Mechanised Divisions Pakistan Army

[Great Janjua]

Ours is soft sand, not this type. Our wheeled vehicles sink axle deep.

Minus Cholistan then how bout that (⁠θ⁠‿⁠θ⁠)

 

[PanzerKiel]

Minus Cholistan then how bout that (⁠θ⁠‿⁠θ⁠)

Multiple types of APCs , multiple logistic chains, soldiers got to be trained on multiple platforms... Multitude of problems.

 

[Path-Finder]

The Israelis used the T-55 chassis and rebuilt on top of it for their conflicts but that also meant they had funds allocated and expertise to do so.
There is a high focus on surviving for IDF personnel both from a limited numbers issue but also because of their focus on “dont die for your country, make the enemy die for theirs”.
They also had access to decent powerpacks that could replace the transverse one on the T-55 to make space in the compartment.

technically Pakistan could convert its legacy tanks but even if funds were made available from cannibalism from other programs the issue is lack of expertise in doing so for chassis beyond the M-113(which is a simple design in general).

Bear in mind the Israelis still use the M-113 (some 500 active and 5000 in storage available for conflicts) for APCs and while they have numbers of Achzarits (~200) and token numbers of Namer(120) and Nagmachon(specific for Urban warfare) those are generally kept for offensive ops.

The reason for this is that the offensive ops are for IFV and Heavy APC while the battle taxis remain the M-113. None of the 40 ton APCs types IDF has are as mobile as something like the M-113.

The Namer will eventually become the standard but even then the focus has shifter to improving survivability by Passive and APS systems rather than layering on Armor.

If Pakistanis can afford it - the PA could get a small number of Turk Tulpars to support offensive operations.

As far as better ATGMs go, the PA has a great option in the SK Raybolt if they can afford it.

The T55 or any of the older Tseries Tanks in PA inventory. Cant they turned into a support role by being fitted with a 40mm gun for anti armor operations? Like the CV90/Ajax for example? Especially if the gun is stabilised.

Additionally Turn the old Tseries into AA role by getting the Korkut turret on it.

 

[Great Janjua]

The T55 or any of the older Tseries Tanks in PA inventory. Cant they turned into a support role by being fitted with a 40mm gun for anti armor operations? Like the CV90/Ajax for example? Especially if the gun is stabilised.

Additionally Turn the old Tseries into AA role by getting the Korkut turret on it.

Its a good idea but best bet would be to get a proper IFV something like the new chinese VN17 as it would have a capacity for dismounts as well but the Turks also have a good upgrade package for the M113s

Heres another chinese IFV based on a Type 59

 

[Signalian]

View attachment 915033

:-( wrong terrain, wrong country.

Southern most tip are marshes and swamps, going up north, you get desert and a few types of sand, then semi desert leading up into plains and then hills finally turning up into mountains and snowy terrain. That is like 6 types of terrains that Pakistan Army needs to fight on.

Lucky to have one type of platform which can fit all terrains.

 

[Great Janjua]

:-( wrong terrain, wrong country.

Southern most tip are marshes and swamps, going up north, you get desert and a few types of sand, then semi desert leading up into plains and then hills finally turning up into mountains and snowy terrain. That is like 6 types of terrains that Pakistan Army needs to fight on.

Lucky to have one type of platform which can fit all terrains.

Chinese VN17 based on a VT5 light tank chasis prolly is the future go to platform it is a tiny bit costly however China has also developed the VN20 based on the VT4 chasis

Tracked vehicles are prolly the best bet for our terrain.

 

[Signalian]

The T55 or any of the older Tseries Tanks in PA inventory. Cant they turned into a support role by being fitted with a 40mm gun for anti armor operations? Like the CV90/Ajax for example? Especially if the gun is stabilised.

Additionally Turn the old Tseries into AA role by getting the Korkut turret on it.

This can do the job of tank hunting too.

Main considerations regarding your post:

1. T-55 armor is adequate, for an IFV.
2. What is the 40mm gun for ? which targets will it take out ?
3. Power plant (engine) will be new to match 800+ Hp.
4. All the electronics and sensors will be costly upgrade along with engine.
5. The role of IFV without carrying any troops is ambiguous.

