LoC flare up: August 2013

[karan.1970]

And you want us accept Arnab Goswaami version...Regarding casualties on Pak side,keep dreaming if it helps you sleep at night...

P.S...you have been kept in Dark by Military sources many times so why would you follow them...

http://www.defence.pk/forums/strate...asualties-would-affect-morale-troops-cic.html

Read the article completely before commenting. Else you seem ignorant

 

[doppelganger]

Arnab Goswami seems to be catching the attention and fancy of our Pakistani brothers. Better than the effeminate and often clueless Rahul Kanwal I say!

Serious question. Would Sagarika Ghose (of hideous sleevless blouses and flabby arms in-fame) categorize Arnab Goswami as an Internet Hindu?

 

[timetravel]

No actually the situation turned bad to worst because of that fake encounter by IA in which they abducted four civilians from AJK and then killed them.

Why will IA go and abduct civilians? Did they have any particular agenda against those civilians? I doubt.

IA clearly said that they were killed while infiltrating.

 

[Areesh]

It will happen in your part of the world, not in Indian land. I gave you example of Kargil war, which is right in front of you.

I can give you many example where this law or right isn't followed or practiced. Who you are trying to fool? Do you think we don't about the condition prevailing inside India.

Why will IA go and abduct civilians? Did they have any particular agenda against those civilians? I doubt.

IA clearly said that they were killed while infiltrating.

Ask IA that question. Even we don't know why they did that? Was a stupid aggression and irresponsible behavior by IA in our view.

 

[Areesh]

Unlike Pakistan, our soldiers are not hero worshiped(which is a sad state of affairs I agree). Hence no on pays much attention towards fudging casualty figures to make Army look good. Pakistan on the other hand can not dream of its army being denied the status of super humans and hence acceptance of casualties is that much more tough and most of the times delayed by months and years. That's why people still deny and doubt the word of their Prime Minister as long as it maintains the super status of PA....

We respect our soldiers. Every one does that. And nothing is wrong with that. And for you Gorkhas are someone totally invincible noble warriors who can't be defeated by any human. So such concept exist everywhere including India. About the PM part, well people have more than enough reasons to doubt his credibility and I agree with them.

 

[timetravel]

Ask IA that question. Even we don't know why they did that? Was a stupid aggression and irresponsible behavior by IA in our view.

No IA did not abduct the civilians.. they were militants trying to infiltrate.. that's why IA killed them. Do you have proof they were civilians and IA went inside PAK to abduct them?

As per IA they killed them while trying to infiltrate. Keeping in view the attempts to infiltrate every other day, this seems reasonable too. Official statement by IA is more trustworthy. I think you will agree.

Now this seems a new ploy by PA. To declare militants killed while trying to infiltrate as Civilians. I hope PA is not expecting IA to let the infiltrators pass on?

IA will not let single infiltrator it catches, to pass through. Even if PA does 10 times more violence on the border then now. Only way PA can get infiltrators across is by finding some new ways. PA needs to be more innovative.

IA has too much ammunition and this can continue for months, but infiltrators will still be caught and killed. Most probably I feel IA now has dedicated people whose task is just to find out and eliminate the infiltrators. These people are 24*7 ready to kill the infiltrators, and they will not be involved in border skirmishes, which is left to other parts of IA. So anti infiltration ops do not suffer irrespective of the level of firing or violence by PA.

I think rather then wasting ammo, money and energy on the border and labeling militants as civilians, PA should work on new strategies. Old strategies for infiltration are not useful now.

 

[karan.1970]

Ask IA that question. Even we don't know why they did that? Was a stupid aggression and irresponsible behavior by IA in our view.

No.. Its you who is blaming IA on that count.. So you need to answer.. It is stupid and irresponsible behavior by PA to push infiltrators into India and then spread fake news about civilians abducted when their non state actors get killed

 

[rockstarIN]

I can give you many example where this law or right isn't followed or practiced. Who you are trying to fool? Do you think we don't about the condition prevailing inside India.



Ask IA that question. Even we don't know why they did that? Was a stupid aggression and irresponsible behavior by IA in our view.

I gave you Kargil example, and there is no reply from your side.

News coming out that firing is on at Drass Kargil sector too.

 

[Areesh]

I gave you Kargil example, and there is no reply from your side.

News coming out that firing is on at Drass Kargil sector too.

One example is already given from our side. From the Kargil war itself.

http://www.defence.pk/forums/strate...asualties-would-affect-morale-troops-cic.html

As I said. If you guys don't believe in our ISPR then we can also say the same about your army that they are hiding casualties. Anyways. it is you guys who come up with this story. I have no issues in believing both military as far as casualty reports are concerned.

No.. Its you who is blaming IA on that count.. So you need to answer.. It is stupid and irresponsible behavior by PA to push infiltrators into India and then spread fake news about civilians abducted when their non state actors get killed

A petty tit for tat attempt. Or else that fake encounter has already been discussed on this forum and our case seems to be strong enough to believe that IA act irresponsibly and abduction and killing of civilians and hence all the violence.

http://www.defence.pk/forums/kashmir-war/269456-militants-killed-machil-were-hunters.html

No IA did not abduct the civilians.. they were militants trying to infiltrate.. that's why IA killed them. Do you have proof they were civilians and IA went inside PAK to abduct them?

