Lt-General Thorat's 1962 China warning fell on deaf ears.

[janon]

I told you and I'm telling you again sir,my comment wasn't meant to be a "racist" one,but then I did meant to be judgemental which I knew it to be wrong even while writing that comment.I never made that remark
"solely to counter his point" but just to settle the scores.

In any case, you have admitted that it was a mistake and apologized, so let's leave it at that. I trust that you won't make such remarks in future.

 

[chhota bheem]

Nehru was a disaster in refrence to china.

 

[scorpionx]

The fuse of 1962 disaster in NEFA was lit in far north, Aksai China. Nehru was repeatedly being misinformed by the historical division of his external affairs ministry.Not only he was being fetched up with the "Collection of engagements, treaties and sanads by the British Government of India", widely known as Atchinson's treaties relating Tibet, Nehru was severely ill informed about the 1899 boundary proposal made by Claude McDonald to the Chinese foreign office Tsungli Yamen, by the director of his historical division S Gopal.

We did not read history before making a sacrosanct border of our own without consulting the other concerned parties and suffered from a chronic hysteria of nationalistic jingoism by making our stance so rigid that in the end it became immensely fragile. And we paid badly for it.

 

[dray]

Ar bhai,Chinese der ar ki bolar ache??Amader nijer deshbasirao to amader bipokhye bolche ekhane.

4-5 ta kattar geruya murkho ekhane ache jara bar bar ban hoy ar notun notun id khule ferot ase, amader rajye geruya sangathan gulo sebhave subidhe korte pareni bole ora khar kheye esob bolche, patta dio na, ami majhe majhe malguloke dhore thuke di, tobe oder janya oder rajyer baki sobaiyer sammandhe baje kotha bole labh nei, ja bolar oder e boli.

 

[Omega007]

4-5 ta kattar geruya murkho ekhane ache jara bar bar ban hoy ar notun notun id khule ferot ase, amader rajye geruya sangathan gulo sebhave subidhe korte pareni bole ora khar kheye esob bolche, patta dio na, ami majhe majhe malguloke dhore thuke di, tobe oder janya oder rajyer baki sobaiyer sammandhe baje kotha bole labh nei, ja bolar oder e boli.

Absolutely.Oi Pink revolution thread ta porar age ami jantam e na je eirokom ata k*lan* ekhane PDF a te royeche!!Sala der langto kore jhulie petano uchit.

By the way,apnar bari kothay west bengal a??Amader adi bari Joynagar,South 24 Pargana te.

 

[Dandpatta]

^^^ Guys, kindly communicate in english

 

[dray]

India was not a friendly country to China by any means. Sure Nehru said "bhai bhai" (notice it was only said in Hindi, not in Chinese) and then he immediately back stabbed us, by hosting our largest separatist group in 1959, and then starting a war with us in 1962. Both, while we were collapsing from the worst ever famine in our history, the Great leap forward.

It was China who was bending over backwards, offering territorial concessions so generous that modern nationalists would consider it treason:

BBC News - India climbdown may help China border dispute

By Subir Bhaumik
Itanagar, Arunachal Pradesh
17 April 2012

India has been reluctant to part with any portion of the disputed territory since the 1950s.

It rejected a swap offer made by China's former Prime Minister Zhou Enlai in 1960, asking India to recognise China's control of Aksai Chin in the west as a quid pro quo for China's recognition of the McMahon line.

After rejecting that offer, India initiated a "forward policy" to control the disputed territories in the Himalayas.

-------------

It was China that was fighting against two enemy superpowers, it was China that was collapsing from starvation.

That's why we made so many territorial concessions during that period, out of weakness and desperation.

But Nehru rejected ANY compromise. Instead, he went for his Forward policy, and started a war against us.

Even after we prevailed, we voluntarily withdrew from AP to give Nehru another chance to accept Zhou Enlai's ridiculously generous offer of a mutual recognition of each other's territories.

If you want to deny the political & moral help India provided including pitching for China in the UN, that's your choice. But Nehru cannot be blamed for "Starting a war" with China, I opened this thread to show that Indian army was well aware about the heavy Chinese military build up on Sino-India border, Lt-General Thorat even predicted the possible time of attack correctly and proposed the plan for defense, but Nehru didn't act on it believing in the promises of China for a peaceful resolution of the dispute in a friendly manner.

