Mechanised Divisions Pakistan Army

[Mrc]

they are also inducting more advance FnF ATGM will our tanks survive against them?

Well t 90 in Syria seems to do well against atgms

 

[Signalian]

@Signalian @Gryphon how 1650 T-90s and 2410 T-72s(which are very good) will be confronted by our mere 1500 modern tanks?
@Areesh @DESERT FIGHTER @naveedullahkhankhattak

Most effective against IA MBT's.
1. ATGM (TOW/TOW II, GREEN ARROW)

Other Effective measures against IA MBT's.
2. Gunships (AH-1, Mi-24)
3. UCAV (Burraq)
4. Artillery (there was a presentation in 2003/4 of using rounds which vector towards enemy tanks, forgot basic details even, but something like that exists)
5. PA MBT's.
6. PAF CAS aircrafts
7. Mines and other explosives set as traps.

8. MLRS

 

[ziaulislam]

Well t 90 in Syria seems to do well against atgms

i am not an expert so not sure this is actually a TOW
but clearly disables the t 90 tank

 

[Reichsmarschall]

i am not an expert so not sure this is actually a TOW
but clearly disables the t 90 tank

The missile hit the front armor, ERA worked that's why there was no penetration. The crew, apparently, was still alive, the tank did not catch fire and most likely have preserved fighting capability

 

[ziaulislam]

The missile hit the front armor, ERA worked that's why there was no penetration. The crew, apparently, was still alive, the tank did not catch fire and most likely have preserved fighting capability

i doubt it, i have seen videos where its hit by RPG/antitank weapons and tanks backs up to safety or cover or replys
when crew abandons the tank its almost always because the tank cannot move and hence disabled

there might not be penetration or total destruction but it still got disabled

 

[Reichsmarschall]

i doubt it, i have seen videos where its hit by RPG/antitank weapons and tanks backs up to safety or cover or replys
when crew abandons the tank its almost always because the tank cannot move and hence disabled

there might not be penetration or total destruction but it still got disabled

There was no penetration. The gunner jumped out because he made the mistake of leaving his hatch open and the blast from the missile and era exploding probably blew out his eardrums. If he had been riding with his hatch closed nothing would have happened to him as there was no penetration. T-90 armor held very well against the TOW missile the crew just has to me better trained not loiter in one spot for so long without securing the field of fire. I am sure the tank can be repaired and put back into service quickly. At most just a few of the optics and era plates need to be changed and it will be ready to go again.

 

[ziaulislam]

i guess 2000 tanks are more than enough with more focus on mobility and mobile anti tank weapons and fire and forget system to compliment that

assumptions are that we have approx 400-500 of each t-59 updated alzarrar to atleast level of t-72, t-80 which are better than t-72s but supposedly inferior to t90, t-85 which are slightly inferior to t 72 and alkhalid 1 which are nearly as good as t 90 but still inferior according to some anaylst

what we need know is another modern tank with number atleast 500

There was no penetration. The gunner jumped out because he made the mistake of leaving his hatch open and the blast from the missile and era exploding probably blew out his eardrums. If he had been riding with his hatch closed nothing would have happened to him as there was no penetration. T-90 armor held very well against the TOW missile the crew just has to me better trained not loiter in one spot for so long without securing the field of fire. I am sure the tank can be repaired and put back into service quickly. At most just a few of the optics and era plates need to be changed and it will be ready to go again.

disable means disable, tank didnt move
what wills top some one shooting another TOW up its ***
therefore when tank is disable, crew most of time abandone it
if its not disable it moves fast

yes it might be repaired but for now its counted as disable, assuming this was latest generation TOW, a single shot to most armored area, this is not bad result at all

with increase in precision based weapons, things have completed changed
the side with strong air force will dictate alot of things
as single jet can disable dozens of tanks with single guided cluster bomb

PAF needs more funding in my opinion

 

[Gryphon]

Most effective against IA MBT's.
1. ATGM (TOW/TOW II, GREEN ARROW)

Other Effective measures against IA MBT's.
2. Gunships (AH-1, Mi-24)
3. UCAV (Burraq)
4. Artillery (there was a presentation in 2003/4 of using rounds which vector towards enemy tanks, forgot basic details even, but something like that exists)
5. PA MBT's.
6. PAF CAS aircrafts
7. Mines and other explosives set as traps.

8. MLRS

Don't rule out portable anti-tank rockets. Very capable as seen in the video posted on the previous page. That tank is toasted.

Regarding artillery, PA uses 203 mm M110 in Strike Corps because they can damage or overturn enemy armoured assets, thus providing valuable gains in battle.

No. of MLRS launchers has increased in recent years, most of them 122 mm.

