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Muslims and minorities | Opinion
IMAGINE the following scenario: a complex housing a mosque, a madressah, a girls` school and a home for the elderly being run by a Muslim charity is broken into at dawn and bulldozed by officials. No notice is served, and no documents challenging ownership are produced. Yet, within hours, the buildings are reduced to rubble, residents are made homeless, and copies of religious texts destroyed. Supervising this operation is the top local bureaucrat who pays no heed to the protests of the ulema in charge of the complex. Think of the outcry across the entire Muslim world. Demonstrations outside the embassies of the country that allowed this injustice to happen would have broken out instantly.

But when the Punjab government recently carried out a similar operation against Gosha-i-Aman, a Christian charity in Lahore, everybody in and out of Pakistan stood by silently. The chief minister, no doubt eyeing the two acres of land his minions had so brutally seized from the Catholic church, had nothing to say.

In the wider context of our vile treatment of our minorities, I suppose this incident fades into insignificance.

The hapless residents of Gosha-i-Aman should count themselves lucky that they weren`t killed by the Punjab government goons. Had there been any bloodshed, possibly no action would have been taken against the killers: Pakistan has an appalling record of not convicting zealots who have killed so many non-Muslims in the past.

Let me declare a personal interest here: I was educated by the good priests of St Patrick`s school in Karachi, and have nothing but respect for them. I counted Christians, Hindus and Parsis among my friends. Granted, we have descended into a hell of our own making; but surely, civilised values must count for something, even with the ruling party in Punjab.

However, this is probably wishful thinking: judging by the level of religion-fuelled madness we witness everyday in Pakistan, our leaders are incapable of human feelings, except that of greed.

At the Galle Literary Festival in Sri Lanka last week, I had the good fortune to meet a very wise old Muslim lawyer. When I asked him if the present government would ever accord the Tamils equal rights, he posed me another question: “Which majority in the world treats a minority as equals?”

I racked my brain, and tentatively suggested Canada. “Ah,” he replied. “But do the white majority treat Native Canadians fairly or equally?” On reflection, I had to concede it was the former. Frankly, I had never thought much about the distinction between `equally` and `fairly`, but clearly, there is one.

However, we treat our minorities neither equally nor fairly. Indeed, we don`t even pretend to. Almost every other day, I get some fresh evidence of our prejudiced attitudes towards non-Muslims. Even within the dominant religion, there is persecution. Shias are regularly targeted: just the other day, three Shia lawyers were gunned down in Karachi.

According to human rights organisations, Pakistan is among the most brutal countries when it comes to the treatment of minorities. Year after year, the Human Rights Commission of Pakistan issues reports highlighting a wide range of crimes committed against non-Muslims by individuals and the state.

In the recent Punjab government action against Gosha-i-Aman, no functionary has explained why this extreme step was taken without warning, especially when the church has documents proving its ownership of the property since 1887. But when the state is itself a party to what comes across as a blatant land grab, there is little ordinary citizens can do to resist, especially when they belong to a minority community.

Across the Muslim world, Christians are under attack from Muslims. In Nigeria, an extremist Muslim organisation calling itself Boko Haram has killed hundreds of Christians and attacked dozens of churches. In Iraq, nearly half a million Christians have been forced to leave their homes, and scores have been killed. In Egypt, the ancient community of Christian Copts has suffered repeated attacks by Salafists.

And yet when these appalling acts of violent intolerance occur, there is scarcely any protest from either our clerics or our politicians. Nevertheless, we are constantly and deeply sensitive to all real and perceived wrongs meted out to Muslims in the West. `Islamophobia` is regularly trotted out in our criticism of foreign countries Muslims have opted to settle in.

But the reality is that Muslim immigrants in the West don`t face a fraction of the injustice and intolerance native non-Muslims have to put up with in Muslim countries. In almost every western country, laws protect minorities from open racism. In the Islamic world, even where anti-discrimination laws exist, they provide scant protection, as show our daily acts of open discrimination and violence against our minorities.

I still recall a TV programme in which a Pakistani Sikh recounted how he was sitting by a stream, cooling his feet on a hot day, when a passing Muslim insisted he pull them out of the water because he was polluting it. Similarly, for generations, Christians and Hindus have been served in separate cups and plates at roadside eating-places across the country. Sweepers in homes are always given water in glasses nobody else uses.

