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Mig 29 bought for BAF?

That's why PAF buying 36 FC-20's and 150 more on order.

I heard J-10B is superior/equal to F-16 blk 60
Do have some source to confirm ur claim that j10B is superior to ''F-16 block 60''

J10B is no doubt a good plane but i don't see how it could beat F16 block 60 any day soon????
F-16 block 60 is one of the finest piece of american engineering which has evolved over decades of experience n its has proved its worth in many battles that it fought

U just can't compare such a plane to F-16s about whose specs u urself won't be sure...
 
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With due respect, this is not evidence. It's just a fawning, anecdotal piece about failing Russian components and what the Chinese can manufacture. There's even some throw away quote at the end by a 'Russian'. Sounds like propaganda but not Chinese propaganda. Is this from a Pakistani newspaper?

Do you have any actual evidence i.e. real world data or tangible analysis that Chinese avionics is superior or even considered superior to Russian avionics?

StrategyCenter is a widely recognised American military think-tank organization based in Virginia, US.

This is not a Pakistani source.

It is good to research before making silly accusations. Even a cursory look at the link would have shown you muliple quotes by Russian engineers and officials.

Numerous sources point to the fact that Chinese avionics have surpassed the Russians, after over a decade of Chinese investing heavily in this area while the Russian aero sector experienced a dearth of funding. Janes did a piece in 2011 which analyzed the effectiveness of China's main AMRAAM-equivalent BVR missile, the SD-10A(not the latest SD-10B now released), and stated that the missile was roughly at par with AIM-120C5(slightly older AMRAAM) and more sophisticated and superior to the Russian R-77.

You should research into this, most serious analysts agree on this point. Often it's only Russians on forums who disagree(and perhaps Indians, who use numerous Russian products).
 
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Do have some source to confirm ur claim that j10B is superior to ''F-16 block 60''

J10B is no doubt a good plane but i don't see how it could beat F16 block 60 any day soon????
F-16 block 60 is one of the finest piece of american engineering which has evolved over decades of experience n its has proved its worth in many battles that it fought

U just can't compare such a plane to F-16s about whose specs u urself won't be sure...

F-16 Block 60 hasn't fought any battles and it's equipment and avionics have not, in fact, been tested in battlefield conditions for decades.

J-10 is more in the class of the Euro-canard fighters, it's overall delta wing design, size and payload capacity are closer to the Eurofighter or the Rafale's.

The AN/APG-80 radar on the Block-60 was a tremendous achievement, making an AESA radar work within the power/electric output and cooling limitations of the F-16 design(which was designed in the 70s for older Pulse Doppler radars). J-10's radar(or, for that matter, the Eurofighter or Rafales under-development AESA radar), wouldn't have to work under those limitations.

So it's a very subjective call on which aircraft is superior. F-16 Block 60(which is an export-level technology for the US, not their latest and greatest F-22/F-35 level tech. USAF doesn't plan on inducting Block-60), is not obviously superior to the J-10B, which actually does represent China's latest avionics capabilities which the PLAAF will induct.
 
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F-16 Block 60 hasn't fought any battles and it's equipment and avionics have not, in fact, been tested in battlefield conditions for decades.

J-10 is more in the class of the Euro-canard fighters, it's overall delta wing design, size and payload capacity are closer to the Eurofighter or the Rafale's.

The AN/APG-80 radar on the Block-60 was a tremendous achievement, making an AESA radar work within the power/electric output and cooling limitations of the F-16 design(which was designed in the 70s for older Pulse Doppler radars). J-10's radar(or, for that matter, the Eurofighter or Rafales under-development AESA radar), wouldn't have to work under those limitations.

So it's a very subjective call on which aircraft is superior. F-16 Block 60(which is an export-level technology for the US, not their latest and greatest F-22/F-35 level tech. USAF doesn't plan on inducting Block-60), is not obviously superior to the J-10B, which actually does represent China's latest avionics capabilities which the PLAAF will induct.

From what I have read, I kind of agree with this assessment. F-16 block 60 was putting the latest avionics on an older platform, on the other hand j10 is a newer platform based on Israeli Lavi which was designed to be superior to F-16. Only thing I am not sure about is Chinese avionics. I will look into it.
 
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F-16 Block 60 hasn't fought any battles and it's equipment and avionics have not, in fact, been tested in battlefield conditions for decades.

J-10 is more in the class of the Euro-canard fighters, it's overall delta wing design, size and payload capacity are closer to the Eurofighter or the Rafale's.

