Lt-General Thorat's 1962 China warning fell on deaf ears.

[Omega007]

You are stuck with the Forward Policy, Forward Policy was not a good enough reason to start the war, read the article in the OP to see how China built up the military on the borders for the war while Nehru lived in the delusion of Sino-India friendship and brotherhood. While Indians won't forgive Nehru for his failure to read the situation correctly and respond accordingly, the blame for starting the war doesn't stick to him as it was China who attacked India after a long planning and military build up.

In fact I believe the war could have been avoided even if Nehru maintained a third of the Chinese troops on our borders, China attacked India because Nehru allowed them to achieve the terrible number advantage against our troops, Nehru served the opportunity to China on a silver platter. We wouldn't have to suffer the 1962 if Nehru had even a fraction of the military mindset that you attribute to him.

They will continue to do it,bhai amar.Because it's serving their purpose well.You don't have to go far,just look at this very thread.We have presented him with our logics why India can not be solely blamed for what transpired in the '62.PRC did everything to make it happen.
And what did he said in reply??Without countering our points,he kept posting his one-liners,bringing in the same ToI article,famine and what not.They simply like to live in denial.
And really,it's not totally his fault.There are many CPC apologists in our own country who doesn't leave a single opportunist to suck up to the CPC,some of them are in this very PDF.So can't really blame him because we as a nation are still not united enough and fights among ourselves at a drop of the hat!!

By the way, "HAKKU NA MATATA" brother!!

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

Like I said to @DRAY ,it's futile to argue with a moron like you,especially when you have found the Maxwell.Now no matter how many logics or proofs we present,you will continue with your same rant by posting that same ToI (aka Toiletpaper of India) report in reply to our every argument.

I don't blame you,it's in your nature.Once you find something that serves your purpose,you continue to post it in every reply.

So again,believe Whatever you have to,it won't make a difference.And as for these revelation by Mr Maxwell,then I've read all these years ago which you have read just recently.

No source ever says that we "started" the war.What they say is that there was "provocation" from India's part.....well of course there was.But it was in no way to justify a total war especially given by what the Chinese had been doing in the previous years.But that's okay because PRC did those I guess!!That's very peacefull acts,but when we set up a few posts,it is act of aggression and punishable by killing over a thousand men.

You did whatever you deemed fit,now move on.What's done is done.But don't play the victim game,because it makes you look like a hypocrite.We so called inferior Indians don't do that even in defeat.But I guess it's too much to ask from the all powerful Chinese.

Every historian, including Indian and Western ones, consider the Forward Policy to be the event that started the Sino-Indian War. Even India's own internal army report says this.

You did whatever you deemed fit,now move on.What's done is done.But don't play the victim game,because it makes you look like a hypocrite.We so called inferior Indians don't do that even in defeat.But I guess it's too much to ask from the all powerful Chinese.

OK, do you think India is sufficiently prepared for another Sino-Indian War?

Since both China and India have a "No First Use" nuclear policy, a conventional war is very much possible.

Nehru had a few things going for him. Back in 1962, the Great leap forward had dropped our national GDP by over 1/3, meaning that India was quite a bit richer than us at that point. Not to mention that India carried the legacy of the British Indian Army.

Today, China's GDP is around $9.3 trillion (with commensurate military spending), while India's is only around $1.7 trillion, or less if you factor in the fall of the Rupee. In terms of indigenous military technology, it's not even close. In terms of the number of weapons platforms, conventional missile inventories (we have the largest non-nuclear ballistic missile inventory in the world), or border infrastructure, it's not close again.

According to India's own Naval Chief, "India cannot match China by conventional or non-conventional means, and the gap is growing wider every day".

So if you think Nehru was unprepared, what is India today? The balance of power today, has shifted drastically in our favour compared to the situation in 1962, when we were much poorer than India and in the middle of a famine too.

 

[Omega007]

@Chinese-Dragon

I was waiting for this economy thing their to come,really,I was expecting this.Actually I was quite surprised you hadn't brought your tried and tested economy rhetorics when you've got nothing to counter the claims.