Consider this, Nehru 'knowingly' allowed China to achieve 10:1 advantage in numbers of military personnel on the border, China even sent some of the supplies through Calcutta port before the war. For about a month of war Nehru pathetically denied to reinforce our stranded soldiers with supply of ammunition and men, our soldiers were left to die there just because Nehru didn't want to escalate the war, hardly an act of war mongering, right? Nehru was a pacifist, foolishly pacifist, who even said that India doesn't need an army as India doesn't have any natural enemy.

And your last line is even further from the truth, China withdraw without any gain as: 1. China was not in a position to maintain such a long supply line. 2. Nehru finally decided to send 50000 troops to the battlefield after a month of indecision, China declared cease fire the next day. 3. USA turned their attention to the conflict.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

If you want to deny the political & moral help India provided including pitching for China in the UN, that's your choice. But Nehru cannot be blamed for "Starting a war" with China, I opened this thread to show that Indian army was well aware about the heavy Chinese military build up on Sino-India border, Lt-General Thorat even predicted the possible time of attack correctly and proposed the plan for defense, but Nehru didn't act on it believing in the promises of China for a peaceful resolution of the dispute in a friendly manner.

Consider this, Nehru 'knowingly' allowed China to achieve 10:1 advantage in numbers of military personnel on the border, China even sent some of the supplies through Calcutta port before the war. For about a month of war Nehru pathetically denied to reinforce our stranded soldiers with supply of ammunition and men, our soldiers were left to die there just because Nehru didn't want to escalate the war, hardly an act of war mongering, right? Nehru was a pacifist, foolishly pacifist, who even said that India doesn't need an army as India doesn't have any natural enemy.

And your last line is even further from the truth, China withdraw without any gain as: 1. China was not in a position to maintain such a long supply line. 2. Nehru finally decided to send 50000 troops to the battlefield after a month of indecision, China declared cease fire the next day. 3. USA turned their attention to the conflict.

Nehru was a pacifist? Is that why he started the Sino-Indian War with his Forward Policy?

If he was a pacifist he wouldn't have set up military outposts far beyond the MacMahon Line, where India doesn't even claim any land, or start a War with a neighbor who was collapsing from starvation.

At least fight us when we're not in the middle of the worst famine in our history!

 

[dray]

I don't know what "ghar shatru bivison" means, so I would be grateful if you tell me that. I know that 'Ghar' is home, 'shatru' is enemy. I don't know what 'bivison' means, or what language that is.

Bivishon is the younger brother of Raavan in the epic Ramayana.

^^^ Guys, kindly communicate in english

It was off-topic.

 

[dray]

Nehru was a pacifist? Is that why he started the Sino-Indian War with his Forward Policy?

If he was a pacifist he wouldn't have set up military outposts far beyond the MacMahon Line, where India doesn't even claim any land, or start a War with a neighbor who was collapsing from starvation.

At least fight us when we're not in the middle of the worst famine in our history!

You are stuck with the Forward Policy, Forward Policy was not a good enough reason to start the war, read the article in the OP to see how China built up the military on the borders for the war while Nehru lived in the delusion of Sino-India friendship and brotherhood. While Indians won't forgive Nehru for his failure to read the situation correctly and respond accordingly, the blame for starting the war doesn't stick to him as it was China who attacked India after a long planning and military build up.

In fact I believe the war could have been avoided even if Nehru maintained a third of the Chinese troops on our borders, China attacked India because Nehru allowed them to achieve the terrible number advantage against our troops, Nehru served the opportunity to China on a silver platter. We wouldn't have to suffer the 1962 if Nehru had even a fraction of the military mindset that you attribute to him.

 

[Omega007]

If you want to deny the political & moral help India provided including pitching for China in the UN, that's your choice. But Nehru cannot be blamed for "Starting a war" with China, I opened this thread to show that Indian army was well aware about the heavy Chinese military build up on Sino-India border, Lt-General Thorat even predicted the possible time of attack correctly and proposed the plan for defense, but Nehru didn't act on it believing in the promises of China for a peaceful resolution of the dispute in a friendly manner.

Consider this, Nehru 'knowingly' allowed China to achieve 10:1 advantage in numbers of military personnel on the border, China even sent some of the supplies through Calcutta port before the war. For about a month of war Nehru pathetically denied to reinforce our stranded soldiers with supply of ammunition and men, our soldiers were left to die there just because Nehru didn't want to escalate the war, hardly an act of war mongering, right? Nehru was a pacifist, foolishly pacifist, who even said that India doesn't need an army as India doesn't have any natural enemy.

