Member Opinion: Politics on dead bodies of martyrs of helicopter crash

[Jango]

Because at that time they seemed to be led by and had the sense to stay out if it. Right now as they day “kaanpein tang rihi hain” and they are trying to douse every flame be it a matchstick or a brush fire.

ISPR ideally should not comment on anything political but in this case because it involved literally one of their own(seniority) the emotions took over and they needed to make the statement. I don’t think it was purely aimed at PTI but the majority of the conspiracy theories are coming from PTi supporters when there is none

Agreed, saner heads should prevail in ISPR and the military.

More than the PTI, it is the likes of Talat Hussain and Saleem Safi peddling narratives and fanning the flames.

The sole source of the "President didn't go because the families didn't want him there" was Saleem Safi. The good DG should be taking Safi to task and ask him for the source of this conjecture, because after all, he is wedging a divide between the Supreme Commander of the Armed Forces and the military rank and file. Instead the guy says "It would be better if I don't comment on this". Did Safi check with all the 6 shuhada's families and get to know that they didn't want the President there?

PDM journos went full beans with the propaganda, and ISPR fell for it like a sucker. Ab bhugto.

 

[Signalian]

Which brings me to my other larger point, how can you expect a career armor or infantry man to suddenly take over a PR job and lead such an organization?

In many of my posts, I had discussed the educational career of an Army officer till his retirement from the highest rank. Maybe look at the range of courses and the subjects taught to the officer from 2nd Lt to Lt General, spanning over 35 years. Also have a look at the institutions like Staff College, NDU, other universities (national and international) where the officers conduct courses and the journals published which encompass topics including international and public relations, economics, politics including civil military relations etc. I don't blame you for such ignorance as well as lack of knowledge, it is displayed by many on PDF.

 

[Jango]

In many of my posts, I had discussed the educational career of an Army officer till his retirement from the highest rank. Maybe look at the range of courses and the subjects taught to the officer from 2nd Lt to Lt General, spanning over 35 years. Also have a look at the institutions like Staff College, NDU, other universities (national and international) where the officers conduct courses and the journals published which encompass topics including international and public relations, economics, politics including civil military relations etc. I don't blame you for such ignorance as well as lack of knowledge, it is displayed by many on PDF.

My dear friend, please, there is no need to educate me on what is taught in NDU, Staff College, ASL, SMI, or the multitude of different schools that the military has.

The very fact that you believe that such a course or education from these institutions will make someone adept in PR perhaps reflect on your ignorance. This is of course not to cast these institutions in a bad light, they do work exceptionally well in the education they are designed to impart.

Actually thank you for this post, you just reinforced my point. The army, and you, believe that a one shoe fits all strategy works...while it evidently does not. Again, this is not to cast a bad light on the army, or the institutions...but rather just a reiteration of the plain fact that you cannot ask an engineer to do the job of a doctor.

Had the ISPR actually been smart about things, it wouldn't be going around asking teenagers to start trending a hashtag for 1500 Rs and spamming it on Twitter (Yup, that's the rate these days), but would be looking into the world of SEO and data analytics on social media platforms. When one officer was presented with the idea a few months back, his response was "Woh baad main dekhen gay, we have to use overwhelming force to counter the propaganda"...and then was left wondering why those 1500 PKR hashtags didn't trend for more than a couple of hours.

 

[Signalian]

It is high time the army or ISPR itself invests heavily in bringing in civilian people in the organization and give them an actual strategy role rather than only using them as bots and messengers. Make use of PR specialists, corporate communication teams, and more, rather than shoehorning a Brigade Commander or GOC into the role, right from the warzone to this.

I think there was working on this already however there is a team working behind the DG from all cadres, though his approval would be mandatory IMO.

My dear friend, please, there is no need to educate me on what is taught in NDU, Staff College, ASL, SMI, or the multitude of different schools that the military has.

Contradicts your earlier post and words, but suit yourself.

The very fact that you believe that such a course or education from these institutions will make someone adept in PR perhaps reflect on your ignorance.

Agreed, I am ignorant and learning is an every day activity.

 

[Jango]

I think there was working on this already however there is a team working behind the DG from all cadres, though his approval would be mandatory IMO.

They did, but due to inherent structural issues, the bold part as follows needs to be reiterated:

bringing in civilian people in the organization and give them an actual strategy role rather than only using them as bots and messengers

Those who stick around remain for the hubul watni factor (nothing wrong with that) or treat it as a stop gap measure, while most go to more greener and growth oriented pastures.

 

[Signalian]

You're a child - at this rate you might as well blame establishment for your conception.

A product of the online millennium generation. The enemy preys on such minds.

In Signals communication set ups, there are alerts and warning pasted on walls around radio operators to stay alert and vigilant in information communication whether voice or data and not become a victim of own emotions thus concentrating fully on duty. These signs were put up specially for recruits passing out from Kohat.

Had the ISPR actually been smart about things, it wouldn't be going around asking teenagers to start trending a hashtag for 1500 Rs and spamming it on Twitter (Yup, that's the rate these days), but would be looking into the world of SEO and data analytics on social media platforms. When one officer was presented with the idea a few months back, his response was "Woh baad main dekhen gay, we have to use overwhelming force to counter the propaganda"...and then was left wondering why those 1500 PKR hashtags didn't trend for more than a couple of hours.

