More patriotic than Pak Fouj, Imran Khan is guilty

[Wolfhunter]

It's clear who's behind the assassination attempt on Imran Khan. Why hide it anymore...? Its Pakistan Army - looking to assassinate him for some goals and gains beyond comprehension.

Mind it, it was one person who divided Pakistan before—another military general—and the new lunatics are willing to break Pakistan one more time. There is something bigger than this state, bigger than this motherland, and bigger than this nation that they want to achieve and sacrifice everything else for, even their own honour and the honour of the institution of the armed forces. Witness how they're bringing TTP back into Pakistan, and how they're uniting MQM to shatter Karachi one more time, the economic centre of this financially struggling country. It feels like the elimination of terrorism was never their goal, and they wish for this nation to continue to suffer. I hope they're being compensated enough and promised eternal life as a result.

Welcome the incomprehensible wisdom that runs through the blood of the army of this state. Witness the love they have for this country and experience what they do to its people and the state when they have power.

Salute!

Oh the Imran Khan bumchum groupies have arrived.

 

[Goenitz]

Mera kutta kutta tera kutta tommy nahin.. saaray hi kuttay hain. Kutton ka mulk hai tu fauj bhi kutti hai.

Yes, the values argument is true, but the institution has a responsibility too. So, a common man can be lazy, reckless, and pacifist but an army man mustn't. A common man can be biased and unfair but a judge cannot be.

If the establishment can take credit for all good things then Pakistanis are also ones cheering them on three years ago like they are everyone’s dad(and many cheerleaders would call me Indian when I would point out issues)…

Failure is an orphan anyway but helping in constitutional things like in disaster management or security situation is alright. Leading Pak economy, foreign policy, etc toward better is acceptable (Machiavel's approach) but going 180 to your role is unjustifiable.

but PTI soft corner for TTP is not hidden. they are partners in it. they never hid their opposition towards army operations against TTP. The delegation of clerics sent to Kabul to settle with TTP was not Army exclusive.

IK trusted the face-value and pursued a political approach. Like he trusted many MNAs, military leadership, Chief EC or TTP. It can be a political issue but mainly it is an ideological issue coupled by crime, smuggling, power monopoly, etc.
Anyway, once one entity raises arms, it should be dealt with arms.

 

[Irfan Baloch]

IK trusted the face-value and pursued a political approach. Like he trusted many MNAs, military leadership, Chief EC or TTP. It can be a political issue but mainly it is an ideological issue coupled by crime, smuggling, power monopoly, etc.
Anyway, once one entity raises arms, it should be dealt with arms.

I agree with you that its an ideological issue for us. TTP is very clear in its mind but our population, our politicians, our civilian servants and our military is not very coherent why we must fight the TTP? (if at all we need to fight TTP).

I wanted feedback from our posters based on an article why TTP is undefeatable.

Why the TTP is undefeatable

The mother of all questions is never asked – why should Pakistan fight the TTP?

www.dawn.com

AS the Pakistani Taliban (TTP) ramp up their murderous attacks on Pakistani soldiers, ISI officers, police, and ordinary citizens, the men who run Pakistan’s security establishment are trotting out the usual bluff and bluster.

there is a failure in convincing the public that TTP is a mortal enemy and must be culled. that failure is at state level, institutions level and political level. the shock of APS tragedy was short lived. people on this very forum are questioning the fight against TTP. giving reasons that any operations against TTP results in loss of life. they are implicitly advising us to open dialogue with TTP that has made demands re FATA merger and sheriah (how very noble).

PTI, clerics and Military leadership was indeed on same page and gave the Afghan Taliban to prove their claim that they can get sense into TTP and stop the fight but it didn't materialize the way Afghan Taliban said. they changed their stance and TTP used the lull in last two or more years to regroup and are now threatening the state again.

 

[SQ8]

ہم تو گھر سے انسان کے بچے بھیجتے ہیں لیکن پی ایم اے میں جا کر نا جانے کیا ہو جاتا ہے انکو جب واپس آتے ہین تو گھر والے پریشان ہو جاتے ہیں کہ انکے لڑکے کو کیا ہو گیا

That is a total lie every Pakistani tells themselves. Most brats get to see the social filth long before PMA touches them and take it with them. From deep rooted selfish patriarchy and emphasis on materialism to seeing a corrupt system with bribery and nepotism - this is all taken to PMA. PmA can tell them that it is wrong but when even the instructors in private cannot escape from social evils it doesn’t take long for laftains and captaans to return to life as usual.

it doesn’t help that the talk of plots and business by their superiors in private settings is heard as well so whatever the adults do, the young ones will follow.

 

[Goenitz]

I wanted feedback from our posters based on an article why TTP is undefeatable.

It isn't but they were born after years of many factors (poverty, radicalisation, perennial wars etc.). You cannot take a single step to revert that.
15 years of the right course are needed. Radicalisation is spreading. ISI officers are gunned down in south Punjab, TLP, etc. Right education and good economy are ways to deal with it.

You need a political leader to assure people that they are being represented (PTM, ANP, PTI).

Lastly, secured border and physical pressure (covert ops, fencing, trade blockades, etc.)

 

[Jazzbot]

At this rate every other IK supporter will be copying Indians.

“My girlfriends pictures were leaked and it was ISI and Fauj!!”

“My dog was hit by a truck driver high on naswar.. it was supplied by ISI and Fauj!!”

“My parents say I was born by accident… it was ISI and Fauj behind it!”

Sadly, constructive and better articulated criticism with historical context dies when people starting ranting out of justifiable but completely haphazard anger

Chal bhai, please explain who filed all those 20+ FIRs against Arshad Sharif under serious allegations all over Pakistan?

