Long Bow Hell Fire: US Navy solution to Iranian fast attack boats

[Siavash]

Actually Hellfire missiles they tested can lock on to target after launch without the need for radar guidance from the host hip. After all it needs to hit moving targets hence why there is no GPS involved.

Its almost similar to the new Tomahawk missile test the U.S. Navy wanted real time targeting to hit moving ships from a thousand miles away and cannot depend on GPS. Fighter bombers and AWACs aircraft can guide it in real time. Don't want to hit the wrong ship.

Forgot to mention self guided LRASM as well that doesn't require GPS whether destroyed or jammed. Just only need to be told where to go.

What you said is interesting. I was not thinking of a definite lock at the time of the lock but a partial area of interest and lock on board the missile while approaching. This lock before launch is a better idea with the possibility to change the lock while on path.

So when they lock at the launch how do they do the tracking of the moving subject. They would need to put the observable information in their tracking system and keep the lock. This observable information would come either from the missile, on board radar or from the link through the ship (LCS defence system). This information is the measured data which feeds the kinematic processor of the tracking system and eventually produces the actual target position and the control outputs for the missile. If that lock becomes broken or unreliable the locked target may escape the death. Am I correct?

 

[Azeri440]

Really, you think the commanders in the USN, who've ran wars for a century now (modern history), don't know the basics? They'll park their AC's in a place where even a 9 MM bullet from a Pistol would come hit them? Common man. Grow up!!!

The USN would take her assets a few hundred miles away and the dance with B1's, B2's, -22's, -18's,-15's and -16's, supported by Guided Missile Destroyers would begin!!! And there ain't no speed boats 200 miles away!!!

agree , I can see USN deploying some Littoral Combat Ships for just general patrol , maybe even destroyers in Persian Gulf

while the battle group is safe and sound couple hundred kms away

 

[Siavash]

agree , I can see USN deploying some Littoral Combat Ships for just general patrol , maybe even destroyers in Persian Gulf

while the battle group is safe and sound couple hundred kms away

They would be like scouts and make sense. But that is not necessary is it? I think the scenario of the conflict requiring hellfire starts when major battle groups try to enforce power and move in with amphibious landing gear and LCS would be the first line of contact but not far from the battle group. The scenario where the LCS is scouting is not what covered here and Iranians probably would not bother showing their hands to that presence either.

 

[mohsen]

This thread should have been posted in Somali pirates defense forum!
Now brave american navies wont need to use their 1 million $ missiles against pirate boats, quite an advancement. congratulation.

 

[Xenophon]

iranian tactics have limits . its good for short term sea battle but for full fledged war it wouldn't work.

 

[mohsen]

iranian tactics have limits . its good for short term sea battle but for full fledged war it wouldn't work.

can you tell me what's our tactic?

 

[Azeri440]

They would be like scouts and make sense. But that is not necessary is it? I think the scenario of the conflict requiring hellfire starts when major battle groups try to enforce power and move in with amphibious landing gear and LCS would be the first line of contact but not far from the battle group. The scenario where the LCS is scouting is not what covered here and Iranians probably would not bother showing their hands to that presence either.

that's not what I was talking about

the threat of Iranian anti-ship missiles and fast attack boats in Persian Gulf is pretty real , without having to expose their Destroyers or Cruisers , USN still needs to protect one of the most important shipping routes in the world

considering LCS is a replacement for older frigates , they are the viable option to provide patrol role for that route

of course I am talking about war time , when USN would see it being too risky for bigger ships to enter Persian Gulf

 

[Oldman1]

What you said is interesting. I was not thinking of a definite lock at the time of the lock but a partial area of interest and lock on board the missile while approaching. This lock before launch is a better idea with the possibility to change the lock while on path.

So when they lock at the launch how do they do the tracking of the moving subject. They would need to put the observable information in their tracking system and keep the lock. This observable information would come either from the missile, on board radar or from the link through the ship (LCS defence system). This information is the measured data which feeds the kinematic processor of the tracking system and eventually produces the actual target position and the control outputs for the missile. If that lock becomes broken or unreliable the locked target may escape the death. Am I correct?

The missiles that were used in the test has fire and forget capability on board (so in other words don't need to have the host ship constantly provide info) that can lock on to the target even if the target is fast and its in water clutter. If the boat can somehow break that lock it is possible to escape death.
Surface to Surface Missile Test For LCS Successful

WASHINGTON (NNS) -- Engineering development tests of modified Longbow Hellfire missiles for use on littoral combat ships (LCS) were successfully conducted in June the Navy reported July 30.

