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Pakistan has poor track record reporting deaths of senior terrorist leaders - The Long War Journal

Pakistan has poor track record reporting deaths of senior terrorist leaders
By BILL ROGGIOOctober 5, 2008 10:24 AM

Mustafa Abu Yazid from an al Qaeda tape released on Oct. 4. Pakistan claimed Yazid was killed in a battle in Bajaur last summer.

A senior Taliban or al Qaeda leader may have been killed in the Oct. 2 airstrike in North Waziristan, according to unconfirmed reports from Pakistan. But without confirmation from either the Taliban or the US, reports from Pakistani officials should be viewed as suspect.

The US carried out two separate strikes in North Waziristan on Oct. 2. Both strikes hit tribal areas in North Waziristan run by the Haqqani family. The strike in Mohammed Khel is reported to have killed 23, including 16 or more "Arab" al Qaeda members.

"The Taliban appeared extra-perturbed over the latest strike," the The Associated Press reported, based on anonymous Pakistani intelligence sources. "The anger was a signal that a senior militant may have been killed, but that has yet to be confirmed, the officials said."

Taliban fighters are "moving aggressively in the area while using harsh language against locals, including calling them "saleable commodities" — a reference to people serving as government spies," AP reported. The Taliban have surrounded the attack site and are keeping locals away.

The sources did not speculate as to who may have been killed. The US has been hunting Jalaluddin Haqqani, the legendary mujahideen fighter and leader of the al Qaeda-linked Haqqani Network, and Siraj, his son. The Haqqani family mosque was targeted in an airstrike on Sept. 9.

Both men have been behind major attacks in Afghanistan and lead the insurgency in Khost, Paktia, and Paktika provinces. The Haqqanis shelter al Qaeda leaders and fighters, and support training camps in their tribal areas in Pakistan.

Beware of Pakistani sourcing

The Pakistani government, the military, and intelligence services have been eager to show that senior Taliban and al Qaeda leaders are being killed during Pakistani offensives in the tribal areas. The US has expressed concern over the rise of the Taliban and al Qaeda in Pakistan, and has upped unilateral airstrikes inside Pakistan’s lawless tribal areas in an attempt to prevent attacks on US soil. Pakistani is under enormous pressure to show results in fighting the Taliban and al Qaeda.

But this year's reports of the death of senior al Qaeda and Taliban leaders from Pakistani sources have almost always been false.

Since January 2008, nine senior al Qaeda and Taliban leaders, including Ayman al Zawahiri and Baitullah Mehsud, have been reported to have been killed inside Pakistan. Of those reported killed, only three have been confirmed killed. All three al Qaeda leaders were killed in US cross-border strikes, not in Pakistani offensive operations. The other six leaders who were reported killed by Pakistani sources have appeared in the media or on al Qaeda propaganda tapes.

Al Qaeda and the Taliban typically release a martyrdom announcement when senior operational leaders are killed. The reasons are twofold, a senior intelligence official told The Long War Journal. First, the terror groups want to celebrate the death of their leaders to help with recruitment. Second, the announcement serves to dispel any rumors within the organization and allows the replacement leader to take command.

Without independent confirmation from US intelligence and al Qaeda or the Taliban, reports of the death of senior terrorist leaders from exclusively Pakistani sources should be viewed with skepticism.

False reports:

The following al Qaeda and Taliban leaders were reported kill by Pakistani intelligence sources. These leaders later appeared in the media or on propaganda tapes.

Ayman al Zawahiri: Several large news outlets reported that al Qaeda's second in command was killed or seriously wounded in the May 14 airstrike in South Waziristan that killed al Qaeda WMD chief Abu Khabab al Masri. The Long War Journal was highly critical that Zawahiri was killed at the time. Zawahiri appeared on a videotape a week later urging Pakistanis to fight the government.

Baitullah Mehsud: On Sept. 30, several major news sources reported that Pakistani Taliban leader and South Waziristan warlord Baitullah Mehsud died of natural causes related to kidney problems. The Long War Journal was highly critical that Baitullah was dead, and intelligence sources said he was alive. On Oct. 1, the Taliban denied the report. Baitullah was seen visiting villages in South Waziristan to celebrate Eid-al-Fitr on Oct. 4.