I get your point, unnecessary criticism on Pak establishment cannot be justified but what about the genuine criticism? Having the audacity to come up and claim that Pak establishment is crystal clear from all the allegations of political engineering, under the table deals with corrupt mafias, forced abductions, arrests and tortures of journos and political rivals recently is not gonna work anymore. Please are not living in 80s where PTV was only source of information. The sooner you and your likes in GHQ will realize this is better for everyone, Sir.

 

[SQ8]

Yes, the values argument is true, but the institution has a responsibility too. So, a common man can be lazy, reckless, and pacifist but an army man mustn't. A common man can be biased and unfair but a judge cannot be.

Failure is an orphan anyway but helping in constitutional things like in disaster management or security situation is alright. Leading Pak economy, foreign policy, etc toward better is acceptable (Machiavel's approach) but going 180 to your role is unjustifiable.

IK trusted the face-value and pursued a political approach. Like he trusted many MNAs, military leadership, Chief EC or TTP. It can be a political issue but mainly it is an ideological issue coupled by crime, smuggling, power monopoly, etc.
Anyway, once one entity raises arms, it should be dealt with arms.

It is very much unjustifiable - but part of it is also cultural narratives within the military itself. There is a lot of “bloody civilians” talk by a few uncouth fellows who are superiors (and think of themselves in that manner in a lot of respects) and part is also “we have to be better” from PmA going into “we are better” by default.

That cannot be erased unless there is a popular intellectual led narrative (which the PTi had until it succumbed to usual vote bank politics) that can stand up and be better than what PmA generally produces.

Make no mistake, the civil military tussle even goes on today in the US except that they won that narrative a long time ago that the constitution is superior and so no matter how strongly a cult of personalities emerges like Mc Chrystal or Petraus they can never question their commander in chief(president) in decisions at the end

 

[HAIDER]

TTP has nothing to do with the army, that's far fetched.

The rest could possibly be true but you're overthinking it - these are simple shallow minded individuals, they worship $$$.

Their primary interests are securing large amounts of $$$ in their accounts. Political engineering is just them bringing their favourite business partners to power.

Ahsan ullah Ahsan released by Pak army. Check Gen Asif Ghafoor's press conference

 

[TheSolution]

Ahsan ullah Ahsan released by Pak army.

Hundreds were released after peace talks.

Many "escaped" (insiders who actually aided terrorists due to ideological reasons)

There were many cases of soldiers themselves leading attacks for the same reason above.

 

[HAIDER]

Hundreds were released after peace talks.

Many "escaped" (insiders who actually aided terrorists due to ideological reasons)

There were many cases of soldiers themselves leading attacks for the same reason above.

Nothing worked that way, these are high profile terrorists. Do you know where Ahsan Ullah Ahsan lived all those years and where TTP launching pad was located in Afghanistan? . Dig in old interviews of Ashan ullah Ashan. Especially one with Saleem Safi.

 

[TheSolution]

Dig in old interviews of Ashan ullah Ashan. Especially one with Saleem Safi.

I will do

 

[Goenitz]

Ahsan ullah Ahsan released by Pak army. Check Gen Asif Ghafoor's press conference

It is a matter of perspective. I don't like TTP getting a free-pass or truce time, but perhaps Ehsan did something valuable. That is why he isn't in Afg but in Turkey. Anyway, TTP has done a lot of damage and takeback its promises so, we need to eliminate them.

 

[TheSolution]

I agree with you that its an ideological issue for us. TTP is very clear in its mind but our population, our politicians, our civilian servants and our military is not very coherent why we must fight the TTP? (if at all we need to fight TTP).

I wanted feedback from our posters based on an article why TTP is undefeatable.

Why the TTP is undefeatable

The mother of all questions is never asked – why should Pakistan fight the TTP?

www.dawn.com

AS the Pakistani Taliban (TTP) ramp up their murderous attacks on Pakistani soldiers, ISI officers, police, and ordinary citizens, the men who run Pakistan’s security establishment are trotting out the usual bluff and bluster.

there is a failure in convincing the public that TTP is a mortal enemy and must be culled. that failure is at state level, institutions level and political level. the shock of APS tragedy was short lived. people on this very forum are questioning the fight against TTP. giving reasons that any operations against TTP results in loss of life. they are implicitly advising us to open dialogue with TTP that has made demands re FATA merger and sheriah (how very noble).

PTI, clerics and Military leadership was indeed on same page and gave the Afghan Taliban to prove their claim that they can get sense into TTP and stop the fight but it didn't materialize the way Afghan Taliban said. they changed their stance and TTP used the lull in last two or more years to regroup and are now threatening the state again.

When you call yourself an Islamic Republic but then release things like Joyland, even those who are not radical will choose to support extremists like TTP over the opposite extreme end.

I believe a solution similar to @Sayfullah 's suggestion is required. After that TTP will be destroyed and people will be cooperative under a national political framework through talks.

 

[Imran Khan]

یا اللہ مجھے معاف فرما میں نے کبھی مسلسل کئی سال فوجی کٹ بال کٹوائے تھے میں اپنی اس حرکت پر نادم ہوں اور معافی کا طلبگار ہوں

 

[HAIDER]

It is a matter of perspective. I don't like TTP getting a free-pass or truce time, but perhaps Ehsan did something valuable. That is why he isn't in Afg but in Turkey. Anyway, TTP has done a lot of damage and takeback its promises so, we need to eliminate them.

Check Asif Ghafoor's press briefing, he was released on what ground? . That is one of the reasons, the parents of shaheed kids are extremely angry at our army.