More power to Pakistan's jihadis.

[praful]

so do we have an open season on idiotic racist comments on Defence.pk now or is this allowance only accorded to people living under ISI's protection..

Mods are quite biased on this forum. I was banned for 3 weeks for these comment

This are exceptions and they had created terror at home only but pakistani nationals have the history of doing terrorism in different countries you can't ignore that. as per the studies for past 5 years 44 % of terrorist acts have been done by pakistani trained terrorists. You would be a fool to ignore these facts. A comprehensive investigation is necessary.

Aryan I advice you to talk facts rather than giving plain rhetoric.

 

[muse]

the usual sensationalist rhetoric, sans fact will not get you anywhere, dude....


what a stupid thread....even a serving Brig. is facing action for alleged ties to an Islamist group (a non-militant one at that!) and here you guys go (especially the dot-heads on this forum) not only in a failed attempt to malign PA (on a DEFENCE FORUM OF PAKISTAN at that!) and as usual you losers dont even know what the meaning or significance of ''jihad'' REALLY is

Is it not a fact that the super Muzloum and the Pakistan army could careless about love or faith? In fact you are simply refusing to accept facts.


And I don't the significance of Jihad? How much more do I have to see of the significance of Jihad, before I can decide this thing is dangerous and unworthy of state policy? - and you say I and losers (liberal fascists) such as myself don't get Jihad?

Is Pakistan not being consumed by Islamist terror??

And is it not a fact that Pakistan arm,y created these jihadi proxies in the first place??

See AZ, these are facts - you claim these are not facts - so I guess you imagine the world has as short a attention span as you are exhibiting -- You say A army officer is being held for links with Islamists, and yet you will not grant that attempts on a sitting president were all done by serving and retired officers and NCO's and you will not grant that the attack on the GHQ was directed by a former army man, and you will not grant that the PN base attack was a inside job.

If it really bothers you that others know these facts - we should try and change the conditions that led to these instead of playing the denial game.

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

Is it not a fact that the super Muzloum and the Pakistan army could careless about love or faith? In fact you are simply refusing to accept facts.

garbage

And I don't the significance of Jihad? How much more do I have to see of the significance of Jihad, before I can decide this thing is dangerous and unworthy of state policy?

and you say I and losers (liberal fascists) such as myself don't get Jihad?

yes.....but that's not my problem so who am I to judge

Is Pakistan not being consumed by Islamist terror??

terrorism has caused harm and injury to the precious lives of civilians, jawans in the line of duty (which is slightly more 'justifiable') and damage to private/public property....terrorism does not have a religion, nor do terrorists

And is it not a fact that Pakistan arm,y created these jihadi proxies in the first place??

Pakistan was instrumental in the training and support of the anti soviet mujahideen. It was a world effort, dont give all the credit to Pakistan alone. Did it have blowback effects and cause social problems? Yes it did. But I personally have zero regrets over this policy. And if given the chance, I would have done it again 500,000 times.. No problem.

on proxies -- well, why look at Pakistan singly. Every country has them. Even that island nation in which you are sitting.

See AZ, these are facts - you claim these are not facts - so I guess you imagine the world has as short a attention span as you are exhibiting --

well, not the WHOLE world. But a lot of people do, yes.

You say A army officer is being held for links with Islamists, and yet you will not grant that attempts on a sitting president were all done by serving and retired officers and NCO's and you will not grant that the attack on the GHQ was directed by a former army man, and you will not grant that the PN base attack was a inside job.
If it really bothers you that others know these facts - we should try and change the conditions that led to these instead of playing the denial game.

it appears it is you (perhaps at no fault of your own) who has short attention span. I have written extensively on this forum about these things. You are not in a position to tell me what I do and do not know or think. Though you do i assume have the capability to scroll through things I have stated in these issues in order to know my views on it.

Mehran incident suspects are still being remanded; some may be at large. They will be caught. Since action is being taken, i dont know why you still cry about it that you feel the need to villify an entire institution. Same goes for GHQ attack. Army isnt sitting idly. Arrests are still being made. It has nothing to do with me being bothered. Though i will confess that what bothers me is when people like you and these dot-headed followers of yours conveniently cherry-pick and mistake personal opinion as fact ---in the absence of any solid evidence or any input of substantive qualitiative nature.


you are very emotional, and perhaps it causes you to exaggerate, sensationalize and blow things out of proportion. You really shouldn't do that.