Faqir Mohammed: The Pakistani military claimed Faqir Mohammed, the deputy commander of the Pakistani Taliban and the group's leader in the Bajaur tribal agency, was killed in a battle in Bajaur this summer. A Taliban spokesman immediately denied the report and Faqir appeared in front to the media a day later to dispute the claim of his death. The Pakistani military also claimed Faqir's son, Abdullah Mohammed, was killed, although no proof of his death has been offered.

Mustafa Abu Yazid: The Pakistani military claimed Mustafa Abu Yazid, al Qaeda's senior commander in Afghanistan, was killed in a battle in the Bajaur tribal agency this summer. The Long War Journal was highly critical of the reports of Yazid's death. Al Qaeda never confirmed Yazid's death, and the Pakistani military and intelligence agencies never presented evidence he was killed. Yazid has since appeared on multiple videotapes, including the Oct. 4 release that featured Adam Gadahn. The Pakistani military, who refer to Yazid as Abu Saeed al Masri, claimed Yazid was dead as recently as Sept. 26.

Adam Gadahn: Numerous Pakistani sources told multiple major news outlets that Gadahn was killed in the Jan. 28 airstrike in North Waziristan that killed senior al Qaeda leader Abu Laith al Libi. The Long War Journal was highly critical of the reports of Gadahn's death. Speculation grew after Gadahn failed to appear on al Qaeda propaganda tapes, As Sahab stopped producing English translations for the tapes, and some problems were reported with the release of videos and audio. Gadahn later appeared on a tape on Oct. 4, along with Yazid. Gadahn is the American al Qaeda spokesman who is wanted by the US for treason.

Qari Hussain: The Pakistani military claimed Qari Hussain, a senior lieutenant to Baitullah Mehsud who ran a suicide bomber nursery in South Waziristan, was killed during operations in January. Hussain held a press conference in South Waziristan on May 23, and mocked the Pakistani military. "I am alive, don't you see me?" Hussain said.

Confirmed kills:

Al Qaeda confirmed the death of all three leaders. The US killed the terrorist leaders in airstrikes in Pakistan’s tribal areas.

Abu Laith al Libi: Abu Laith al Libi was killed in a US strike inside the North Waziristan tribal agency in Pakistan in late January. Al Libi was the leader of the Libyan Islamic Fighting Group and served as a chief spokesman for al Qaeda. Al Libi also commanded al Qaeda forces in Afghanistan.

Abu Sulayman Jazairi: On May 14, a US airstrike killed Abu Sulayman Jazairi along with 13 associates in an attack against a Taliban and al Qaeda safe house in the town of Damadola in Pakistan's Bajaur tribal agency. Jazairi was a senior Algerian operative for al Qaeda's central organization who directed the group's external operations against the West. He is described as a senior trainer, an explosives expert, and an operational commander tasked with planning attacks on the West.

Abu Khabab al Masri: The US military killed Abu Khabab al Masri during a targeted strike on an al Qaeda safe house in the village of Zeralita in the Azam Warsak region of South Waziristan on July 28. Khabab was al Qaeda's chief bomb maker and headed its chemical and biological weapons programs.
 
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How many of the above were confirmed by ISPR before turning out to be false?

When it comes to 'anonymous sources'' claiming this and that, they have as much credibility as the Mark Mazzeti reports accusing the ISI and Gen. Kiyani of supporting the Taliban. We haven't seen any evidence form the US over its 'accusations' either have we?

Just like there was no evidence over Iraq's WMD's, so lets not go pointing fingers at Pakistan when the US military, intelligence and adminsitration itself seems a pack of liars.

When the military has referred to those it suspected of being killed or injured, it has usually clarified that it is basing it on XYZ intercepts or intelligence.

The spin from the US media continues to be arrogant and full of distortions.
 
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Of course if the above refers to the Pakistani media, then the argument is valid, but the way it is worded intends to cast the blame on the PA when it seems to me that it has been clear the PA has always qualified its statements and been careful about officially making claims.
 
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Now these are the militant leaders that the military has officially stated were killed:

He said four of the dead militant commanders appeared to be foreigners: Egyptian Abu Saeed Al-Masri; Abu Suleiman, an Arab; an Uzbek commander named Mullah Mansoor; and an Afghan commander called Manaras.

