developing naval bases and electronic surveillance facilities in the country. India, which has been developing a close strategic alliance with the US, has used the Nicobar and Andaman islands to “counter” the Chinese presence in Burma and other Asian countries.

In 2001, India spent an estimated $US2 billion to establish the Andaman Nicobar Command, jointly run by the army, navy, air force and the coast guard, to preside over its military operations in the archipelago. The Indian airforce has a substantial presence, including a fighter squadron and a unit of helicopters. The army was to station a full division or 8,000 soldiers in the islands. Surveillance and monitoring stations have been established along the entire archipelago.

Since winning last year’s elections, Congress has continued the overall military expansion set in train by the previous Bharatya Janatha Party (BJP)-led coalition. In last year’s budget, defence spending was boosted by another 27 percent to a total of $US17.63 billion or 2.5 percent of the country’s Gross Domestic Product (GDP). The hardware to be purchased includes three French Scorpion submarines, 115 multi-purpose fighters, three Phalcon airborne warning radar systems and a Russian aircraft carrier.

The Congress-led government did not hesitate in maintaining the close military relations with Washington established by its predecessors. Last July-August, the Indian Airforce took part in a US exercise in Alaska codenamed Exercise Cooperative Thunder. In October, the Indian navy engaged in manoeuvres with the US navy in the Arabian Sea near Goa.

An article on the Asia Times website last November entitled “Navy reflects India’s strategic ambitions” pointed to the expansion of Indian naval operations. “Most striking of all, the Indian navy is in the midst of a deployment to the South China Sea and beyond that is bringing Indian warships to ports in Vietnam, the Philippines, Indonesia, South Korea and Japan. This is the first time that the Indian navy will have such an extensive agenda in the South China Sea.”

The author—US strategic analyst Dr Donald Berlin—noted that India had held discussions with Indonesia, Malaysia and Singapore about naval collaboration in the Malacca Strait. The Indian and Indonesian navies are already engaged in joint patrols in what is known as the Six Degree Channel separating Nicobar from the Indonesian island of Sabang. The channel is normally used by all international shipping entering or leaving the Malacca Strait.

India’s strategically-located bases in the Andaman and Nicobar islands are crucial to its ambitions for a naval presence in the Malacca Strait and beyond. In preserving a cloak of secrecy over its military operations in the archipelago, the fate of tsunami victims is clearly the last consideration.


Why has India blocked foreign tsunami aid to the Nicobar and Andaman islands?

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

jefmq

Do be good enough to also post your post to which you have quoted my reply.

Half way home is half truth and obfuscation aimed to fool and confuse.

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

Ah brigadier lets see why India refused aid



Why has India blocked foreign tsunami aid to the Nicobar and Andaman islands?
By Parwini Zora and Daniel Woreck
25 January 2005
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The remote Andaman and Nicobar group suffered a devastating blow from the December 26 tsunami. The low-lying and mostly uninhabited chain of 572 islands in the Bay of Bengal was the closest Indian territory to the epicentre of the massive earthquake. As well as being swamped by the sea, it was hit by a series of substantial aftershocks.

The official death toll is now more than 1,800 but over 5,500 people are still missing, presumed dead. While the southern state of Tamil Nadu had the largest number of Indian deaths in absolute terms, the population of the Andaman and Nicobar islands is just 356,000 and is proportionately the hardest hit. An estimated 288,000 people, or 80 percent of the total population, have been affected.

Nearly 12,000 survivors from the 38 inhabited islands were evacuated to the Andaman capital of Port Blair. By January 4, however, the exodus had to be halted as relief camps in the town had filled to overflowing. Most of Port Blair’s schools were overcrowded with refugees while others were forced to live under plastic sheeting.

An estimated 40,000 people are taking shelter in relief camps scattered across the archipelago. The camps are under the supervision of local authorities who are installed directly by the central government in New Delhi and come under the supervision of the Indian military.

