Modern Sub Machine Carbine / MSMC submachine gun (India)

[Abingdonboy]

one some threads I can just copy paste

I've long been of the belief the DRDO/OFB were WELL behind the curve when it came to small arms, they seemed to adopt a 20th century mindset even this far into the 21st century!

It was for this reason I had been highly skeptical of the DRDO's MCIWS until I had seen it. I have to say they have silenced a lot of my doubting. There is a long way to go but I'm glad they seem to be a bit more up to contemporary standards:

A nice evolution of the INSAS still a long way to go though....

 

[MilSpec]

I heard the NSG has trailed the MSMC, not sure of the outcome of such user trails. However I heard from a separate source the NSG had placed an order but can't confirm this.

If I was to design a SMG I would have chosen the 9mm or the .40S&W as the caliber of choice.... Another caliber although not so popular would be the 7.62x25 Tokarev...

 

[Abingdonboy]

I would highly doubt acceptance, unless there is change in the caliber...

The NSG are using the 9mm MP-5 as it stands so there's scope to replace it in certain activities the NSG engages in but will have to wait for confirmation. Ideally I'd like the NSG to replace all 9mm MP-5s with a 5.56MM Carbine (X95 seems like an ideal candidate) in all their SAG HITs.

The NSG need to look ahead and preempt a disaster before it occurs. Using the 9mm calibre for 90% of their men in the SAG HITs is leaving the door open for a bloody mess IMHO.

 

[MilSpec]

I've long been of the belief the DRDO/OFB were WELL behind the curve when it came to small arms, they seemed to adopt a 20th century mindset even this far into the 21st century!

It was for this reason I had been highly skeptical of the DRDO's MCIWS until I had seen it. I have to say they have silenced a lot of my doubting. There is a long way to go but I'm glad they seem to be a bit more up to contemporary standards:

A nice evolution of the INSAS still a long way to go though....

Dear,

I think MCIWS deserves a through review, I haven't gotten a chance to look into it, but just from the appearance to me it looks like a design based on a Ar15/M16 receiver with quick barrel change lug with long stroke gas piston instead of the direct gas impingement. A la-HK416 approach with modularity, (we often forget that AR15 platform is the first modular system to begin with)

The NSG are using the 9mm MP-5 as it stands so there's scope to replace it in certain activities the NSG engages in but will have to wait for confirmation. Ideally I'd like the NSG to replace all 9mm MP-5s with a 5.56MM Carbine (X95 seems like an ideal candidate) in all their SAG HITs.

The NSG need to look ahead and preempt a disaster before it occurs. Using the 9mm calibre for 90% of their men in the SAG HITs is leaving the door open for a bloody mess IMHO.

Only the teams involved in the cqb will use a pistol caliber smg, not all of them, and just a reminder msmc is 5.56x30 not 5.56 x45 nato...Also very common among spec ops personell to carry a assault rifle along with a smg.

 

[Abingdonboy]

Dear,

I think MCIWS deserves a through review, I haven't gotten a chance to look into it, but just from the appearance to me it looks like a design based on a Ar15/M16 receiver with quick barrel change lug with long stroke gas piston instead of the direct gas impingement. A la-HK416 approach with modularity, (we often forget that AR15 platform is the first modular system to begin with)

You are right on all accounts (as per your initial reactions). Wrt modularity and hence multi-cal capability, it is exactly what the IA asked for. I hope it is as rugged as the INSAS has proven to be and that the IA goes along with proper accessories for the MCIWS i.e. flashlights, RDS, thermal imaging scopes etc etc the addition of significantly more p-rails should aid this.

 

[MilSpec]

@Abingdonboy you know, I have always thought that Insas got much less credit than it deserved, I think it was a very good design, If it ever came to surplus market, i will definitely get one.

 

[Abingdonboy]

Only the teams involved in the cqb will use a pistol caliber smg, not all of them, and just a reminder msmc is 5.56x30 not 5.56 x45 nato...Also very common among spec ops personell to carry a assault rifle along with a smg.

You're right, the NSG teams going into CQB environments are the ones currently using pistol calibre SMGs (9mm MP-5s). Snipers and others are equipped with rifle rounds (5.56mm/7.62mm) for their various tasks.

However post 26/11 the NSG took the step of equipping 1-2 members in a 8-10 man HIT (standard assault team of the NSG) are equipped with a SIG-552 (5.56mm calibre) along with 1 man (breacher) with a shotgun . This would allow a standard NSG team to have the capability to take on bad guys whether they be wearing BPJs or not and that to at greater ranges. As such I don't understand why the entire HIT assault team shouldn't carry an assault rifle as having a 9mm round amongst most of the assaulters is surely inviting trouble when the only alternative when facing a BPJ waring bad guy would be a head shot and would thus require the operator to be at close range to the baddie. When the Bad guy is likely to be armed with a 7.62mm round it is clear who's at more risk in this situation.




I guess the only risk of this is over penetration and thus I would still advocate the 9mm calibre for the NSG assaulters taking down a plane or the like.

@Abingdonboy you know, I have always thought that Insas got much less credit than it deserved, I think it was a very good design, If it ever came to surplus market, i will definitely get one.

From what I've heard, once the initial (well publicised) issues with the INSAS were addressed the rifle performed in an excellent manner, it is very accurate, very rugged and very easy to maintain not to mention cheap. Yes it lacks the refinement of Western rifles but it does the job and was a rifle for its time that served the Indian Mil well.