The fifth was a Pakistani commander named only Abdullah, a son of ageing hardline leader Maulvi Faqir Mohammad who is based in Bajaur and has close ties to Al-Qaeda second-in-command Ayman al-Zawahiri.

AFP: Pakistan says five top militants among 1,000 dead in offensive

Roggio questions the killing of Masri, and offers his appearance on a video as evidence. There is as of yet no sign of Abdullah. Hardly the picture of 'deception' painted by Roggio.
 
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Here is another statement by the Pakistan military regarding reports that Faqir Mohammed was killed:
"We are receiving conflicting reports in this regard," said Pakistani military spokesman Major Murad in an interview with The Post. "Some say the commander is dead while the other are saying that he is injured. But I cannot say anything of sure in this regard."

Taliban leader in Bajaur rumored killed in Pakistani strikes - The Long War Journal

Hardly the definitive claim of his death that Roggio would have us believe Pakistan is deceiving the world with.

Perhaps Roggio needs apply a little more critical analysis when reading statements and news reports and refrain from his own 'deception' and lies.

Absolute garbage by Roggio.
 
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This is from the website of long war:

About The Long War Journal
Mission:

The Long War Journal is dedicated to providing original and accurate reporting and analysis of the Long War (also known as the Global War on Terror). This is accomplished through its programs of embedded reporters, news and news aggregation, podcasts, and other multimedia formats.

The Long War Journal is published by Public Multimedia Inc., a nonprofit media company.

The Long War Journal publishes four sections daily: Featured Articles, Today In, News links, and News Videos. The Special Features section is updated as the features are published. The Long War also is in partnership with Covert Radio to produce a weekly podcast.

Featured Articles:

The main entries at The Long War Journal are written by the staff, and focus on the major news of the day in the Long War. The entries include reports from reporters in the field, existing news and wire reports, and confidential and public sources.

Covert Radio:

The Long War partners with Covert Radio to produce one hour podcasts. The program is released daily.

Special Features:

The Special Features section consists of original reporting and analysis, multimedia presentations, and compiled embedded reports produced by the Staff of The Long War Journal.

Today In:

The Today In section is a roundup of the important news of the day in the major theaters or related to existing terror groups. The section is updated throughout the day.

News:

The News consists of open source reporting, analysis, opinion, and commentary from news organizations, think tanks, blogs, and other sources. These are articles of interest; the staff of The Long War Journal does not necessarily endorse the views expressed in the reporting, analysis, opinion, and commentary. The News section is updated throughout the day.

You will note they are hardly an objective view, in fact they come to the situation with a complete ideology, outlook and this colors their reportage and analysis.
 
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How many of the above were confirmed by ISPR before turning out to be false?

When it comes to 'anonymous sources'' claiming this and that, they have as much credibility as the Mark Mazzeti reports accusing the ISI and Gen. Kiyani of supporting the Taliban. We haven't seen any evidence form the US over its 'accusations' either have we?

Just like there was no evidence over Iraq's WMD's, so lets not go pointing fingers at Pakistan when the US military, intelligence and adminsitration itself seems a pack of liars.

When the military has referred to those it suspected of being killed or injured, it has usually clarified that it is basing it on XYZ intercepts or intelligence.

The spin from the US media continues to be arrogant and full of distortions.
Well said my friend! No high ranking Pakistani official confirmed the deaths, these are all just media reports.

On the other hand, the Bush administration told at least 935 lies just before the Iraq war:

President George W. Bush and seven of his administration's top officials, including Vice President Dick Cheney, National Security Adviser Condoleezza Rice, and Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld, made at least 935 false statements in the two years following September 11, 2001, about the national security threat posed by Saddam Hussein's Iraq. Nearly five years after the U.S. invasion of Iraq, an exhaustive examination of the record shows that the statements were part of an orchestrated campaign that effectively galvanized public opinion and, in the process, led the nation to war under decidedly false pretenses.More.


And who can forget this clown at the UN claming that US has proof that Iraq was manufacturing Weapons of Mass Destruction. :lol:

acbd5e48dd2d2c64113191ede5f5d3ff.jpg



So Roggio, who’s the liar? :wave:
 
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Well said my friend! No high ranking Pakistani official confirmed the deaths, these are all just media reports.