 

[muse]

AZ

Don't hide behind the silly terrorism has no religion - no suicide bomber is shouting Yahweh Khair, or Jesus Khair, or Bhagwan khair, they are shouting Allah khair - do you suppose Allah is tied to any religion??

You say I and others don't get Jihad - brother it is you who does not get it -- It isn't some utopian wonderland, it mad dog mean, it's sole purpose is to bring about submission of the enemy - any enemy - today me, tomorrow you.

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

AZ

Don't hide behind the silly terrorism has no religion

Why? I doubt Anders Breivik could have possibly been a ''proper'' Christian either, after the massacre he pulled off in Norway....no religion on the face of this planet justifies murder of innocent people. If you have a problem with that simple statement or try to find some superficial way to argue against it, then I have no further need to interact with you.

especially when you, in a pompous and mocking way, refer to Muslims as ''super Muzloum'' (not just in this thread either)

I believe in enlightened moderation in all spheres of life. But you are just being a troll.

You say I and others don't get Jihad - brother it is you who does not get it

we already discussed this in that other (almost equally stupid) thread, Muse. No need to delve into it further. At this point, I dont require people to tell me what I get and what I don't get. Don't try to talk down on me as if i am the student and you are the professor. Especially when i've already been quite clear on my views on this matter. Take it or leave.

It isn't some utopian wonderland, it mad dog mean, it's sole purpose is to bring about submission of the enemy

Jihad? really? the biggest jihad is an internal one, Muse. Xeric already responded to you quite well; again, i havent the time to enlighten you on something when you so dogmatically cling on to your own frame of thought.

as for the notion of ''submission of the enemy'' -- well me personally, I have no qualms about that. I don't care much about the religion or ideology of a fellow soldier. As long as his duty and loyalty is to the state and we fight till the last drop of blood as ordered against a commonly identified enemy --that's all i care about as a soldier.

any enemy - today me, tomorrow you.

i can defend myself and i'm not scared of anybody


our people, who have suffered due to terrorism, are not hiding at home like cowards. Terrorism has caused many problems but it hasnt changed who we are and certainly we havent been bombed into submission.

Pakistan will prevail. The enemies of Pakistan will bleed, and they will lose. In the end, that is what will happen.

 

[Gautam]

exactly...it's our problem and we are dealing with it...why dont you dot-heads do something about the plethora of ills and insurgency in your own country instead of worrying about us?

Its quite evident who is being dot head here. its you. you are not capable of taking care of your problems hence we are worried now. do something dot head

 

[Rafi]

AZ you shut the usual suspects mouths - what interests me is that our neighbors who have their own problems - are yapping on something that does not concern them at all.

 

[muse]

Jihad? really? the biggest jihad is an internal one, i havent the time to enlighten you on something when you so dogmatically cling on to your own frame of thought.

'
Yaara that's aline for the horrible Hindu and the firengi -- reality is that is "internal" stuff is just gobbledy gook, it justifies the idea of Jihad -- Do you have an example of how the army and the state can do this "internal" jihad?? Apni billi apneh se meow?

as for the notion of ''submission of the enemy'' -- well me personally, I have no qualms about that. I don't care much about the religion or ideology of a fellow soldier. As long as his duty and loyalty is to the state and we fight till the last drop of blood as ordered against a commonly identified enemy --that's all i care about as a soldier.

You are taking notes from Nukilr - this isn't about you -- It's about the ideology the army is being fed, the ideology the society is being fed

 

[Jango]

and muse is bringing the same issue , in a thread of Gen Ashfaq Pervaiz Kayani to a thread about the claim of the army of clearing 80% mohmand agency, and to a thread of power to Militants and their tactics. Jeez

 

[muse]

and muse is bringing the same issue , in a thread of Gen Ashfaq Pervaiz Kayani to a thread about the claim of the army of clearing 80% mohmand agency, and to a thread of power to Militants and their tactics. Jeez

I don't understand what has become of you guys - you have been reduced to a bunch of group thinkers - Are you so insecure that a bunch of people who have so little regard for as to refer to them as dot heads, will see that we are really struggling with this issue?

