Muslim Punjabi Tribes and their origins

[Kabira]

How? In many of their oracles in gedmatch they would get Sindhi or even Pathan before Punjabi_Jat reference. They also have lower WHG/steppe than other Punjabis and higher Caucasus/Med. Some results are almost indistuingishable from Sindhis.

Zardaris of Sindh are Jats
"The Zardari tribe originally belongs to the Jat clan living in Sindh and Balochistan"
https://tribune.com.pk/story/814528/dastar-bandi-zardari-takes-over-as-chief-of-his-own-tribe/
Others like Jamots of Lasbela are also Sindhi Jats. I think many of the current Sindhi clans maybe Jat origin given that they were listed as the main population of Sindh in the Chachnama.
There there's also this ()
revised version of 1901 book on Sindhi tribes as well as Asadullah Bhutto of Sindh.

Only few weeks ago Zardari said he is baluch by birth. And all of his big braderi are baluch tribes. You know who's main voters for PML in south punjab? Arains, jatts, rajputs tec from upper punjab. So castes like jats and rajputs don't identify with their local counter parts in rural south punjab. In British census Jamot and Soomro were distinct braderis and not under rajput or jat etc So they don't identify as either of them but their own thing.

Chances of pre British arain community existing in rural Sindh is nill because they didn't exist even in rural south punjab before British raj. Arains and sindhis score different. For one steppe/caucasian among sindhis is visible less then most punjabi braderis from Pakistan including arains. Baloch is higher in HGDP because of recent migrations from Balochistan. But problem with Sindh HGDP samples is we don't know qoum of these samples. I can only guess those with higher baloch are sindhi baloch.

pure sindhi samma/abro results.

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Baloch 39.97
2 S-Indian 37.37
3 Caucasian 8.91
4 NE-Euro 5.08
5 SW-Asian 2.97
6 Mediterranean 2.66
7 American 0.8
8 NE-Asian 0.56
9 E-African 0.5
10 SE-Asian 0.43
11 Siberian 0.41
12 Beringian 0.35

 

[xairhossi]

Only few weeks ago Zardari said he is baluch by birth. And all of his big braderi are baluch tribes.

He identifies with Balochs to get votes, but there are Jamot Jats in Balochistan as well. Jams of Lasbela are Jamots, yet are supported in Balochistan. There are also Mir Jats in Balochistan.
https://m.facebook.com/JattBalochTribe/

You know who's main voters for PML in south punjab? Arains, jatts, gujjar, rajputs tec from upper punjab. So castes like jats and rajputs don't identify with their local counter parts in rural south punjab.

It is true, those of upper Punjab dont identify much with them but most of South Punjab is made up of them apart from minor Makhdooms and Balochs. Also, for example Kharrals identify as their own thing as well but Mirza Jat was Kharral as well.

Chances of pre British arain community existing in rural Sindh is nill because they didn't exist even in rural south punjab before British raj.

I was talking about Bhutta Arains, they are mentioned as being native to Uch/Multan region as well as North Sindh.

Arains and sindhis score different. For one steppe/caucasian among sindhis is visible less then most punjabi braderis from Pakistan including arains. Baloch is higher in HGDP because of recent migrations from Balochistan. But problem with Sindh HGDP samples is we don't know qoum of these samples. I can only guess those with higher baloch are sindhi baloch.

pure sindhi samma/abro results.

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Baloch 39.97
2 S-Indian 37.37
3 Caucasian 8.91
4 NE-Euro 5.08
5 SW-Asian 2.97
6 Mediterranean 2.66
7 American 0.8
8 NE-Asian 0.56
9 E-African 0.5
10 SE-Asian 0.43
11 Siberian 0.41
12 Beringian 0.35

That result looks atypical, do you honestly think Sindhis are most SI shifted than Punjabis, even other Paharis, Jammuites etc.?
There is heksindhi member on anthrogenica, half Jamot half Soomro, he scores very different. HGDP Sindhis were likely from native Sindhi clans, Balochs in Sindh still identify their biraderi as Baloch. Also, Sindh and Balochistan have historically been very close, most of Eastern Balochistan was historically part of Sindh. There was a Sindhi Hindu sample and Khoja/Memon one with higher Baloch, do you think they were mixed as well?
Sindhis have lower WHG/steppe but higher Caucasus/Med and Iran_Neolithic, same as Arains but every other biraderi of Punjab has a different affinity.

 

[Kabira]

That result looks atypical, do you honestly think Sindhis are most SI shifted than Punjabis, even other Paharis, Jammuites etc.?
There is heksindhi member on anthrogenica, half Jamot half Soomro, he scores very different. HGDP Sindhis were likely from native Sindhi clans, Balochs in Sindh still identify their biraderi as Baloch. Also, Sindh and Balochistan have historically been very close, most of Eastern Balochistan was historically part of Sindh. There was a Sindhi Hindu sample and Khoja/Memon one with higher Baloch, do you think they were mixed as well?
Sindhis have lower WHG/steppe but higher Caucasus/Med and Iran_Neolithic, same as Arains but every other biraderi of Punjab has a different affinity.

Yes I believe sindhi upper castes like soomro/samma are less caucasian/steppe and more Indian shifted genetically then arains. Look at arain politicians from sindh you posted, they don't look like sindhi politicians. That lasbela hinskindi was at first confused about his origin. Maybe Lasi speaking Jamot of Lasbela/Balochistan are different then jamot in interior sindh. People used to say arains are like east punjab sansi caste but arains don't look like them. Sansi look like marasis in comparison to arains. Unfortunately we don't have enough samples from all these dozens of braderis to prove anything.

 

[xairhossi]

Yes I believe sindhi upper castes like soomro/samma are less caucasian/steppe and more Indian shifted genetically then arains. Look at arain politicians from sindh you posted, they don't look like sindhi politicians. That lasbela hinskindi was at first confused about his origin. Maybe Lasi speaking Jamot of Lasbela/Balochistan are different then jamot in interior sindh. People used to say arains are like east punjab sansi caste but arains don't look like them. Sansi look like marasis in comparison to arains. Unfortunately we don't have enough samples from all these dozens of braderis to prove anything.

Phenotype isnt the best way to judge this since there can be quite some diversity, but most Sindhis dont look significantly more SI shifted than Punjabis, especially not Bhuttos. Sindh assembly members:
http://www.pas.gov.pk/index.php/members/byparty/en/19/16

Mumtaz Bhutto

Ghulam Qadir Bhutto

Ameer Bux Bhutto

this guys current Soomro chief

HGDP Sindhis are almost indistinguishable genetically from the Khoja/Memom samples who we know arent mixed with Balochs. And steppe is low in Arains as well compared to other Punjabi biraderies but Caucasus/Med is higher which is the case for many Sindhis as well. From HarappaDNA blog:
"Punjabi Arain are about the same as Sindhis (excluding the those with some African ancestry) in terms of their ancestral components."
http://www.harappadna.org/2011/02/reference-ii-admixture-analysis-k-6-9/