Muslim reformists

[Marathaman]

Am i to believe you are not familiar with bush administration(christen fundos beyond any imagination).if u wanna see Christian fundo visit all of American southern states.
try Philippines.just because Jewish Media doesn't report it.doesn't mean they are not there.

Bush administration is run by capitalists. Not religious bigots.
Its another matter that Bush is a religious bigot.

The American Southern states supported the war on Iraq. Not because of any holy crusade, but because they believed Bush's crap about Saddam being a terrorist and WMD.
Just like they believe all the other religious crap.

Muslims in middle east are being controlled by CIA puppets need i say more.Islam is a complete religion to practice from birth to death.
But some twisted individuals have changed the meanings to suit there needs and Muslims have been warned about that in quran.just like CIA created ''NATION OF ISLAM''

Islam has flaws...but lets not go there...since this isn't the right forum to discuss religion.

iam not going to sit here and teach you about Islam.my point is simple if you can change your holy book or religion as the times changes.that no longer becomes a religion thats called Fashion (whats in and whats out).you can find a lot of that on Paris run ways.

Hindus weren't handed their religion in a book.

Hinduism developed by man's effort to understand god, not the other way around.
As man's knowledge increases, his understanding of god gets better, and he realizes a higher truth.
Now, since the existence of god has been disproved in the opinion of a number of leading scientists and philosophers,each individual has a variety of options to choose from, depending on his understanding of the workings of the universe.

if Hinduism is going through reforms .so you are basically admitting it was wrong from day one(no and i mean absolutely no disrespect intended here).

Er...refer to above paragraph. No offence taken.

And about your comment here about the some one converting to different religion basically is confirming that he or she no longer believe in there birth religion and now that are older and understand things have chosen a different path.that person can no longer be called a reformer.you cannot reform some thing you no longer believe your self.

A person standing outside his faith can see from a different perspective.

He can find errors only in something he doesn't have blind faith in.

Therfore, since he cannot persuade people to give up their faith, he can atleast point out flaws that need to be corrected.

Of course, that person's ability to reform his adopted religion diminishes significantly..again...since he has blind faith in it.

its like in the west myth is been created That Jews are the chosen one.And christens must do all they can to protect them.i simply ask the person who told me that if u believe they are why are you still christen he couldn't answer that.That reform was put in bible

All blind believers can be challenged in a logical argument. Irrespective of their religion.
Religion should be a private thing and should be left out of politics or government.

 

[Cheetah786]

=Marathaman;90950]Bush administration is run by capitalists. Not religious bigots.
Its another matter that Bush is a religious bigot.

ha ha ha ha yeah capitalist create wealth no hatred.bush support comes mainly from NEO CONS=also known as fundos

The American Southern states supported the war on Iraq. Not because of any holy crusade, but because they believed Bush's crap about Saddam being a terrorist and WMD.
Just like they believe all the other religious crap.

we were talking about southern state being full of christen fundos.iam not discussing what are they supporting or not.

Islam has flaws...but lets not go there...since this isn't the right forum to discuss religion

.
islam is complete religion and is without flaws.people who are practising it have flaws.

Hindus weren't handed their religion in a book.

Hinduism developed by man's effort to understand god, not the other way around.
As man's knowledge increases, his understanding of god gets better, and he realizes a higher truth.
Now, since the existence of god has been disproved in the opinion of a number of leading scientists and philosophers,each individual has a variety of options to choose from, depending on his understanding of the workings of the universe

so you are a atheiust discussing some one else religion.



Er...refer to above paragraph. No offence taken.

A person standing outside his faith can see from a different perspective
He can find errors only in something he doesn't have blind faith in.

Therfore, since he cannot persuade people to give up their faith, he can atleast point out flaws that need to be corrected.

Of course, that person's ability to reform his adopted religion diminishes significantly..again...since he has blind faith in it.

do as i say don't do as i do.thats called hypocrisy

All blind believers can be challenged in a logical argument. Irrespective of their religion.
Religion should be a private thing and should be left out of politics or government

Agree

 

[Marathaman]

ha ha ha ha yeah capitalist create wealth no hatred.bush support comes mainly from NEO CONS=also known as fundos

Capitalists also covet oil.

we were talking about southern state being full of christen fundos.iam not discussing what are they supporting or not.

Yeah the southern states having majority evangelists...true.

What about the rest of America?

The Iraq war wasn't started to fight crusades. The American government is more mature than that. Please don't believe in absurd theories.
It was started to capture Iraqi oil.

so you are a atheist discussing some one else religion.

I don't have religion. So I am not discussing "someone else's religion"

do as i say don't do as i do.thats called hypocrisy

Thats not what I meant. Please read the post carefully.

Don't just glance through the post and oversimplify it.

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

Cheetah,

Isn't there the concept of ijtihad?

 

[A.Rahman]

Glad to hear it...not that I believe it. Could you point out some famous Islamic reformers in modern history?

As I see it...Islam, as practiced by the majority of the muslim world, is completely unreformed and unchanged since medieval times.

Maybe this is due to the perception that Islam is perfect and need not be changed?

There is a Hadith which suggests that every 100 years Allah sends someone to renew Islam for the Muslim nation.

Reformation does not mean that the person referred to will bring anything new in Islam.

He will simply call on Muslims to adhere to the faith of Islam in its purest form. He would call on people to correct their beliefs and practices so as to bring them in line with the pure form of Islam preached by Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him).

It is generally agreed that Umar ibn Abdelaziz was the first such reformer. His influence on the Muslim state was enormous because he eradicated all practices which crept into the government and which could not be sanctioned by Islam. Imam Al-Shafie is generally agreed to have been the reformer for the second century. He brought Islamic scholarship to complete reliance on Hadith in preference to intellectual thought.

There were trends which favored such intellectual approaches in Islamic scholarship but Imam Al-Shafie put the work of scholars back on its proper course, namely, deduction of rulings only on the basis of the Qur'an and the Sunnah. As for the reformers of following centuries, people tend to select some people who had positive influence on the Muslim nation or Islamic thought. However, there is no single list of such reformers which is completely agreed upon.

May I suggest that it is not important to determine who was a reformer and who was not. The religion of Islam is taken from the Prophet, and we simply do not take the view or rulings or thought of any particular scholar as totally correct. Indeed the statement of Imam Malik is particularly relevant in this connection. He refers to scholars and people of lesser standing and says: "You may take some of the view of any person and leave out some, with the exception of the Prophet, the teachings of whom you should take in full.