The AN/APG-80 radar on the Block-60 was a tremendous achievement, making an AESA radar work within the power/electric output and cooling limitations of the F-16 design(which was designed in the 70s for older Pulse Doppler radars). J-10's radar(or, for that matter, the Eurofighter or Rafales under-development AESA radar), wouldn't have to work under those limitations.

So it's a very subjective call on which aircraft is superior. F-16 Block 60(which is an export-level technology for the US, not their latest and greatest F-22/F-35 level tech. USAF doesn't plan on inducting Block-60), is not obviously superior to the J-10B, which actually does represent China's latest avionics capabilities which the PLAAF will induct.
what i meant to say was not that f16 block 60 has been fighting for decades
I meant to say that ''F-16s'' have been fighting for decades n as a result of all the expertise they gained lead to the evolution of F-16 block 60

N just adding canards doesn't mean one jet is superior to other

Another thing u mentioned was j10's payload is in lines with rafale n eurofighter than i would like to remind u that both rafale n eurofighter r twin engine so they can easily carry higher payload but thats not the case with j10
So i would like to see the source for ur claim

F-16 block 60 has an AESA radar which is definately superior to j10B's radar
Even if we leave other things aside this AESA radar alone could prove to be a game changer in battlefield

I knw that US is not in a mood to add more F-16s to its fleet but thats bcoz they r moving to the next level ''Stleath''(F-35)
N not bcoz F-16 is not good plane
N even today F-16s can give a tough fight to any 4+ generation fighter

Another thing u r forgeting is nobody knws about the actual performance of J10s

From all the info we have we can say that J10B can give a tough fight to F16 block 60 but that doesn't prove its superior

So all i meant was when u don't knw the real specs of a plane how can u compare it other n claim that its superior????
 
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what i meant to say was not that f16 block 60 has been fighting for decades
I meant to say that ''F-16s'' have been fighting for decades n as a result of all the expertise they gained lead to the evolution of F-16 block 60

N just adding canards doesn't mean one jet is superior to other

Another thing u mentioned was j10's payload is in lines with rafale n eurofighter than i would like to remind u that both rafale n eurofighter r twin engine so they can easily carry higher payload but thats not the case with j10
So i would like to see the source for ur claim

F-16 block 60 has an AESA radar which is definately superior to j10B's radar
Even if we leave other things aside this AESA radar alone could prove to be a game changer in battlefield

I knw that US is not in a mood to add more F-16s to its fleet but thats bcoz they r moving to the next level ''Stleath''(F-35)
N not bcoz F-16 is not good plane
N even today F-16s can give a tough fight to any 4+ generation fighter

Another thing u r forgeting is nobody knws about the actual performance of J10s

From all the info we have we can say that J10B can give a tough fight to F16 block 60 but that doesn't prove its superior

So all i meant was when u don't knw the real specs of a plane how can u compare it other n claim that its superior????

Here is a comparison:
J-10 vs F-16

It shows that BVR range for j10 is higher, but j10 BVR rating is 60% whereas f16 c/d is 80%, what does that mean?

But f16 is probably not an option for Bangladesh.
 
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@yogi Look at what I precisely said. I said that the overall design and fighter class, the J-10B is CLOSER to the Euro-canards than to an F-16. Despite being single-engined, the J-10 is a large delta-wing aircraft. The Chinese have alot more $, and they can spend more on R&D than the cash-strapped Europeans, clearly the Chinese aeronautics sector is progressing very rapidly but it's hard to say who is ahead here. For our JF-17s, we wanted to go for Selex Galileo radars(same firm that makes radars for the Eurofighter), we use their radars on our F-7Ps and F-7PGs. Selex radars were tested in the JF-17's and China's offering, KLJ-07(derived from J-10's KLJ-10 radar) outperformed the Selex one in every way. To be fair though, Selex probably doesn't sell it's top-end stuff that it makes for their own Eurofighters.

So like I said, it's a very subjective call, to say which is better.

Alot depends on fighter pilot skills. PAF pilots in F-16s took Eurofighters out in mock engagements, winning three out of three engagements. Seniors here the reason for those wins to be that PAF pilots had close-in engagement drilled into them, after India got BVR missiles in the 90's but the US crippled us with sanctions after they didn't need us for the Soviet-Afghan war. So pilots had to be trained in scenarios where the enemy would be able to fire first, and our pilots would have to evade and close in to be able to engage. While the European doctrine has been to depend on BVR missiles and fire from safe distances. Not something new for us either, from the very beginning PAF had to train and prepare itself to fight an adversary with an airforce five times bigger. And that shows, even in our track record when PAF pilots were deployed in Arab aircraft against the Israeli AF, and their performance shook the Israelis enough that they hastily arranged for "native" speaking radio operators(probably Indian Sikh) who spoke broken Urdu mixed with Punjabi, trying to get our pilots to land on an airbase the Israeli army had captured.