On the other hand, the Bush administration told at least 935 lies just before the Iraq war:

President George W. Bush and seven of his administration's top officials, including Vice President Dick Cheney, National Security Adviser Condoleezza Rice, and Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld, made at least 935 false statements in the two years following September 11, 2001, about the national security threat posed by Saddam Hussein's Iraq. Nearly five years after the U.S. invasion of Iraq, an exhaustive examination of the record shows that the statements were part of an orchestrated campaign that effectively galvanized public opinion and, in the process, led the nation to war under decidedly false pretenses.More.


And who can forget this clown at the UN claming that US has proof that Iraq was manufacturing Weapons of Mass Destruction. :lol:

acbd5e48dd2d2c64113191ede5f5d3ff.jpg



So Roggio, who’s the liar? :wave:

are you saying that Pakistani Army is on the footsteps of Bush and his group ?
I am wrong because others are wrong ?

as Bill roggio says in the comment section and I quote
Let me clarify: Yazid and Hussain were claimed killed by a senior Frontier Corps General and the head of the ISPR respectively. These were not low-level, anonymous sources. Senior Pakistani commanders have blatantly distorted friendly and enemy casualties in the past as well. And let's not even discuss the catch and release program that exists with senior Taliban, al Qaeda, and other jihadi leaders.

We can argue intentions, but the end result is it serves to deceive Pakistan's allies as to its efforts to fight. And again, I completely agree that part of Pakistan's problem is that there really is no state but a grouping of powerful actors under the guise of a state.

I don't know how long you've been reading, but we have dealt with problems in Afghanistan. This doesn't change the fact that Pakistan is coming apart.

 
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are you saying that Pakistani Army is on the footsteps of Bush and his group ?
I am wrong because others are wrong ?

as Bill roggio says in the comment section and I quote

The deaths were reported by media not Pakistan army.

But since the phobia about us is not going anywhere so :coffee:
 
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The deaths were reported by media not Pakistan army.

But since the phobia about us is not going anywhere so :coffee:

Jana ji why bother and waste your energy in countering nonsense.
 
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The deaths were reported by media not Pakistan army.

But since the phobia about us is not going anywhere so :coffee:

Yazid and Hussain were claimed killed by a senior Frontier Corps General and the head of the ISPR respectively. These were not low-level, anonymous sources
 
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Yazid and Hussain were claimed killed by a senior Frontier Corps General and the head of the ISPR respectively. These were not low-level, anonymous sources

And what is the name of that senior FC Gen????

Plus i remember the ISPR people till last minute were saying that there were unconfirmed reports and they are not in a position to claim that.
 
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are you saying that Pakistani Army is on the footsteps of Bush and his group ?
I am wrong because others are wrong ?
Nope, I did not say that. I said: No high ranking Pakistani official confirmed the deaths, these are all just media reports. So what are you talking about?


as Bill roggio says in the comment section and I quote
Where is the proof, why should we believe Roggio? :coffee:
 
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Yazid and Hussain were claimed killed by a senior Frontier Corps General and the head of the ISPR respectively. These were not low-level, anonymous sources

I posted the statement of the Military personnel involved that claimed fiver AQ leaders killed, with their names. The only one specifically mentioned killed (who turned out not to be per Roggio) was Masri.

I also posted the statement of the official referring to Qari Hussain's death who Roggio mentions again in his comments per you. Here it is again:

"We are receiving conflicting reports in this regard," said Pakistani military spokesman Major Murad in an interview with The Post. "Some say the commander is dead while the other are saying that he is injured. But I cannot say anything of sure in this regard."

Where is the categorical claim that Hussain died as Roggio claimed? I was willing to give him the benefit of the doubt based on his original post, it is quite clear that he either has limited reading comprehension, or is outright lying now.

Where are the press releases quoting the Military officials involved categorically claiming that the other people Roggio mentioned were killed?

So far it is only the instance of Masri that he is correct about, and given the fog of war, difficult conditions, that can be chalked down to poor intel. not deliberate deceit. 1 out of 5, and the rest is distortion, and spin.

So, post the rest of the military statements categorically claiming the deaths of those leaders please.
 
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