Integration of the Longbow Hellfire missile system, designated the Surface-to-Surface Missile Module (SSMM), will increase the lethality of the Navy's fleet of littoral combat ships. The SSMM is expected to be fully integrated and ready to deploy on LCS missions in late 2017.

"This test was very successful and overall represents a big step forward in SSMM development for LCS," said Capt. Casey Moton, LCS Mission Modules program manager.

Termed Guided Test Vehicle-1, the event was designed to specifically test the Longbow Hellfire launcher, the missile, and its seeker versus high speed maneuvering surface targets (HSMSTs). The HSMSTs served as surrogates for fast inshore attack craft that are a potential threat to Navy ships worldwide.

During the mid-June tests off the coast of Virginia, the modified Longbow Hellfire missiles successfully destroyed a series of maneuvering small boat targets. The system "hit" seven of eight targets engaged, with the lone miss attributed to a target issue not related to the missile's capability. The shots were launched from the Navy's research vessel Relentless.

The test scenarios included hitting targets at both maximum and minimum missile ranges. After a stationary target was engaged, subsequent targets, conducting serpentine maneuvers were engaged. The tests culminated in a three-target "raid" scenario. During this scenario all missiles from a three-shot "ripple fire" response struck their individual targets.

Integration of the "fire-and-forget" Longbow Hellfire missile on LCS represents the next evolution in capability being developed for inclusion in the Increment 3 version of the surface warfare mission package for LCS. When fully integrated and tested, each 24-shot missile module will bring added firepower to complement the LCS's existing 57mm gun, SEARAM missiles and armed MH-60 Sea Hawk helicopter.

This thread should have been posted in Somali pirates defense forum!
Now brave american navies wont need to use their 1 million $ missiles against pirate boats, quite an advancement. congratulation.

Never seen the U.S. Navy ever used multi-million dollar anti ship missiles against pirates ever. I doubt they ever will. Pirates haven't been a serious threat to the U.S. Navy since more than 200 years when fighting against the Barbary pirates. Somalians pirates at most just have rpgs and machine guns. But no anti-ship missiles. At most it would look like this. Whats impressive is considering a $100,000 missile that could destroy corvettes or small patrol boats that is equipped with trained personnel, expensive missiles, and equipment.

can you tell me what's our tactic?

We've seen some of your tactics. Even showed them off to us.

 

[yavar]

T
We've seen some of your tactics. Even showed them off to us.

fool can you tell us how many speed boats were used in that military maneuver ?? give us number ??
and give use total number of your ship you have in persian gulf ??

 

[Oldman1]

fool can you tell us how many speed boats were used in that military maneuver ?? give us number ??
and give use total number of your ship you have in persian gulf ??

Doesn't matter how many speed boats you used. Your tactic was pretty much get close to the carrier in sight and launch a salvo. And doesn't matter how many ships we have because its constantly shifting. You could have just asked how many aircraft and helicopters we have in the region as well as well as personnel.

 

[IR-TR]

Really, you think the commanders in the USN, who've ran wars for a century now (modern history), don't know the basics? They'll park their AC's in a place where even a 9 MM bullet from a Pistol would come hit them? Common man. Grow up!!!

The USN would take her assets a few hundred miles away and the dance with B1's, B2's, -22's, -18's,-15's and -16's, supported by Guided Missile Destroyers would begin!!! And there ain't no speed boats 200 miles away!!!

Iran has plenty of ballistic missiles. They'd shove em up your arse in the bases in the region. It's really painful for the US to attack Iran, if Iran were to fight back hard. It's just geography man.

 

[yavar]

What do you think guys?

@yavar @haman10 @2800 @The Last of us @SOHEIL @Daneshmand

brother yes this works but limited . this limited only effective on fast speed boat with 107 which have to go close to target but even that for argument sake let say maybe this knockout 100 150 speed boat with 107 this is maximum US navy able to do with all of assets it have in persian gulf .
in last maneuver the number we used in only one part was much much high then that .
never mind the number of fast attack boat with cruise missiles with 200 KM or 300 KM .
never mind unmanned fast attack boat with high speed launch of missiles .
never mind iranian armed UCAV which every day they g on top of US navy assets and checking the equipments and capabilities and they can always take combat mission on them without being detected
never mind fast attack assets with HOOT underwater torpedo which is fastest underwater torpedo in whole world which the US navy has no defence against it
never mind the fast attack speed boat with latest upgrade iranian version of sunburn missiles
SS-N-22
never mind the submarine force which time will tell
never mind ASBM s ballistic missiles
never mind the anti radiation missiles
never mind the anti radiation ballistic missiles
never mind the ballistic missiles with cluster warheads
never mind cruise missile launch from fighter planes
never mind the mining of persion gulf in .......... the whole of it with very sophisticated mines

i can go on and on +++++++++++++=
the minute it start the US left with no other option to us nuclear weapons . the policy which Regan put in place which still standing up to today for persian gulf and Oman sea