Well if you think your economy can win you your war,then good for you.I choose not to go there since it has got nothing to do with the topic at hand (I hope I can do that).

And again you posted your same old internal Indian Army report sh!t,why??Can't you just counter our points??Even the biggest CPC apologist Maxwell whom you love to quote so much,said on record that Indian Army was in no position to wage even a limited war,let alone a prolonged one and they could very well have crossed the McMahon line by mistake.

They didn't even have any in-depth defensive ground works on place,the soldiers were not equipped,not clothed,heck they were not even acclimatised!!All the evidence suggests that India had no intentions to mount an offensive,there were simply no preparations on ground necessary.On the other hand,all the evidence suggests that Chinese had started to prepare for the war from as far back away as '59.So what does that tell us??

Is this simple thing that much hard to comprehend??Or is it that you just don't wanna comprehend?? And you are again playing the famine card.Very good man,we started it.....you finished it.We are the most miserable warlike creatures.......you are the sane,peacefull and most responsible nation on earth.Here,I said that.Happy now??Just leave it at that.

 

[dray]

Every historian, including Indian and Western ones, consider the Forward Policy to be the event that started the Sino-Indian War. Even India's own internal army report says this.



OK, do you think India is sufficiently prepared for another Sino-Indian War?

Since both China and India have a "No First Use" nuclear policy, a conventional war is very much possible.

Nehru had a few things going for him. Back in 1962, the Great leap forward had dropped our national GDP by over 1/3, meaning that India was quite a bit richer than us at that point. Not to mention that India carried the legacy of the British Indian Army.

Today, China's GDP is around $9.3 trillion (with commensurate military spending), while India's is only around $1.7 trillion, or less if you factor in the fall of the Rupee. In terms of indigenous military technology, it's not even close. In terms of the number of weapons platforms, conventional missile inventories (we have the largest non-nuclear ballistic missile inventory in the world), or border infrastructure, it's not close again.

According to India's own Naval Chief, "India cannot match China by conventional or non-conventional means, and the gap is growing wider every day".

So if you think Nehru was unprepared, what is India today? The balance of power today, has shifted drastically in our favour compared to the situation in 1962, when we were much poorer than India and in the middle of a famine too.

India doesn't need to match China bullet by bullet as in any future war scenario China will be the attacker, and India will need much less resources in a defensive role, we have no plan to attack any country.

And the decision to go for a war depends upon the cost involved, India might have less military capabilities than China as of now, but India still is a very powerful country militarily, the cost of a full-scale war with India will be extremely high for any country, more so for a neighbouring country.

But we should stick to the topic only.

 

[navtrek]

So basically you are saying that China "tricked" India into starting the war with the Forward Policy?

Does any historian in the world support that theory with any kind of evidence?

It wasn't China, but Nehru who declared 1962 war - The Times of India

This is from India's own internal army report, which Neville Maxwell released.

The Indian government knows this, that's why they have tried to keep the report classified.

Can you answer this question.. Why did India come up with the forward policy ?

There has to be an action for a reaction right.. but i agree the mistake was ours we should have accepted the Chinese demands for negotiation without declining them.

 

[Omega007]

Can you answer this question.. Why did India come up with the forward policy ?

There has to be an action for a reaction right.. but i agree the mistake was ours we should have accepted the Chinese demands for negotiation without declining them.

They pretty much didn't leave us with any other choice.Land encroachment,unprovoked killing and injuring of Indian border patrols by PLA became more of a norm than exception.They even grabbed the entire Aksai Chin region without negotiating with the Indian authorities.

So had they actually left us with any other choice??I mean negotiation and intimidation can not go hand in hand,can it??

 

[third eye]

According to India's own internal army report, and according to pretty much every international source, it was Nehru's Forward policy that started the 1962 War. The Forward policy in which he set up military outposts far beyond the MacMahon Line, where India did not even claim any land!

Yes, India did not prepare well enough. Who would have thought that China, in the middle of our worst famine in history (the Great leap forward) would be able to resist Nehru's Forward policy?

What better time to conduct the Forward policy, when China was collapsing from starvation?