We don`t think twice about these nasty acts of daily discrimination, having grown up with them as part of life`s rituals. But consider for a moment how deeply insulting and wounding they must be. If Muslims were similarly treated in the West, imagine the outcry, not least among citizens of the country concerned.

The level of civilisation a country has achieved must be judged by its treatment of the most vulnerable sections of society. By this standard, we earn the reputation of barbarians incapable of living with people of different beliefs. And yet we demand more than equal status when we build our mosques and spread Islam abroad.

At a time of increased judicial activism is it too much to demand that our higher judiciary pay our hapless minorities some attention? I recall an article I wrote about the apparently forcible conversion of three Hindu sisters some years ago. As a result, the chief justice took suo moto notice of the incident and called for an investigation.

Surely the case of the wanton destruction of church property in Lahore, and the seizure of its land warrants similar action.

The writer is the author of Fatal Faultlines: Pakistan, Islam and the West .

irfan.husain@gmail.com
Muslims and minorities | Opinion | DAWN.COM
 
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However, we treat our minorities neither equally nor fairly. Indeed, we don`t even pretend to. Almost every other day, I get some fresh evidence of our prejudiced attitudes towards non-Muslims. Even within the dominant religion, there is persecution. Shias are regularly targeted: just the other day, three Shia lawyers were gunned down in Karachi.
There are only few incidents that happened in dehats of Punjab in the past and that must be looked in an isolation.People can't simply generalize that all muslims in Pakistan are against the minorities residing here.There is no big conspiracy from muslims against the Christians Hindus Sikhs eve AHMEDis or any other minority living in Pakistan.

The main takleef of writer in this article is the killing of Shias. He has to understand that when three lawyers died which accidently appeared to be Shias couple of Sunnis died as well on the same day. The media is definitely giving the wrong impression to the other world.
 
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This was precisely captured by Don Morris at Doc's Talk which goes as follows

You seriously don't expect this blogpost to be credible now do you?

Both Indonesia and Turkey have 80-90% population but there is not "sharia law" or "jizya" there. Same applies to central asian countries that are secular dictatorships. What genocide and ethnic cleansing has happened in UAE, Qatar and Oman? And wern't the Bosnian muslims on the receiving end of the ethnic cleansing?

Syria is also a secular dictatorship where no sharia law is applied. And what about the recent Gurudwara being opened in UAE which is 100% Muslim?

And seriously "food preparation jobs" are now the new conspiracy of taking over a country? That is the most hilarious thing I have read in a long time.

Infact, lets put in a thought experiment. Lets do a research on Europeans and how their "creeping population increases" leads to the genocide of native populations. Some of the best examples ofcourse are Australia, New Zealand and the US and Canada. The new arrivals established "beach heads" and finally have succeeded in systematically exterminating the native population. So whereas the natives consisted of 100% of the population of these lands, they now number less than 1% And all this over the span of 200 years.


The Dawn article discussed an important issue in Pakistan concerning minority rights but posting a blogpost which has its stats as well as information wrong. Pakistan has to take care of this and correct its terrible record on this account because not only is it inhuman but it is UNISLAMIC. There is no excuse under Islamic law to demolish place of worship of other religions and this should be enforced in Pakistan.
 
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I dont think we should judge europeans by their deeds in long time ago, we should see how they treat their minorites now, which is much better than we treat them in south asia.

Why does a muslim have to choose between "secular dictators" and "religion based democracy".
Should not they strive to have a secular democracy?
 
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I dont think we should judge europeans by their deeds in long time ago, we should see how they treat their minorites now, which is much better than we treat them in south asia.

Why does a muslim have to choose between "secular dictators" and "religion based democracy".
Should not they strive to have a secular democracy?

I wasn't judging Europeans here but indicating a thought experiment on how ridiculous the DocTalk post is.

There are secular democracies as well like Indonesia, Turkey (both of which happen to be the biggest economies in the Muslim world as well) Malaysia e.t.c. Secular dictatorships are a throwback of the USSR in Central Asia and military coups that occurred in the Arab world. The natural movement is towards a democracy and that is what we should be seeing in the Arab world and Central Asia.