The Indian government claims to have organised adequate emergency relief for the stricken islands. The survivors, however, complain of delays and a lack of medical care, and have criticised the manner in which the Indian military has conducted relief operations. The government has not only ignored the grievances, but refused all offers of assistance from foreign aid groups.

The only international organisation allowed to operate across the archipelago is UNICEF. Foreign journalists and aid workers have been confined to Port Blair and not permitted to travel to any of the outlying islands. International aid groups have been permitted to provide assistance to local organisations, but even these activities have been restricted.

Just over a week ago, International Red Cross officials accused authorities of hijacking aid being sent to survivors. The Red Cross alleged that supplies being shipped to Port Blair were being seized at the docks, apparently for distribution by government agencies.

According to a BBC report, “The Andaman-Nicobar administration is determined to prevent foreign voluntary groups from joining the relief effort, even if it is by proxy.”

The obvious question arises: why such sensitivity to a foreign aid presence in the Andamans?

From the outset, New Delhi has insisted that India did not require international aid. Indian Foreign Secretary Shyam Suran told the press: “In terms of not accepting foreign assistance, we feel we have all the resources to cope... our response to this disaster was very prompt and effective.”

In fact, the government went further. In line with its ambitions to become a major regional power, New Delhi rushed medical and technical aid to Sri Lanka, the Maldives and the Indonesian province of Aceh. In its largest ever peacetime operation—“Operation Sea Wave”—the Indian navy dispatched 32 ships to the stricken countries in the space of just one week.

During a visit to Calcutta, Prime Minister Manmohan Singh commented: “Our response [to the tsunami] was not shaped by false pride or by chauvinism. We are happy to be part of the global community and to work with it.” He nevertheless boasted that “India could demonstrate to the world its ability and capability to stand on its own feet”.

But as the inadequacy of relief efforts in southern India surfaced in the media, New Delhi was compelled to modify its stance. While still rejecting direct aid from foreign countries, the Singh government declared that it was willing to accept financial aid from the UN, the Asian Development Bank, the World Bank and the International Monetary Fund. Various aid groups and non-government organisations, foreign and India, were already providing some assistance.


Sensitive military bases

In the Nicobar and Andaman group, however, the tight restrictions remain in force. While the Indian government has pointed to the need to protect the aboriginal tribes, its overriding concern is to preserve the secrecy surrounding Indian military bases on the islands. As Suba Chandran, an analyst at the Delhi-based Institute of Peace and Conflict Studies, told the BBC: “It is a Cold War mentality. India is sensitive about its military installations in the Andamans.”

At its southernmost point, the archipelago is just 150km from Indonesia’s Sumatra. The northernmost point is less than 50km from the Coco Islands which belong to Burma. The islands are in an ideal position to monitor shipping through the Malacca Strait, which is a key route from the Middle East to North East Asia and the broader Asian Pacific region. A substantial proportion of world trade, including vital oil supplies to Japan and China, passes through the strait. US military strategists have long regarded the sea-lane as a crucial “choke point” that could be used to cut off vital supplies in the event of a conflict, with China in particular.

The area is the focus for growing rivalry. In an effort to protect its supply routes, China has strengthened ties with Burma and is reportedly developing naval bases and electronic surveillance facilities in the country. India, which has been developing a close strategic alliance with the US, has used the Nicobar and Andaman islands to “counter” the Chinese presence in Burma and other Asian countries.

In 2001, India spent an estimated $US2 billion to establish the Andaman Nicobar Command, jointly run by the army, navy, air force and the coast guard, to preside over its military operations in the archipelago. The Indian airforce has a substantial presence, including a fighter squadron and a unit of helicopters. The army was to station a full division or 8,000 soldiers in the islands. Surveillance and monitoring stations have been established along the entire archipelago.