Considering point 2, the 40 mm cannon, it can slice through light skinned vehicles, can put a solid mark on BMP-2s and damage them, depending upon range. The main stationary targets are dug outs like bunkers from where enemy can fire from ATGM's to take out this IFV or fire RPGs when IFVs come closer.

The ammunition type of 40mm is more important to see which targets it can take out using different types of rounds.

1. GPM/GPM-IP/PM- basically for Air Defense with 40 mm gun using higher elevation if turret allows. Against Gunships, and UAVs as primary targets or slow moving/low altitude aircrafts and missiles.

2. Time- Mode- against infantry and helicopters.

3. Impact Mode- light skinned vehicles (trucks/jeeps/support vehicles) , APCs and importantly LOCAAS (loitering munitions)

4. AP Mode- Used against Light armored vehicles like BMP-2 as well as infantry inside buildings/bunkers.

 

[Path-Finder]

2. What is the 40mm gun for ? which targets will it take out ?

It's ability to rapid fire and knockout Soviet armor like T90/72 for example. Plus you can carry far more of the 40mm ammo than say 125mm. The role hypothetically would be to assist armored columns. I would imagine they would be great for infantry support too!

As you pointed out these is now a versatile amount of 40mm ammo that can work for various scenarios.

The reason for my brainwave is to eliminate armour at a wholesale rate. both sides will deploy armour and we need to eliminate far more of it.

Its a good idea but best bet would be to get a proper IFV something like the new chinese VN17 as it would have a capacity for dismounts as well but the Turks also have a good upgrade package for the M113s View attachment 915060

Heres another chinese IFV based on a Type 59 View attachment 915061

there are scores of Tseries around the world that can be acquired and used. Everything is hampered by cost.

 

[Signalian]

It's ability to rapid fire and knockout Soviet armor like T90/72 for example. Plus you can carry far more of the 40mm ammo than say 125mm. The role hypothetically would be to assist armored columns. I would imagine they would be great for infantry support too!

As you pointed out these is now a versatile amount of 40mm ammo that can work for various scenarios.

The reason for my brainwave is to eliminate armour at a wholesale rate. both sides will deploy armour and we need to eliminate far more of it.


there are scores of Tseries around the world that can be acquired and used. Everything is hampered by cost.

Indian Army had options of Abhay IFV sporting a 40 mm cannon.

M-113 can hold 9+ infantry.
If the IFV with 40mm cannon can hold 7-8 troops but ATGM is also mounted on it then maybe it will hold 4-5-6 troops making space for 40 mmm rounds and at least 6 x ATGMs.

 

[Signalian]

@PanzerKiel

How would you rate effectiveness of 40mm cannon on IFV in combat against IA ?

 

[PanzerKiel]

@PanzerKiel

How would you rate effectiveness of 40mm cannon on IFV in combat against IA ?

Good enough to shatter optics of APCs and tanks. However, it's own ammo will take some space inside. Good for urban fighting especially since gunner is not exposed while firing.

 

[Signalian]

Good enough to shatter optics of APCs and tanks. However, it's own ammo will take some space inside. Good for urban fighting especially since gunner is not exposed while firing.

The AP round cannot penetrate BMP armour from front or sides or leave a hole in BMP turret.

 

[PanzerKiel]

If

The AP round cannot penetrate BMP armour from front or sides or leave a hole in BMP turret.

Of course, that's why I talked of optics.

 

[Path-Finder]

Good enough to shatter optics of APCs and tanks. However, it's own ammo will take some space inside. Good for urban fighting especially since gunner is not exposed while firing.

well the yanks have unveiled a 50mm gun on their new APC. Plus the new 40mm Cased Telescoped Ammo will demolish armor with its variety of ammo. the new 40mm gun with CT ammo can be used against armor, air and structures.

There is now 45mm CT ammo too.

 

[CLUMSY]

The T55 or any of the older Tseries Tanks in PA inventory. Cant they turned into a support role by being fitted with a 40mm gun for anti armor operations? Like the CV90/Ajax for example? Especially if the gun is stabilised.

Additionally Turn the old Tseries into AA role by getting the Korkut turret on it.

Sounds pretty ghetto, T59s already are pretty old. You cant retrofit it that much.
Have to consider the engine and hull capacity.