More power to Pakistan's jihadis.

[Abu Zolfiqar]

So you talk casually about the ''ideology'' of an institution like the PA (over 600,000+ strong --consisting of people of different sects, ethnic backgrounds) and yet you wont define for me what this ideology is as you see and interpret it at least?

no offence taken! Maybe I'll wait patiently for you to muster the strength to come up with this definition so that we could be on the same page. No rush though, brother.

 

[Rafi]

So you talk casually about the ''ideology'' of an institution like the PA (over 600,000+ strong --consisting of people of different sects, ethnic backgrounds) and yet you wont define for me what this ideology is?

no offence taken! Maybe I'll wait patiently for you to muster the strength to come up with this definition so that we could be on the same page. No rush though.

LoL - you are being a bit brutal today.

 

[Jango]

LoL - you are being a bit brutal today.

The No nonsense guy

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

and since i am all about being on the same page, I will publicly state that Muse and i differ on a lot of things. We agree on many things as well.

so dont take this exchange as us ''coming to blows''.......we arent the indians, we shouldnt fight eachother.

this is still within some semblance and form of ''mature discussion'' ---though for obvious reasons i may have offended some of these bharti lurkers who pollute the forum from time to time.

 

[Jango]

where did muse go?

---------- Post added at 02:01 AM ---------- Previous post was at 02:00 AM ----------

and since i am all about being on the same page, I will publicly state that Muse and i differ on a lot of things. We agree on many things as well.

so dont take this exchange as us ''coming to blows''.......we arent the indians, we shouldnt fight eachother.

hehehe, well muse and alot of other members have been debating the arabization and islamist topic for the past week, so quite normal, lets all hug eachother!

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

LoL - you are being a bit brutal today.

it must be the ''tortilla soup'' i had today.......i overslept this morning so i didnt get to go for my early jog

 

[Rafi]

and since i am all about being on the same page, I will publicly state that Muse and i differ on a lot of things. We agree on many things as well.

so dont take this exchange as us ''coming to blows''.......we arent the indians, we shouldnt fight eachother.

this is still within some semblance and form of ''mature discussion'' ---though for obvious reasons i may have offended some of these bharti lurkers who pollute the forum from time to time.

Exactly right, you can tolerate a lot of criticism from your own people = rather than foreigners.

 

[ares]

The jihadist would have power every time unless the Kashmir issue are solve and pakistan's democratic institution not get strong from the hand of Army and of course a visionary leader is also necessary

That is a standard excuse for one not willing to deal with these terrorist orgs.
If geopolitical issues are allowed to become hostage to whims of terrorists ..then what becomes of this world?

Keeps aside Kashmir ..Pakistan has its own 'Taliban problem' ..with them fighting to impose their own laws on Pakistan...Now apparently easy way out of these bombing and killing should be by giving into their demands..but is it?

There is only one right way in dealing with terrorism and terrorists ..Eliminate them!!.

 

[Rafi]

it must be the ''tortilla soup'' i had today.......i overslept this morning so i didnt get to go for my early jog

You are right - if I don't get my usual 300 push ups in a day - can get a bit cranky myself.

 

[muse]

Well muse, what are you suggesting then?. The army has been mullah invaded and the officers have only Jihad on their mind.
Well muse, the officers, go to their offices, do some training, grab a file, do some signs, authorise some ADM movement, sign the file for the use of fuel reserved for training for ADM duty, practically lying, then the tea break in the ante room and the officers discuss anything but Islamism. and then the 2IC sends a file through the NCO to the CO 'sir ji, 2IC sahib nay file bheji hai, SOP likhni hai kal sham kay ladies function kay liyay( Hardly islamist), Co says 'o yaar store se pichlay sal ki SOP nikal kar lao, copies it, and there you have it. A infantry officer that is. Go home, see the family, eat some, sleep, go to golf or jogging or some outing, come home, watch capital talk, then go to bazaar or stay home and enjoy with the family, and sleep again.

A aviation pilot flies a heli all day, or organizes flights, goes home, sleeps, does a night time flight to fill in his hours for the month. the single officers go to the mess to eat lunch, come to the room, discuss about some girls, cigarettes, and other stuff. Then they go to the mess bar at evening, do some cigarettes, drink some coke, play snooker, and then finish.

Now adays, officers are anything but Islamist or Jihadist. Dont bring in the Afghan thing now. We had to do it, w had to stop ruskies from invading a country, and dont blame only Pakistan for it.

Yes, exactly what I am suggesting - that the army is paper tiger that is more concerned with religious purity than it is anything else

So you talk casually about the ''ideology'' of an institution like the PA (over 600,000+ strong --consisting of people of different sects, ethnic backgrounds) and yet you wont define for me what this ideology is as you see and interpret it at least?

no offence taken! Maybe I'll wait patiently for you to muster the strength to come up with this definition so that we could be on the same page. No rush though, brother

But this is misrepresentation - The army is not multiple faiths, it is in fact tokemism - the army does not take citizenship seriously, rather it takes religious and sectarian affiliations seriously - this is clear in it''s motto Iman, taqwa and JIHAD - after al if it was genuinely multi-religious would it be promoting a single religious world view and that too, a radical Wahabi one?

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

Think 100 times before you take a decision, But once that decision is taken, stand by it as one man.

--Quaid-e-Azam Muhammad Ali Jinnah Sahib

 

[Rafi]

Yes, exactly what I am suggesting - that the army is paper tiger that is more concerned with religious purity than it is anything else


But this is misrepresentation - The army is not multiple faiths, it is in fact tokemism - the army does not take citizenship seriously, rather it takes religious and sectarian affiliations seriously - this is clear in it''s motto Iman, taqwa and JIHAD - after al if it was genuinely multi-religious would it be promoting a single religious world view and that too, a radical Wahabi one?

I can name off the top of my head, some serving Ahmadi General's in the PA - the same that have been declared as non-Muslim by ZAB a civilian. Service is open to all the citizens of the country.

 

[muse]

bUT these are toeksm - the very fact that you know them by their religion is proof of their tokenism

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

Yes, exactly what I am suggesting - that the army is paper tiger that is more concerned with religious purity than it is anything else


But this is misrepresentation - The army is not multiple faiths, it is in fact tokemism - the army does not take citizenship seriously, rather it takes religious and sectarian affiliations seriously - this is clear in it''s motto Iman, taqwa and JIHAD - after al if it was genuinely multi-religious would it be promoting a single religious world view and that too, a radical Wahabi one?

the Army is a product of the country and the common people that comprise the country (less so just post partition when only the sons of the bourgeoise primarily were the ones who used to enlist)

what you call ''tokemism'' (i think you meant tokenism) is really just fact. If what you said were true, then why was a former GOC SSG from a minority sect?

why was a former COAS from a minority sect?


If you think that to get promoted one must be a ''wahhaby'' then you are very sadly mistaken. Yeah, the serving top brass look like real ''wahhabys'' if i ever met one!

---------- Post added at 02:15 AM ---------- Previous post was at 02:14 AM ----------

bUT these are toeksm - the very fact that you know them by their religion is proof of their tokenism

well you seem to ''know'' them all as wahhabys.....so what difference does it make?

 

[muse]

NOt at all the army creates it's own recruits - it indoctrinates and trains -- that is why army and civilians are always two different cultural modes