As per IA they killed them while trying to infiltrate. Keeping in view the attempts to infiltrate every other day, this seems reasonable too. Official statement by IA is more trustworthy. I think you will agree.

Now this seems a new ploy by PA. To declare militants killed while trying to infiltrate as Civilians. I hope PA is not expecting IA to let the infiltrators pass on?

IA will not let single infiltrator it catches, to pass through. Even if PA does 10 times more violence on the border then now. Only way PA can get infiltrators across is by finding some new ways. PA needs to be more innovative.

IA has too much ammunition and this can continue for months, but infiltrators will still be caught and killed. Most probably I feel IA now has dedicated people whose task is just to find out and eliminate the infiltrators. These people are 24*7 ready to kill the infiltrators, and they will not be involved in border skirmishes, which is left to other parts of IA. So anti infiltration ops do not suffer irrespective of the level of firing or violence by PA.

I think rather then wasting ammo, money and energy on the border and labeling militants as civilians, PA should work on new strategies. Old strategies for infiltration are not useful now.

Yes they were. You can believe in your story. We have proves and reasons to believe otherwise.

Rest of your post is just a long rant.

 

[timetravel]

A petty tit for tat attempt. Or else that fake encounter has already been discussed on this forum and our case seems to be strong enough to believe that IA act irresponsibly and abduction and killing of civilians and hence all the violence.

http://www.defence.pk/forums/kashmir-war/269456-militants-killed-machil-were-hunters.html

Yes they were. You can believe in your story. We have proves and reasons to believe otherwise.

Rest of your post is just a long rant.

I have gone through the thread you listed above.

If anyone is seen crossing the LOC he is bound to be killed by IA. So their fault. If they were militants or civilians irrespective IA has to kill.

there are 100 infiltration attempts per month, and thousands of militants are killed. If this was a one off I could understand. Infiltration is a daily story. 90% of the people trying to infiltrate are militants. No wonder IA has to be on high alert and kill anyone whose movement looks suspicious.

While this was expected if you cross the border and IA did nothing wrong there. Its all the mistake of those who don't realise the sensitive nature of the border and try to go for picnic there.

but the Pakistan action was a deliberate planned action to kill Indian Army Personnel.

These two cannot be equated.

 

[GoodBoy]

Possible. But these things are not executed so well and according to script. My theory is still the most practical kind, you have to understand all the factors

1. New government in Pakistan, easy to blame them
2. End of term for current government in India, they need an issue
3. Indian opposition also needs an issue
4. The thinking in some quarters of IA is that they can conquer Pakistan, just that Delhi is not giving them the go ahead.
5. Ground level COs sometimes get out of control
6. Media of both countries is jingoistic

These are reasons for flare up
Reality is:

1. Politicians on both sides are more concerned with making money than becoming war heroes
2. War will cost money to economy. Budgets are decided at start of year - did any country budget for a war?
3. Internally both sides know these are just goofups by ground troops... but taking things back would be embarrassing.
4. There is always the next issue. This issue is big in India, but not in Pak. As India will get its next issue, they will also move on.

Did you forget why LoC flares up? Reality is:

Pakistan tries to push terrorists inside India and that's why so much firing cover ups.

Pak Army always needs to create false war hysteria so that people think PA is the "Hero".They are feeling neglected by democracy which somehow stood for 1 full term for the first time.

 

[karan.1970]

One example is already given from our side. From the Kargil war itself.

http://www.defence.pk/forums/strate...asualties-would-affect-morale-troops-cic.html

As I said before, you need to read the article that clearly says that the information CIC is talking about is already in public domain

As I said. If you guys don't believe in our ISPR then we can also say the same about your army that they are hiding casualties. Anyways. it is you guys who come up with this story. I have no issues in believing both military as far as casualty reports are concerned.

Upto you, but its ISPR who got caught out in a huge 10 year lie about Kargil...

A petty tit for tat attempt. Or else that fake encounter has already been discussed on this forum and our case seems to be strong enough to believe that IA act irresponsibly and abduction and killing of civilians and hence all the violence.

http://www.defence.pk/forums/kashmir-war/269456-militants-killed-machil-were-hunters.html

Strong enough for Pakistanis obviously who would swallow any BS that implicates India

 

[chauvunist]

Read the article completely before commenting. Else you seem ignorant

“War related casualties cannot be placed in public domain without a reasonable distance of time as they affect the morale of the nation in general and that of the troops in particular. Disclosure of such information has a bearing on the national security,” Sharma held in his order which was given nearly 14 years of the war.

Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/strate...d-affect-morale-troops-cic.html#ixzz2c8ZyRVXp

Enough said..

 

[Huda]

No.. Its you who is blaming IA on that count.. So you need to answer.. It is stupid and irresponsible behavior by PA to push infiltrators into India and then spread fake news about civilians abducted when their non state actors get killed

Denial mode 0N !!!! @Areesh they'll never accept truth ..they live in fantasy world and think IA is an army of angels including master mind of samjhauta express.

 

[EXPERIMENT]

Whatever...in the end we don't have any warmongering media!

I'll commend you folks for this, at least your media propagates national views and interests and does not play right into the hands of foreign countries.

Media will always play the the tune the public wants to hear. That is simply their trade. The question for tomorrow is what does the public want to hear?