A perfect example is Tunisia. It was a secular dictatorships for decades. After the revolution, the so called "Islamist" party Enhadda came to power. But it has comitted itself to a secular status and democracy and said no to an Islamic caliphate. We might see the same in Egypt and Libya as well.

Here is a Hindu article that covers this story
The Hindu : Opinion / Lead : From Arab Spring to post-Islamist summer
 
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There are only few incidents that happened in dehats of Punjab in the past and that must be looked in an isolation.People can't simply generalize that all muslims in Pakistan are against the minorities residing here.There is no big conspiracy from muslims against the Christians Hindus Sikhs eve AHMEDis or any other minority living in Pakistan.

The main takleef of writer in this article is the killing of Shias. He has to understand that when three lawyers died which accidently appeared to be Shias couple of Sunnis died as well on the same day. The media is definitely giving the wrong impression to the other world.

Those Shia lawyers were gunned down near the City Court in Karachi, not in a remote area. This time not some fanatic Jihadis but the Punjab government itself demolished this property and took away the land forcefully that belongs to the church since 1887,
 
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You seriously don't expect this blogpost to be credible now do you?

Both Indonesia and Turkey have 80-90% population but there is not "sharia law" or "jizya" there. Same applies to central asian countries that are secular dictatorships. What genocide and ethnic cleansing has happened in UAE, Qatar and Oman? And wern't the Bosnian muslims on the receiving end of the ethnic cleansing?
Ejaz, you know about Indonesia's history with East Timor, Turkey's history with Armenia and yet you say so ? And pray why tell me was East Timor cleansed of its ethnic population by Indonesia ? Do you deny what is happening with Sudan, Nigeria, Ivory Coast, Thailand and Chechnya to name a few ARE NOT because of tensions occurring due to minorities being suppressed wherein the involved majority population is Muslim in Chechnya, Sudan and Nigeria have seen far greater massacres than the minority Muslim population in Thailand or Ivory Coast ? The blog post may seem to be shallow enough, but it is something worthwhile to think about the current conflicts in the world that involve the Islamic population.
And seriously "food preparation jobs" are now the new conspiracy of taking over a country? That is the most hilarious thing I have read in a long time.
Do you not remember the recent outcry when the British Parliament banned halaal food inside the premises ? Imagine if this was seen on a wider scale throughout Europe.

Infact, lets put in a thought experiment. Lets do a research on Europeans and how their "creeping population increases" leads to the genocide of native populations. Some of the best examples ofcourse are Australia, New Zealand and the US and Canada. The new arrivals established "beach heads" and finally have succeeded in systematically exterminating the native population. So whereas the natives consisted of 100% of the population of these lands, they now number less than 1% And all this over the span of 200 years.
Well if History has to be seen, then you have to see it unbiased. The explorers from Europe to Latin America, the US and the Carribean came in conquest for wealth, land and for expanding the frontiers of their nation-state. The tool they used after overwhelming "firepower" was religion to "tame" the natives. Which is precisely what the Muslim empires too did in the Subcontinent, the Balkans and in Andalusia. And yet the native population in Latin America (mainly in the Amazon rain-forests, Bolivia and Peru) survive to this day. So do tribes in Guatemala.

The Dawn article discussed an important issue in Pakistan concerning minority rights but posting a blogpost which has its stats as well as information wrong. Pakistan has to take care of this and correct its terrible record on this account because not only is it inhuman but it is UNISLAMIC. There is no excuse under Islamic law to demolish place of worship of other religions and this should be enforced in Pakistan.
I definitely agree with the article, and in fact yesterday i even posted an article on parallel Islamic sharia courts being run in Kashmir which deny these very privileges to the Christians there.
 
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Those Shia lawyers were gunned down near the City Court in Karachi, not in a remote area.

No denying that they were gunned downed, but do you have any evidence who did that. OfCourse you don't know. Neither any one of us. So we cannot start speculating if we have no source.

You also and everyone else have to keep in mind that after their killing nearly half of the Karachi was shut down and multiple vehicles were torched on the main streets right in the middle of the city by whom obviously You know the answer.