And your last line is even further from the truth, China withdraw without any gain as: 1. China was not in a position to maintain such a long supply line. 2. Nehru finally decided to send 50000 troops to the battlefield after a month of indecision, China declared cease fire the next day. 3. USA turned their attention to the conflict.

Why are you wasting your time bhai??He's not gonna listen to your words,especially now when he's got Mr Maxwell as his buddy.So again,please stop wasting your time on this CPC brainwashed Dragon or whatever.He's been exposed to their propaganda right after he got his comprehension abilities and now his gone FUBAR,so nothing gonna happen.Lets leave him with his "knowledge",his rants aren't gonna change the reality.

What else can you expect from someone who believes that an Indian Army started the war whose soldiers were "equipped" with cotton uniforms at sub zero temperature,Lee Enfield rifles and just ~100 rounds per infantryman,no artillery,heck by the time the PLA had stuck a big portion of the Indian soldiers were suffering from severe starvation,cold and altitude sickness since they weren't even properly acclimatised!!What a great preparation Indian Army had made to start a war!!

It's simply disgusting to see these miserable Chinese playing victim cards to justify their act of a blatant aggression over a nation that was total ill-prepared for a war.And what a great justification these shameless Chinese has presented!!That India Army set up a single post in Dhola (which was by the way located south of Thah La ridge,the perceived Indian boundary) by which they felt threatened so much that they had to wage a full fledged invasion!!And what your government had been doing in the prior years??They had been frequently encroaching Indian territory,killing our border patrols by crossing the McMahon line without any provocations,unilateral capturing of Aksai Chin - these were very good things right??When we set up a single post it becomes an act of aggression and when you commit far worse things,that's very peacefull!!WTF!!

Just accept you had been preparing for that war from a long time and beat up an unprepared opponent,while speaking of resolving the issue through negotiations.Just accept this and move on.But when you say
"At least fight us when
we're not in the middle of
the worst famine in our
history" it makes you look like a pathetic and disgusting hypocrite.As if India started the war when in reality all the evidence suggests otherwise.You did everything to make that war happen and true to your Chinese nature,put all the blame on us.

You can fool the apologists,but you can not fool each and everyone.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

Why are you wasting your time bhai??He's not gonna listen to your words,especially now when he's got Mr Maxwell as his buddy.So again,please stop wasting your time on this CPC brainwashed Dragon or whatever.He's been exposed to their propaganda right after he got his comprehension abilities and now his gone FUBAR,so nothing gonna happen.Lets leave him with his "knowledge",his rants aren't gonna change the reality.

What else can you expect from someone who believes that an Indian Army started the war whose soldiers were "equipped" with cotton uniforms at sub zero temperature,Lee Enfield rifles and just ~100 rounds per infantryman,no artillery,heck by the time the PLA had stuck a big portion of the Indian soldiers were suffering from severe starvation,cold and altitude sickness since they weren't even properly acclimatised!!What a great preparation Indian Army had made to start a war!!

It's simply disgusting to see these miserable Chinese playing victim cards to justify their act of a blatant aggression over a nation that was total ill-prepared for a war.And what a great justification these shameless Chinese has presented!!That India Army set up a single post in Dhola (which was by the way located south of Thah La ridge,the perceived Indian boundary) by which they felt threatened so much that they had to wage a full fledged invasion!!And what your government had been doing in the prior years??They had been frequently encroaching Indian territory,killing our border patrols by crossing the McMahon line without any provocations,unilateral capturing of Aksai Chin - these were very good things right??When we set up a single post it becomes an act of aggression and when you commit far worse things,that's very peacefull!!WTF!!

Just accept you had been preparing for that war from a long time and beat up an unprepared opponent,while speaking of resolving the issue through negotiations.Just accept this and move on.But when you say
"At least fight us when
we're not in the middle of
the worst famine in our
history" it makes you look like a pathetic and disgusting hypocrite.As if India started the war when in reality all the evidence suggests otherwise.You did everything to make that war happen and true to your Chinese nature,put all the blame on us.

You can fool the apologists,but you can not fool each and everyone.

Because India's classified internal army report in 1962, is "Chinese propaganda" right?

It wasn't China, but Nehru who declared 1962 war - The Times of India

All the sources I have posted are INDIAN and WESTERN. There are not many Chinese sources regarding the 1962 war.

So you're saying that Indian and Western sources are all Chinese propaganda. Right.