This was a war that did not need to happen, if not for Nehru's foolishness. Even hosting the Tibetan government in exile in 1959 could have blown over in the long term, but the Forward policy was just too much. While we were starving no less.

You give too much to the then Indian leadership when you think they factored in the starvation part in what they did back in 62. I my opinion they did not have the intellect and / or intel to think that far.

It was a monumental SANFU & there is no other explanation.

This happened because there was a huge disconnect between the Govt & the Armed Forces . People would believe only what they wanted to believe even at the cost of ignoring the obvious.

Thankfully the right lessons were learnt and the refusal of Sam to go into E Pakistan nine years later is an example of what nations can achieve when the Govt & Armed Forces are on the same page.

I am with you when you say that was a war that need not have happened.

 

[Omega007]

You give too much to the then Indian leadership when you think they factored in the starvation part in what they did back in 62. I my opinion they did not have the intellect and / or intel to think that far.

It was a monumental SANFU & there is no other explanation.

This happened because there was a huge disconnect between the Govt & the Armed Forces . People would believe only what they wanted to believe even at the cost of ignoring the obvious.

Thankfully the right lessons were learnt and the refusal of Sam to go into E Pakistan nine years later is an example of what nations can achieve when the Govt & Armed Forces are on the same page.

I am with you when you say that was a war that need not have happened.

I agree with your post sir,except it wasn't SNAFU but actually a total FUBAR on Indian side.

 

[Didact]

India doesn't need to match China bullet by bullet as in any future war scenario China will be the attacker, and India will need much less resources in a defensive role, we have no plan to attack any country.

And the decision to go for a war depends upon the cost involved, India might have less military capabilities than China as of now, but India still is a very powerful country militarily, the cost of a full-scale war with India will be extremely high for any country, more so for a neighbouring country.

But we should stick to the topic only.

The problem with invading big countries is that time is never on your side. As long as you secure a rapid and overwhelming campaign to force the country into submission, its all well and good. But the moment your offensive gets bogged down for whatever reason and the enemy, a colossal enemy at that, gets a chance to regroup, all calculations get churned finer than chalk powder.

India might be weaker, but don't fall into the delusion that it can be punched out of the fight too easily.If the chinese fail to annhilate the entire Indian war machine within 6 weeks, the war will be anything but short.

There is a reason why I'm using the 6 week margin. The deepest and slowest mobilizing indian assets take around six weeks to position themselves into battle. This is also the shortest time frame in which an infantry unit can be trained up in emergency. As such, if the Indian war machine remains intact till then, the first of the major counter attacks begin.

 

[Mike_Brando]

Every historian, including Indian and Western ones, consider the Forward Policy to be the event that started the Sino-Indian War. Even India's own internal army report says this.



OK, do you think India is sufficiently prepared for another Sino-Indian War?

Since both China and India have a "No First Use" nuclear policy, a conventional war is very much possible.

Nehru had a few things going for him. Back in 1962, the Great leap forward had dropped our national GDP by over 1/3, meaning that India was quite a bit richer than us at that point. Not to mention that India carried the legacy of the British Indian Army.

Today, China's GDP is around $9.3 trillion (with commensurate military spending), while India's is only around $1.7 trillion, or less if you factor in the fall of the Rupee. In terms of indigenous military technology, it's not even close. In terms of the number of weapons platforms, conventional missile inventories (we have the largest non-nuclear ballistic missile inventory in the world), or border infrastructure, it's not close again.

According to India's own Naval Chief, "India cannot match China by conventional or non-conventional means, and the gap is growing wider every day".

So if you think Nehru was unprepared, what is India today? The balance of power today, has shifted drastically in our favour compared to the situation in 1962, when we were much poorer than India and in the middle of a famine too.

sorry to spoil your party but the Indian economy has already crossed the $2 trillion mark last year.OTOH,the chinese economy which was around $5.87 trillion back in 2011 so how on earth did your country's economy grew more or less $4 trillion in the matter of 4 years!Even if China had a growth rate of over 15% it would have been impossible to add nearly $4 trillion in the matter of 4 years,so your current G.D.P. is inflated to a certain extent!!