You also have to keep in mind that over two dozens Sunnis killed in Pakistan everyday so let's just not make a discrimination as the writer is clearly doing.


This time not some fanatic Jihadis but the Punjab government itself demolished this property and took away the land forcefully that belongs to the church since 1887,

Regarding the church...

LAHORE – The Punjab government on Saturday announced to hand over the possession of the disputed land of recently demolished Gosha-e-Aman to the Catholic Diocese, maintaining that the operation was meant to vacate the building from illegal occupants. Punjab Finance Minister, Kamran Michael, who also represents minorities in the government, addressed a news conference on Sunday to make the announcement.

The Arch Bishop of Lahore Catholic Church, Sabestian Shah has welcomed the announcement by Punjab government provided the same is implemented in letter and in spirit. He, however, said that their planned protest demonstration would be held as scheduled on Monday at 1 pm, as government had not given them any thing in black and white regarding the decision. The finance minister said Chief Minister Shahbaz Sharif had also directed to award a two-and-half kanals piece of government land adjacent to the site to the Catholic Diocese for the purpose of construction of a school and a shelter home for the old. He said that the Christian Community was thankful to the CM for such a support. He said security and sanctity of religious places and properties would be ensured in future.

Kamran Michael was the of the view that the piece of land, situated at Allama Iqbal Road, opposite to Jamia Namia was under the unlawful possession of land mafia for the last over two years and the mafia were trying to sell it out. The government smelled their motives and retrieved the land from them with timely interference, he added.

“District Administration retrieved land of Gosha-e-Aman with the permission of court which declared the site ‘Nazool Land’ (the land, nobody owned) after getting orders from court before launching operation”, he told reporters. He assured that government would not allow any person to use church property for any other purpose. “In fact, some elements were exploiting the emotions of Christian community by highlighting demolition issue of Gosha-e-Aman just for achieving their political motives which might result in clash between government and Christian community and I condemn the illicit motives of such black sheep.”

He clarified that no NOC was issued by Punjab Watch Committee for using such Church land for any other purpose while some elements were misguiding the community in this regard. He further said that government always protected rights of minorities, living within the boundaries of the province on priority basis and it would ensure provision of basic rights of minorities with protection in future as well. Replying to a question, he said that provincial government has also decided to move the Supreme Court for transfer of Evacuate Trust Property control/powers to provinces.

Meanwhile, a dozen of workers of Pakistan Minorities Movement staged a protest demonstration against alleged unlawful act of demolition of Gosha-e-Aman. They chanted slogans against provincial government and Minister for Minority Affairs. In a related development, the Archdiocese of Lahore has announced a protest on Monday against what he called the cruelty of the government, according to a press release issued by Bishop Sebastian Shaw.

Clergy given control of church land | The Nation

Please brother do a research thousand times before spreading any news that's All I am asking. We need to be more responsible and should not let anyone talk bad about Pakistan and it's people.
 
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Well every govt gives out such reasons to protect them and even india is no exceptions !!
Already we have seen a lot of land grabbing cases by politicians in india(particularly more cases in tamil nadu :P) !!
And majority of people in pakistan are moderate but the govt hear the mullah's word more and thats where the problem begins !!!
 
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Ejaz, you know about Indonesia's history with East Timor, Turkey's history with Armenia and yet you say so ? And pray why tell me was East Timor cleansed of its ethnic population by Indonesia ? Do you deny what is happening with Sudan, Nigeria, Ivory Coast, Thailand and Chechnya to name a few ARE NOT because of tensions occurring due to minorities being suppressed wherein the involved majority population is Muslim in Chechnya, Sudan and Nigeria have seen far greater massacres than the minority Muslim population in Thailand or Ivory Coast ? The blog post may seem to be shallow enough, but it is something worthwhile to think about the current conflicts in the world that involve the Islamic population.

The claim was that 90% above Muslim countries would have sharia law. That is what I proved is false. Lets not shift the goal post. Indonesia, Malaysia, Turkey, Tunisia, the CARs, Syria are all countries with high Muslim percentage populations and are still secular.
Not a SINGLE Muslim country in the world implements Jizya on Non-muslims which has been effectively abolished. Infact, many non-muslim in the GCC countries which are 100% muslim earn tax free income! A privilege not even available in the US or Europe.