 

[Cuirassier]

We'll need to get those t-129s with an assembly line here. In case of an IA armoured offensive, our troops should be equipped with demolition stuff like RPGs and AGLs, and MANPADS as they'll use CAS. Our ATGM stock is pretty solid, if used in proper formation, it will do the job. How you utilize your formations is upto the skill of the commander, and that skill is tested on field.

 

[Basel]

The crew hatch was open, the guy got shell shocked and ran out. The tank was in fighting condition. Nothing happened to the tank. If you notice even Shtora was turned off. The crew was probably sent out into the field without proper training.



PA won't get that lucky when facing India. We don't plan to operate inside urban areas and Indian tanks will have better air support.

MLRS and artillery are area effect weapons. It's not easy to employ against tanks because you need that extremely rare direct hit. Counter battery and air support can take out the MLRS and artillery systems.

Even in WW-2 artillery was very deadly weapon against tanks. Get your facts right.

 

[Signalian]

Don't rule out portable anti-tank rockets. Very capable as seen in the video posted on the previous page. That tank is toasted.

If you are talking about Alcotan or RPG types, they have limitations in guidance and range (just a few hundred meters). Its almost suicidal to approach an MBT in open with these weapons in a fast paced desert battle.

Alcotan was procured for western front and LOC, as it can be fired from confined spaces. It has advantage of bigger calibre over RPG-7 series, 100mm to 40mm.

Regarding artillery, PA uses 203 mm M110 in Strike Corps because they can damage or overturn enemy armoured assets, thus providing valuable gains in battle.

M-110 was basically a counter battery weapon but yes it fires a huge shell.

No. of MLRS launchers has increased in recent years, most of them 122 mm.

MLRS is best used when enemy equipment is being replenished with supplies like ammunition and fuel. Assembly areas, where the force gathers before an assault as well as repair workshops are good targets too.

 

[Reichsmarschall]

Alcotan was procured for western front and LOC, as it can be fired from confined spaces. It has advantage of bigger calibre over RPG-7 series, 100mm to 40mm.

dont you think Pakistan should buy Advance FnF ATGM like FGM-148?

 

[Signalian]

Even in WW-2 artillery was very deadly weapon against tanks. Get your facts right.

Correct.

Artillery also forces an MBT to keep changing positions when the pounding starts. Immobilised MBT's are easy targets for artillery. A good way to use artillery against MBT is when MBT enters a minefield and exploding mine damages its tracks, immobilising it.

An underestimated weapon in PA is the mortar when used in conjunction with armoured forces. Most modern armies have 120mm mortar placed in M-113 and its a very effective weapon with good range (6-7 km)

dont you think Pakistan should buy Advance FnF ATGM like FGM-148?

yes PA should.

 

[Gryphon]

If you are talking about Alcotan or RPG types, they have limitations in guidance and range (just a few hundred meters). Its almost suicidal to approach an MBT in open with these weapons in a fast paced desert battle.

Alcotan was procured for western front and LOC, as it can be fired from confined spaces. It has advantage of bigger calibre over RPG-7 series, 100mm to 40mm.

I don't think so. Alcotan is offered in four variants. Visit the below link for details

http://instalaza.com/producto/alcotan/?lang=en

Pakistan acquired the anti-tank version. IMO, it should be issued to all infantry and mechanized infantry battalions (under holding corps) facing enemy MBT/IFV threat.

M-110 was basically a counter battery weapon but yes it fires a huge shell.

Yep. Effective against incoming enemy tanks as well.

An underestimated weapon in PA is the mortar when used in conjunction with armoured forces. Most modern armies have 120mm mortar placed in M-113 and its a very effective weapon with good range (6-7 km)

PA has 4x 60 mm mortar operators in each M-113. Isn't the 120 mm mortar too heavy?

dont you think Pakistan should buy Advance FnF ATGM like FGM-148?

Pakistan should stop producing more Baktar-Shikan's and move to HJ-12 or Ingwe.

The former can be used as a man portable ATGM as well as mounted on 4x4 vehicles/APC's/Type 59 chassis.

 

[Reichsmarschall]

I don't think so. Alcotan is offered in four variants. Visit the below link for details

http://instalaza.com/producto/alcotan/?lang=en

Pakistan acquired the anti-tank version. IMO, it should be issued to all infantry and mechanized infantry battalions (under holding corps) facing enemy MBT/IFV threat.



Yep. Effective against incoming enemy tanks as well.



PA has 4x 60 mm mortar operators in each M-113. Isn't the 120 mm mortar too heavy?



Pakistan should stop producing more Baktar-Shikan's and move to HJ-12 or Ingwe.

The former can be used as a man portable ATGM as well as mounted on 4x4 vehicles/APC's/Type 59 chassis.

we have 24000+ BS but it's too heavy for troops to carry