It seems there are some who think the purpose of being here is to nod in agreement - all is ok

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

'
Yaara that's aline for the horrible Hindu and the firengi -- reality is that is "internal" stuff is just gobbledy gook, it justifies the idea of Jihad -- Do you have an example of how the army and the state can do this "internal" jihad??

well we would agree on one thing (MAYBE)

religion is between MAN & GOD. So internal Jihad is between MAN & GOD. It's not something that is discussed during a war game exercise or at the Mess.

the type of ''jihad'' called for by the terrorists who happen to call themselves Muslims is not the ''jihad'' that majority of Pakistanis accept or see as legitimate. That is why fatwas have been issued to condemn their 'jihadist' approach and activities

You are taking notes from Nukilr - this isn't about you -- It's about the ideology the army is being fed, the ideology the society is being fed

have you ever enlisted and served in the Army? You always talk about ''ideology of the army''

now, i will ask you to define for me this ideology so that I can know what you are talking about when you say ''army ideology''


in your next reply, i expect you to come up with a full definition, in the interests of clearing out or perhaps addressing confusions (reservations) I am having from your posts

 

[Rafi]

I don't understand what has become of you guys - you have been reduced to a bunch of group thinkers - Are you so insecure that a bunch of people who have so little regard for as to refer to them as dot heads, will see that we are really struggling with this issue?

It seems there are some who think the purpose of being here is to nod in agreement - all is ok

I have a capital suggestion, don't know how old you are, but why don't you join the PA - get promoted through the ranks, eventually become Army Chief, institute the changes making the Army in your image, retire as the legend that you will become.

 

[Rafi]

well we would agree on one thing (MAYBE)

religion is between MAN & GOD. So internal Jihad is between MAN & GOD. It's not something that is discussed during a war game exercise or at the Mess.

the type of ''jihad'' called for by the terrorists who happen to call themselves Muslims is not the ''jihad'' that majority of Pakistanis accept or see as legitimate. That is why fatwas have been issued to condemn their 'jihadist' approach and activities




have you ever enlisted and served in the Army? You always talk about ''ideology of the army''

now, i will ask you to define for me this ideology so that I can know what you are talking about when you say ''army ideology''


in your next reply, i expect you to come up with a full definition, in the interests of clearing out or perhaps addressing confusions (reservations) I am having from your posts

Ideology of the Army LoL - when you have every Muslim sect and even Ahmadies serving as General's and non-Muslims serving together. This is the ideology of the army.

 

[muse]

have you ever enlisted and served in the Army? You always talk about ''ideology of the army''

Wow - so only those in the army can speak of such matters - Only astronomers can speak of stars? And I don't do requests - I carry only my argument not yours or anybody elses - No offense

Rafi - that's the propaganda of the army - the ideology of the army is Jihad

 

[Jango]

and muse is bringing the same issue , in a thread of Gen Ashfaq Pervaiz Kayani to a thread about the claim of the army of clearing 80% mohmand agency, and to a thread of power to Militants and their tactics. Jeez

Well muse, what are you suggesting then?. The army has been mullah invaded and the officers have only Jihad on their mind.
Well muse, the officers, go to their offices, do some training, grab a file, do some signs, authorise some ADM movement, sign the file for the use of fuel reserved for training for ADM duty, practically lying, then the tea break in the ante room and the officers discuss anything but Islamism. and then the 2IC sends a file through the NCO to the CO 'sir ji, 2IC sahib nay file bheji hai, SOP likhni hai kal sham kay ladies function kay liyay( Hardly islamist), Co says 'o yaar store se pichlay sal ki SOP nikal kar lao, copies it, and there you have it. A infantry officer that is. Go home, see the family, eat some, sleep, go to golf or jogging or some outing, come home, watch capital talk, then go to bazaar or stay home and enjoy with the family, and sleep again.

A aviation pilot flies a heli all day, or organizes flights, goes home, sleeps, does a night time flight to fill in his hours for the month. the single officers go to the mess to eat lunch, come to the room, discuss about some girls, cigarettes, and other stuff. Then they go to the mess bar at evening, do some cigarettes, drink some coke, play snooker, and then finish.

Now adays, officers are anything but Islamist or Jihadist. Dont bring in the Afghan thing now. We had to do it, w had to stop ruskies from invading a country, and dont blame only Pakistan for it.