And as you may know, East Timor was granted independence and so was South Sudan. Ironically, nobody talks about Christians demanding an independent state wherever they became a majority in a Muslim majority country.


If you want to talk about violence in countries that is a different topic. For example, out of the 200+ year history of the US, it has not been in a state of war for only 21 years and most wars outside its borders either for expanding them in the early years or overseas. A much more violent history than most Muslim countries most of whom had been colonised by European powers until the 1950s and 60s. The USSR and China have massacred millions more than all the "Muslim countries" combined. And afterall it was a Christian Germany that massacred millions of Jews systematically and not any Muslim country.

Do you not remember the recent outcry when the British Parliament banned halaal food inside the premises ? Imagine if this was seen on a wider scale throughout Europe.

I am not aware of this outcry. But halal is similar to the Jewish Kosher. I think they have not banned it but just don't server halal. Just like they don't server Kosher. I think Jews and Muslim will have to work together to resolve this issue.

But my point is how does serving Halal food result in a takeover of a country by Muslims. Non-muslims can eat or not eat Halal food. Just like serving Kosher meat doesn't mean Jews will take over a country. It sounds silly, I hope it does to you as well.

Well if History has to be seen, then you have to see it unbiased. The explorers from Europe to Latin America, the US and the Carribean came in conquest for wealth, land and for expanding the frontiers of their nation-state. The tool they used after overwhelming "firepower" was religion to "tame" the natives. Which is precisely what the Muslim empires too did in the Subcontinent, the Balkans and in Andalusia. And yet the native population in Latin America (mainly in the Amazon rain-forests, Bolivia and Peru) survive to this day. So do tribes in Guatemala.


The tribes in South America are in the minority and marginalized just like the Aborigines in Australia or native Americans in the US. The politics and economy are dominated by people of European descent. In the Muslim world, Arabs are a minority comprising 19% of the global Muslim population. So the extermination theory does not hold. Otherwise, Arabs should have been the dominant ethnic group. Just like Europeans ethnicities are the dominant Christian group by far around the world. One interesting fact is that the Arab empires where completely smashed by the Buddhist/Shamanist Central Asian invaders like Halaku Khan and his people. The usual logic is that the invaders spread their religion on the conquered people but instead, the Mongol-Turkic invaders accepted Islam in a couple of generations.

My point really is that the entire thesis in this blog can't stand scrutiny and the examples of European countries was really to show how baseless the assertion is. This is not a comparison on which religion is more efficient in exterminating native populations. As the Mongol/Turkic example indicates, there are varied reasons for how religion spread in different places and different times.

I definitely agree with the article, and in fact yesterday i even posted an article on parallel Islamic sharia courts being run in Kashmir which deny these very privileges to the Christians there.

Well if you agree, that is your perogorative but like I explained, its not based on facts.

Can you be more specific on what privileges are being denied to Christians in Kashmir? AFAIK, no Church was attacked even during the militancy violence during the 1990s. There is a recent case of the conversions happening but other than that, there have been no issues with freedom of religion for Christians in Kashmir.
Valley Christians decry threat perception theory Lastupdate:- Sat, 28 Jan 2012 18:30:00 GMT GreaterKashmir.com


The shariah courts in India don't have any jurisdiction on this issue. This should have gone to the High Court in J&K if there was any violation under law. And if there was none, he should be free to practice and preach freely. This can't be restricted.

The shariah courts are restricted only to personal law issues only and that too only to Muslims who actually go to them and are optional. Just like Hindus, Christians, Parsis and others have similar personal law to sort out domestic issues. And again the High Courts have final say in all these cases with the Supreme Court being the highest judicial authority.
 
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^^^ I agree with most of the things you said. I still believe we should not judge present day US/Australia/Europeans for the crimes their ancesters committed.
We should improve our own human right record before pointing to others, whether islamic world or western world. Cheers.
 
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No denying that they were gunned downed, but do you have any evidence who did that. OfCourse you don't know. Neither any one of us. So we cannot start speculating if we have no source.

You also and everyone else have to keep in mind that after their killing nearly half of the Karachi was shut down and multiple vehicles were torched on the main streets right in the middle of the city by whom obviously You know the answer.