I would like to continue with someone who has knowledge and knows what he is talking about, so I will excuse myself since yours posts keep showing your lack of knowledge about the topic at hand.

 

[Signalian]

Either you are oblivious or purposefully trying to be manipulative here but there has been a huge campaign waged since IK left office mostly by the PTI social media team + Foreign entities cashing in on it by amplifying it. It isn't random either, every single post is just that saying Bajwa x y z or army x y z.

The term - social engineering.

 

[Goritoes]

No one to blame but Army. People will lose respect of the Army if you constantly sold the country and fill your pockets, was it right ? NO ? but the blame falls on the institution, Izzat dil se aati hai zabardasti se nai.

 

[SQ8]

A product of the online millennium generation. The enemy preys on such minds.

In Signals communication set ups, there are alerts and warning pasted on walls around radio operators to stay alert and vigilant in information communication whether voice or data and not become a victim of own emotions thus concentrating fully on duty. These signs were put up specially for recruits passing out from Kohat.


I would like to continue with someone who has knowledge and knows what he is talking about, so I will excuse myself since yours posts keep showing your lack of knowledge about the topic at hand.

There is a lack of SME recognition

A product of the online millennium generation. The enemy preys on such minds.

In Signals communication set ups, there are alerts and warning pasted on walls around radio operators to stay alert and vigilant in information communication whether voice or data and not become a victim of own emotions thus concentrating fully on duty. These signs were put up specially for recruits passing out from Kohat.


I would like to continue with someone who has knowledge and knows what he is talking about, so I will excuse myself since yours posts keep showing your lack of knowledge about the topic at hand.

true but that doesn’t mean everything should he dismissed under the carpet under the guise of “we know better”.

There are SME with FAR FAR more knowledge and experience than any military officer just because it is their day job day in and day out.

To reject it outright is actually very Pakistani and not confined to the army - as an example, I was discussing the PRC-9661(which I was part of the project for) with a retd colonel from infantry and this man went on and on about radio systems and how the Indians cannot jam us and so on because he used a harris set during his posting on the LoC and Siachen.

At the end I just gave up because as soon as I would contradict him with knowledge he would instead get infuriated and go around accusing me of knowing nothing and to go back to school because he has course mates in 25 Sgn Bt and therefore he knows Jamming and comms including its entire study(but he cannot quote anything technical)

Its a disease of the mind that is present in most Pakistanis (you can find them on this forum as well) who just because they know someone in a field will actually debate another in that same field as the subject matter expert regardless of whether it is relevant to them or not.

Its like saying my uncle was a pilot and ipso facto I too can fly a Boeing 747 and know more about than “you” as the 737 pilot.

The issue here is there is a cultural change needed in Pakistan of which the establishment is a big part of - but that doesn’t mean one goes into the proverbial “Somnath ka Mandir jiss ne bhi tora paise aap ki tankhwa se katien gein”

 

[El Sidd]

I deleted the post, not the mod, after doing some verifications.

It's classic social engineering. Circulate a rumour or insinuation and provocation with words like seems, appears and then claim self righteous innocence.

 

[HAIDER]

It's classic social engineering. Circulate a rumour or insinuation and provocation with words like seems, appears and then claim self righteous innocence.

you are free to publish your assumptions. Thank you . How is your TLP?

 

[El Sidd]

you are free to publish your assumptions. Thank you . How is your TLP?

Was it your assumption then or a premeditated propaganda?

 

[HAIDER]

Was it your assumption then or a premeditated propaganda?

How is your TLP ?

 

[El Sidd]

How is your TLP ?

Didn't take much for you to get desperate Mr. Tyagi

 

[Acetic Acid]

Agreed, saner heads should prevail in ISPR and the military.

More than the PTI, it is the likes of Talat Hussain and Saleem Safi peddling narratives and fanning the flames.

The sole source of the "President didn't go because the families didn't want him there" was Saleem Safi. The good DG should be taking Safi to task and ask him for the source of this conjecture, because after all, he is wedging a divide between the Supreme Commander of the Armed Forces and the military rank and file. Instead the guy says "It would be better if I don't comment on this". Did Safi check with all the 6 shuhada's families and get to know that they didn't want the President there?

PDM journos went full beans with the propaganda, and ISPR fell for it like a sucker. Ab bhugto.

This is a picture of PTI senior leadership attending funeral
Later Imran khan also visited General sarfraz home

DG ISPR knew both things
DG ISPR knew the Truth
Still he decided not to answer the question about President airf alvi because that would have failed the propaganda of PDM


That kid had 1 retweet on his account
Now there are TV shows at night discussing how it was disrespectful and government doing press conference on day time and their paid journalist are separate
If this isn't the use of martyrs for political stunt against PTI then what this is?

Certain guys are not ready to accept that even Army can do something worng and it's all propaganda
Yesterday whole PDF administration was happy on that forced statement of kid like it was conquest of Kashmir

This helps you understand the mindset of in pindi too
It same here and there that army is pious and everyone else is foreign agent

But they should accept that they have lost patriotism card