Since winning last year’s elections, Congress has continued the overall military expansion set in train by the previous Bharatya Janatha Party (BJP)-led coalition. In last year’s budget, defence spending was boosted by another 27 percent to a total of $US17.63 billion or 2.5 percent of the country’s Gross Domestic Product (GDP). The hardware to be purchased includes three French Scorpion submarines, 115 multi-purpose fighters, three Phalcon airborne warning radar systems and a Russian aircraft carrier.

The Congress-led government did not hesitate in maintaining the close military relations with Washington established by its predecessors. Last July-August, the Indian Airforce took part in a US exercise in Alaska codenamed Exercise Cooperative Thunder. In October, the Indian navy engaged in manoeuvres with the US navy in the Arabian Sea near Goa.

An article on the Asia Times website last November entitled “Navy reflects India’s strategic ambitions” pointed to the expansion of Indian naval operations. “Most striking of all, the Indian navy is in the midst of a deployment to the South China Sea and beyond that is bringing Indian warships to ports in Vietnam, the Philippines, Indonesia, South Korea and Japan. This is the first time that the Indian navy will have such an extensive agenda in the South China Sea.”

The author—US strategic analyst Dr Donald Berlin—noted that India had held discussions with Indonesia, Malaysia and Singapore about naval collaboration in the Malacca Strait. The Indian and Indonesian navies are already engaged in joint patrols in what is known as the Six Degree Channel separating Nicobar from the Indonesian island of Sabang. The channel is normally used by all international shipping entering or leaving the Malacca Strait.

India’s strategically-located bases in the Andaman and Nicobar islands are crucial to its ambitions for a naval presence in the Malacca Strait and beyond. In preserving a cloak of secrecy over its military operations in the archipelago, the fate of tsunami victims is clearly the last consideration.


Why has India blocked foreign tsunami aid to the Nicobar and Andaman islands?

Again as a journalist you are proving to be a hack.

Tsunami also hit the South Indian coast!

There is nothing sensitive in Andaman and Nicobar or else foreign tourists would not be allowed.

This is just another of the usual sensational stuff, journalist conjure to earn their daily bread and keep their home fires burning.

In today's satellite imagery there is no way one can hide anything.


Use Google Earth and you will find all details of Trombay Island or even Kahuta.

The huge Chinese submarine facility was discovered by satellite.

By Hans M. Kristensen

The Chinese navy has deployed a Jin-class (Type 094) ballistic missile submarine to a new base near Yulin on Hainan Island on the South China Sea, according to a satellite image obtained by FAS. The image shows the submarine moored at a pier close to a large sea-entrance to an underground facility.

Also visible is a unique newly constructed pier that appears to be a demagnetization facility for submarines.

A dozen tunnels to underground facilities are visible throughout the base compound.

The satellite image, which has also been described in Jane’s Defense Weekly, was taken by the QuickBird satellite on February 27, 2008, and purchased by FAS from DigitalGlobe.

The Arrival of the Jin-Class Submarine

The dimensions of the submarine in the satellite image are similar to the Jin-class SSBN I spotted at Xiaopingdao Submarine Base in July 2007 and the two Jin-class SSBNs I detected at the Bohai shipyard in October 2007.

China is believed to have launched two Jin-class SSBNs with a third possibly under construction. The U.S. Intelligence community estimates that China might possibly build five SSBNs if it wants to have a near-continuous deterrent at sea. Of course, it is not known whether China plans to operate its SSBNs that way. See Figure 1 for the location of the submarine.

Figure 1:
Yulin (Sanya) Naval Base
Click on image to view higher resolution
A new satellite photo purchased by FAS from DigitalGlobe shows a Chinese Jin-class SSBN at Yulin (Sanya) Naval Base on Hainan Island. Additional piers are outside the left frame of the photo. Click on image for larger photo. North is left.

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Missile loadout of the SSBN will probably take place at pierside at the main pier to the left of the narrow triple-pier where the submarine is seen, unless the underground facility is large enough to permit such operations out of satellite view. Not yet visible at the base is a dry dock large enough to accommodate an SSBN; the Northern Fleet submarine base at Jianggezhuang has a dry dock.