I remember Indians here went nuts when the Eurofighter story broke out, ripping the story apart and how it couldn't possibly be true. Eventually, Alan Warnes, chief editor of AFM confirmed that it was completely true and that the Eurofighters PAF had engaged were Italian.

Same Alan Warnes also tweeted before the 2012 Dubai airshow that there was a possibility of PAF JF-17's being pitted against Eurofighters, as this was something the PAF was interested in, but he later reported that the Eurofighter Consortium folks present at that airshow backed out - this would have been really bad publicity for them, perhaps they were a little freaked out after our pilots beating them 3-0 earlier.

Our JF-17's have been pitted against our F-16s, and they comfortably hold their own. With DSI inlets hiding jet intake blades, it was reported that the F-16 had trouble detecting the JF-17 at timrs, JFT already has a small Radar Cross-Section sie to it being a lightweight aircraft.

So I can't stress enough that pilot skills matter enormously. In any engagement between an F-16 and a J-10, this would matter more than how much weight the F-16 is capable of carrying or whether the J-10 has more hardpoints.
 
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Here is a comparison:
J-10 vs F-16

It shows that BVR range for j10 is higher, but j10 BVR rating is 60% whereas f16 c/d is 80%, what does that mean?

But f16 is probably not an option for Bangladesh.
BVR range means from how far a plane can launch a bvr missle
N bvr rating means once the plane has fired a bvr missile whats the probability of it actually hitting the target
Like if F-16 fires 10 bvr there is a probability that 8 will hit the traget (100% bvr rating means once missile is fired no one can save the traget)

Although i like ur comparison one big thing thats missing in ur comparion was it was for block c/d n not block 60(not even block 52)

I agree that F-16 r not BD's cup of tea that why i never suggested them in first place bcoz
1.Damm expensive
2.to many strings attached
3.US is not gona provide block 60 to u guys
 
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@Qasibr
Bthr i have no doubts on the capabilities of pak fighter nor on the capabilities of J10
All i wanted to say that unless the actual performance analysis is out from a neutral source its just to early to make any comparisons thats all

I rest my case
 
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StrategyCenter is a widely recognised American military think-tank organization based in Virginia, US.

This is not a Pakistani source.

It is good to research before making silly accusations. Even a cursory look at the link would have shown you muliple quotes by Russian engineers and officials.

Numerous sources point to the fact that Chinese avionics have surpassed the Russians, after over a decade of Chinese investing heavily in this area while the Russian aero sector experienced a dearth of funding. Janes did a piece in 2011 which analyzed the effectiveness of China's main AMRAAM-equivalent BVR missile, the SD-10A(not the latest SD-10B now released), and stated that the missile was roughly at par with AIM-120C5(slightly older AMRAAM) and more sophisticated and superior to the Russian R-77.

You should research into this, most serious analysts agree on this point. Often it's only Russians on forums who disagree(and perhaps Indians, who use numerous Russian products).

What link? You didn't provide any link. You just quoted something without anything to back it up. Perhaps instead of calling my accusation silly, you should have taken this opportunity to actually provide a link, but nothing seems to be forthcoming. Now you cite some Jane's article you remember about the Chinese BVR being better than the R77. Again, that is another anecdotal piece of evidence.

Instead of prevaricating, why don't you go and find me these analyses that say Chinese avionics have surpassed Russia's? I'm not denying it's true but you have provided nothing to back up your claims.
 
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Here's the StrategyCenter link. I'd you look through earlier posts in this thread you may find that I'd posted the link previously as well: International Assessment and Strategy Center > Research > Report from the 2010 Chinese Defense Electronics Exhibition (CIDEX): Growing Industry – Advancing Technology

Here's the Janes article, full article is a paid subscription but you can find many references and portions of this article on the Internet: SD-10, SD-10A (PL-12) (China) - Jane's Air-Launched Weapons

One of the major points in the Janes article is that the SD-10 appears to be a dual-seeker missile like the latest AIM-120D(doesn't need it's Active Radar to home in, and can follow radiation signatures, etc), and hence appears to be more advanced than some of it's contemporaries, including older versions of AIM-120 AMRAAMs.

There are multiple threads discussing this Janes article, as well as SD-10A/B vs R-77 comparisons, on this forum. You may find them useful.
 
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