You could have just asked how many aircraft and helicopters we have in the region as well as well as personnel.

trust me we know all of it , we can even tell you how many bullets you have in all of your bases and how many assets you have .
fool your self time will tell

as for your personals
please ask Iraqi members here what are the number of Hastoshabi in Iraq over all number so you understand your personals nothing more than hostages in our hand anytime we see fit
or in Afghanstan can you tell us the number of Hezbollah Afghanistan ??

 

[haman10]

Bad comparison since it was an accident that cause that, not by a missile. And small boats are just not fast enough to outrun a missile, tests have shown that. And considering there are fighter bombers, submarines, unmanned boats, as well as surface ships helicopters all combine and coordinated to prevent and destroy swarm boats.

Actually the whole logic here is that the small boats are well outside this system's range

thus not even a single scratch can be made .

even if this system is upgraded in future to have a longer range , there are many ways to avoid it .

you could see one of them if you followed the thread : increasing the range of the missile or installing ARH seekers for the missiles so they can act autonomously .

One other important point : The efficacy of this system is in question here .

We've seen some of your tactics. Even showed them off to us.

lol , you sure those are our tactics ?

"you even showed them to us " don't be stupid .

 

[Oldman1]

Actually the whole logic here is that the small boats are well outside this system's range

thus not even a single scratch can be made .

even if this system is upgraded in future to have a longer range , there are many ways to avoid it .

you could see one of them if you followed the thread : increasing the range of the missile or installing ARH seekers for the missiles so they can act autonomously .

One other important point : The efficacy of this system is in question here .


lol , you sure those are our tactics ?

"you even showed them to us " don't be stupid .

I doubt the small boats can avoid F-18s nearby or helos nearby.

Well if you want to go that far, you sure those missile tests we had was truly our tactics? Hellfire missiles could be popping out of the water and nobody would know it.

brother yes this works but limited . this limited only effective on fast speed boat with 107 which have to go close to target but even that for argument sake let say maybe this knockout 100 150 speed boat with 107 this is maximum US navy able to do with all of assets it have in persian gulf .
in last maneuver the number we used in only one part was much much high then that .
never mind the number of fast attack boat with cruise missiles with 200 KM or 300 KM .
never mind unmanned fast attack boat with high speed launch of missiles .
never mind iranian armed UCAV which every day they g on top of US navy assets and checking the equipments and capabilities and they can always take combat mission on them without being detected
never mind fast attack assets with HOOT underwater torpedo which is fastest underwater torpedo in whole world which the US navy has no defence against it
never mind the fast attack speed boat with latest upgrade iranian version of sunburn missiles
SS-N-22
never mind the submarine force which time will tell
never mind ASBM s ballistic missiles
never mind the anti radiation missiles
never mind the anti radiation ballistic missiles
never mind the ballistic missiles with cluster warheads
never mind cruise missile launch from fighter planes
never mind the mining of persion gulf in .......... the whole of it with very sophisticated mines

i can go on and on +++++++++++++=
the minute it start the US left with no other option to us nuclear weapons . the policy which Regan put in place which still standing up to today for persian gulf and Oman sea



trust me we know all of it , we can even tell you how many bullets you have in all of your bases and how many assets you have .
fool your self time will tell

as for your personals
please ask Iraqi members here what are the number of Hastoshabi in Iraq over all number so you understand your personals nothing more than hostages in our hand anytime we see fit
or in Afghanstan can you tell us the number of Hezbollah Afghanistan ??

Okay how many bullets do we have in our bases? How many assets? Don't just tell me that you know. Just stated it out.

 

[yavar]

I doubt the small boats can avoid F-18s nearby or helos nearby.

no need to avoid look what platform it been launched from

I
Okay how many bullets do we have in our bases? How many assets? Don't just tell me that you know. Just stated it out.

you want to see one on top of your bases ?? what do you think the local people who work for you in the bases they do ??