 

[OrionHunter]

The blunders of 1962

(1) Sardar Patel in yr. 1950 near sent a letter to the Nehru and stated that, the Political party of china had told to make the new border as it had in past (when one mongolian rules on china). also sent a map to the Nehru, but the Ego of Nehru does not permit him to accept this

(2) The chinese side many time breach the border after the slogan "Hindi Chini Bhai-Bhai), They sent letters to the Defence Ministry who return the same, and did not accept, which paper were put into the "Border File", one Journalist asked them about the same and they explained the same.

(3) The militery General had given the Information to the Nehru one time (Not thimaiya some one else) and informed Nehru that China may attack on India, on which Nehru had replied that, "Its not your work to give advise me, If some one attack at East India China will protect us".

(4) Nehru was more interested in his public International Image rather to protect the country, The News of the War starting , and End both come from other source and not militery or government.

(5) When Tibet was independent, Nehru had denied to help Tibet and said that they dont want to enter in other dispute, and irrespective of his statement, he had helped China by providing Medical and Food facilities.

(6) Krishnan Menon was also the acted like villan who was known as snake charmer in west, who always gave the advise to the Russia and US, and Never be serious about Country own, Even after failure the resignation was not taken, and later when there is hue and cry on him, he was transfered to Defence production, and he said that, There is nothing change in his power. The shameless person.

(7) After the loss of war, Nehru said in the Parliament that, there would be good lesson. (Is it necessary to learn lessons and then to understand the things).

(8) The Eastern Command was under the Nehru's relative, Mr. Kaul, who was on leave when war started and he was on leave and tour at Kasmir, when he informed about the war he did not return and said not to disturb him, his resignation was never taken, moreover Defence Ministry had not reject the Leave, which is done in the general cases.

We had Great Blunder as PM namely Nehru.

But the greatest blunder was the political dispensation not allowing use of the Indian Air Force. Nehru shat in his pants at this very thought, thinking that China would do the same resulting in escalation

That idiot seemed to be unaware of the fact that China then had lacked the capabilities for any interdiction or close air support to its troops in Arunachal Pradesh.

And it's not as if the Chinese withdrew on their own accord. They were forced to do so due to a breakdown of logistics support due to the enormous distances that needed to covered over treacherous terrain. Had we used the IAF, the Chinese would have been forced to withdraw much earlier. You can't fight without food, water and ammo. Unless of course you are Superman!

 

[Omega007]

Because India's classified internal army report in 1962, is "Chinese propaganda" right?

It wasn't China, but Nehru who declared 1962 war - The Times of India

All the sources I have posted are INDIAN and WESTERN. There are not many Chinese sources regarding the 1962 war.

So you're saying that Indian and Western sources are all Chinese propaganda. Right.

Like I said to @DRAY ,it's futile to argue with a moron like you,especially when you have found the Maxwell.Now no matter how many logics or proofs we present,you will continue with your same rant by posting that same ToI (aka Toiletpaper of India) report in reply to our every argument.

I don't blame you,it's in your nature.Once you find something that serves your purpose,you continue to post it in every reply.

So again,believe Whatever you have to,it won't make a difference.And as for these revelation by Mr Maxwell,then I've read all these years ago which you have read just recently.

No source ever says that we "started" the war.What they say is that there was "provocation" from India's part.....well of course there was.But it was in no way to justify a total war especially given by what the Chinese had been doing in the previous years.But that's okay because PRC did those I guess!!That's very peacefull acts,but when we set up a few posts,it is act of aggression and punishable by killing over a thousand men.

You did whatever you deemed fit,now move on.What's done is done.But don't play the victim game,because it makes you look like a hypocrite.We so called inferior Indians don't do that even in defeat.But I guess it's too much to ask from the all powerful Chinese.

 

[dray]

Because India's classified internal army report in 1962, is "Chinese propaganda" right?

It wasn't China, but Nehru who declared 1962 war - The Times of India

All the sources I have posted are INDIAN and WESTERN. There are not many Chinese sources regarding the 1962 war.

So you're saying that Indian and Western sources are all Chinese propaganda. Right.

The actions of Nehru, and preparation of Indian army on the ground don't support the statement that Nehru or India started the war, or even remotely displayed any intention to start a war, it was China who probably misjudged Nehru's intentions and attacked India, or there could be other motives also, but it was undoubtedly China who attacked India and started the war, India's stance was always defensive.

Even the Henderson-Brook report or the China apologist journalist Naville Maxwell pointed out that India may have set up a post beyond the McMahon line 'by mistake', which China used as a PRETEXT to attack India and start the war.