New Demagnetization Facility

One of the most interesting new additions to the base is what appears to be a submarine demagnetization facility (see Figure 2). Located in the southern part of the base and connected by pier to a facility on a small island, the demagnetization facility closely resembles such facilities at U.S. SSBN bases. Demagnetization is conducted before deployment to remove residual magnetic fields in the metal of the submarine to make it harder to detect by other submarines and surface ships. There is no demagnetization facility at the Jianggezhuang base, so this appears to be a new capability for China.

Figure 2:
New Submarine Demagnetization Facility
Click on image to view higher resolution
Since 2005, what appears to be a submarine demagnetization facility has been added to the base. Click on image for larger photo.

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Underground Facilities

The base has extensive underground facilities. The most obvious is a large portal over a sea-entrance to what is probably an underground facility. The entrance appears to be approximately 3 meters (15 feet) wider than a similar entrance at the Northern Fleet Jianggezhuang Naval Base (see Figure 3 for comparison).

Figure 3:
Submarine Caves at Yulin and Jianggezhuang
Click on image to view higher resolution
The submarine cave entrance at Yulin Naval Base (top) is approximately 3 meters wider than the one at Jianggezhuang Naval Base. Click on image for larger photo of the Yulin entrance. Description of the Jianggezhuang facility is available here.

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Although the interior of the facility is not known, it probably includes a canal at least the length of one submarine as well as halls for handling or possibly storing equipment as well as rooms for personnel. Directly on the other side of the mountain are several land-entrances that might connect to the central facility as well, although none of this is known for sure. Two of those entrances appear from their shadows to be very tall structures (see Figure 4).

Figure 4:
Tunnels at Yulin Naval Base
Click on image to view higher resolution
At least a dozen tunnels to underground facilities are visible, including some very tall ones on the east side of the mountain housing the submarine cave. Click on image for larger photo.

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Some Implications

The SSBN base on Hainan Island will probably be seen as a reaffirmation of China’s ambitions to develop a sea-based deterrent. To what extent the Chinese navy will be capable of operating the SSBNs in a way that matters strategically is another question. China’s first SSBN, the Xia, was no success and never sailed on a deterrent mission. As a consequence, the Chinese navy has virtually no tactical experience in operating SSBNs at sea. Yet the Jin-class and the demagnetization facility on Hainan Island show they’re trying.

The location of the base is important because the Indian government already has pointed to a future threat from Chinese missile submarines operating in the South China Sea or Indian Ocean. The arrival of the Jin-class in Hainan will probably help sustain India’s own SSBN program. For China to sail an SSBN into the India Ocean and operate it there in a meaningful way, however, will be very difficult and dangerous in a crisis. Chinese SSBNs are more likely to stay close to home.

The base on Hainan Island is near deep water and some analysts suggest this will support submarine patrols better that operations from the Northern Fleet base at Jianggezhuang. Of course, if the water is so shallow the submarine can’t submerge fully it will limit operations, but deep water is - contrary to popular perception - not necessarily an advantage. Military submarines generally are not designed to dive deeper than 400-600 meters, so great ocean depth may be of little value. The U.S. navy has several decades of experience in trailing Soviet SSBNs in the open oceans; shallow waters are much more challenging. And the South China Sea is a busy area for U.S. attack submarines, which have unconstrained access to the waters off Hainan Island. And I’d be surprised if there were not a U.S. “shadow” following the Jin-class SSBN when it arrived at Hainan Island.

New Chinese SSBN Deploys to Hainan Island » FAS Strategic Security Blog

Please note the great details the satellite imagery has revealed.

Therefore, such news report may impress you. But those in the know, realise the agenda of journalists.

I don't grudge them feeding such sensationalism that are without base, for after all a journalist has to also eat and feed his family!