You also have to keep in mind that over two dozens Sunnis killed in Pakistan everyday so let's just not make a discrimination as the writer is clearly doing.

Forget yar, the Zionist agents come and kill yearly one or two Shias in the dehats of Pakistan to defame our peaceful islam ka qila[/I, not worth talking about. Allah will take care of these damn Zionists, in the meantime read this article. Don't forget to click on the links included in this article.


The politics of living under terrorism
Fear guides Pakistan. And this fear emanates from the absence of law and order. In other words, terrorism. Law and order can fluctuate in most Third World states and still not render them dysfunctional. When we say law and order in Pakistan, we mean terrorism coming from al Qaeda, the Taliban and non-state actors.
Who will correct this condition of living in fear? The politicians who run the democratic system through elected governments? Who can be in the field for elections? The party that is safe from the terrorists? Today, all parties will have to push some of the right buttons to qualify in the eyes of the terrorists. The condition is irreducible: you have to be anti-American and pro-Taliban.
No politician can avoid being anti-American without being killed. The PPP is heavily on board with our army to be on the safe side. The army itself is in the process of getting rid of its old nexus with the US military. Why? Because it doesn’t want to fight terrorism linked externally to the Haqqani group and internally to non-state actors.
The theory is that if the Americans are made to leave Afghanistan and not provided a leg-up in Pakistan, the Taliban will give up terrorism. After that, the army can concentrate once again, on India.
Imran Khan says, if the Americans are made to leave, the Taliban will come to heel. He used to claim that he will put an end to terrorism in 90 days. The assumption was that his pro-Taliban line will reward him after he comes to power by persuading the Taliban to get back to being normal Pakistanis.
Nawaz Sharif has made his own adjustments. His party says that the war against terrorism is not Pakistan’s war. That makes him safe vis-à-vis the terrorists. If Imran was hoping to make headway against the PPP in south Punjab because of his pro-Taliban line, he should focus on Nawaz Sharif’s interface with the Sipah-e-Sahaba.
The Sipah is the mother of the Jaish-e-Muhammad and the Lashkar-e-Jhangvi, the two lethal sectarian outfits in south Punjab with a clout that scares the feudal power brokers of that area. Both, along with their mother organisation, are affiliated with al Qaeda too.
If terrorism is your entry ticket to power, why should you name it as the foremost state-destroying factor? Corruption is much better as the single problem rendering the state dysfunctional. It also comes in handy for getting rid of the PPP government before its five years are up.
You want to hold ‘mammoth’ rallies? Be on the right side of the terrorists or get your jalsa suicide-bombed.
Businessmen and capitalists have long been saying that they are not investing because of the bad law and order situation. They will not name the terrorists to avoid being kidnapped or killed, so they say law and order. Most of the country is taking orders from the terrorists and that includes the politician and the police.
The interface between the state and the terrorists is clearly seen through the non-state actors that Pakistan brought into existence to fight its proxy wars on both sides of its territory. Today, no politician will name them. Imran Khan, wisely avoided reference to them in his interview with Karan Thapar, but it is obvious that he hates them.
The army is busy fighting India in Balochistan and will not save the Hazara there from being slaughtered by the terrorists affiliated with al Qaeda. Everybody is hoping that somehow the Taliban will lie down and wag their tail obediently if Pakistan is anti-American enough.
Pakistan is sinking because it doesn’t want to look terrorism in the eye. If someone is negotiating peace with the Taliban and the non-state actors, he should keep in mind what happened when the army tried talking peace with them in the past.

The politics of living under terrorism – The Express Tribune
 
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I wasn't judging Europeans here but indicating a thought experiment on how ridiculous the DocTalk post is.

There are secular democracies as well like Indonesia, Turkey (both of which happen to be the biggest economies in the Muslim world as well) Malaysia e.t.c. Secular dictatorships are a throwback of the USSR in Central Asia and military coups that occurred in the Arab world. The natural movement is towards a democracy and that is what we should be seeing in the Arab world and Central Asia.

This is a big farce that Malaysia is secular democracy. Yes, it is more democratic and tolerant by Islamic country's bench marks, but there is big religion and race based discrimination in Malaysia. But it is still one of the best among the worst.
 
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