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Let’s talk transfer of technology

shree835

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It is good that Prime Minister Narendra Modi and Defence Minister Arun Jaitley have made it clear to the U.S. Defence Minister, Chuck Hagel, who was in India earlier this month, that the pure sale of defence hardware by the U.S. to India is far from enough.

The way we should go with the Americans has to be on the lines of the co-development and co-production of the state-of-the-art Fifth Generation Fighter Aircraft (FGFA) with the Russians.

However, India, which agreed to buy 39 AH-64D Apache helicopters for the Army in addition to the 22 now under negotiation, is in talks again for purchase by the Indian Air Force (IAF) from the U.S. manufacturer, Boeing. This is being done without transfer of technology (TOT) to Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) for the local manufacture of all these 61 helicopters, which is bad for the country. Such a number of helicopters, senior managers and engineers of HAL’s Helicopter Division argue forcefully, is large enough for substantial local content-based production. Neither the IAF nor the Army contracts with Boeing has gone so far as to make TOT result in techno-commercially viable production here feasible and viable. The Ministry of Defence should act immediately to tie-up such TOT-based production by HAL instead of proceeding with mere import of the finished product.

Defence supplies by the U.S.

Will the U.S. government agree? If we use the multi-billion U.S. dollar value of the two contracts as leverage and exert pressure, they will have to. This would mean new jobs for HAL and its sub-contractors. It would also mean we would have a nationally controlled spares production base in the country, which would be orders of magnitude cheaper than supply of spares from the U.S. The bread and butter for the supplier come from hugely priced spares; not from the main equipment.

If one were to analyse defence supplies by U.S. companies under the U.S. government’s direction and control even to their “closest allies” such as the U.K., one would find that it is the policy of the U.S. government to severely restrict not only TOT in general, but transfer of technology relating to critical sub-assemblies, modules and components too, making us eternally dependent on them.

A specific case will illustrate the reality. The case pertains to the Sea Harrier, which is aircraft carrier-borne and uses vertical take off and landing (VTOL). The U.K. was the inventor of VTOL technology. India had bought two squadrons (around 30 aircraft) of the Sea Harrier from the British Aircraft Corporation (BAC) way back in the 1970s for its aircraft carriers. When the Atal Bihari Vajpayee-led National Democratic Alliance government was in power (1999-2004), we sent our Sea Harriers to the BAC for a thorough upgrade. At that time, the Ministry of Defence, the Navy and the BAC knew that such an upgrade would call for the BAC importing some critical sub-systems, modules and components (hereafter collectively referred to as “modules”) from the U.S. This was because those modules had been imported by the BAC even for the Sea Harriers it had produced in the U.K. and supplied to the British Navy.

That the U.S. government would prove “difficult” in clearing the supply of those modules for our Sea Harriers was recognised by both the BAC and the Defence Ministry. So they sounded out the U.S. government agencies concerned. The U.S. response was non-committal. Nevertheless, the Ministry went ahead. Why? Because we did not have an option. Over 25 years, the Indian Navy operated those aircraft, but no effort was made to successfully indigenise those modules. We just merrily went along with importing those modules from the BAC, which in turn kept importing them from the U.S. companies concerned at huge increases in prices from time to time.

It was not surprising, therefore, that the U.S. government refused the supplies to the BAC for fitment on our Sea Harriers. The BAC and the British Navy then told India that the U.S. government had done likewise, even in regard to the Harriers of the British Navy despite the U.K. being the country’s “closest ally.”

The U.S. government finally agreed to the export of the modules concerned, but only after former British Prime Minister Tony Blair flew to Washington D.C. to specifically persuade the U.S. President to release them. As far as our requirements of the modules were concerned, Mr. Vajpayee had done something similar.

This case shows how even British and European defence equipment manufacturers have to constantly face and deal with the U.S. government’s export controls on them on a wide array of modules, despite the fact that all of them are supposedly equal members of NATO.

Being circumspect in dealings

This kind of policy and practice by the U.S. government also came up with regard to the “upgraded” F-16 Falcon and the F-18 Hornet fighter-bombers which Lockheed Martin and Boeing respectively had offered India against the global tender put out by the Ministry of Defence/IAF for 126 Medium Multi-Role Combat Aircraft (MMRCA) four years ago. Of all the six bidders, the TOT and terminal local content were the smallest in the case of both the U.S. planes. Therefore we have to be extremely circumspect in dealing with the U.S. government in all high technology defence systems from the transfer of technology and local production content points of view.

(Ashok Parthasarathi was the Science and Technology adviser to Prime Minister Indira Gandhi.)

Having a production base in the country would mean national control over spare parts, so as to not remain at the mercy of the supplier

Let’s talk transfer of technology - The Hindu
 
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Hah! The chances of the US being invaded and colonized by Canada are greater than the US ever agreeing to transfer tech as critical as that found in an AH-64.
 
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Hah! The chances of the US being invaded and colonized by Canada are greater than the US ever agreeing to transfer tech as critical as that found in an AH-64.
Why depend on transfer of tech? Just take the stuff apart and reverse engineer it like the Chinese do. Or we can always outsource it to them!! :azn: :lol:
 
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Why depend on transfer of tech? Just take the stuff apart and reverse engineer it like the Chinese do. Or we can always outsource it to them!! :azn: :lol:
I wouldn't say we need reverse engineering but a good organizational framework to hack and steal information if needed. If others can, why can't India with its tremendous IT potential set up clandestine research and information acquisition units above and beyond what she has now?
 
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Why depend on transfer of tech? Just take the stuff apart and reverse engineer it like the Chinese do. Or we can always outsource it to them!! :azn: :lol:

as if India is capable of “reverse engineering” even given the real stuff、 full blueprints and additional hand-to-hand technical assistance。:D
 
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as if India is capable of “reverse engineering” even given full blueprints and additional hand-to-hand technical assistance。:D
Oh yeah then Mangalyaan must have also been made by Americans .:coffee:

Wait for 30more days and you'll know what India is capable of.
 
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Ashok Parthasarathi's piece is a little confused and even misconceived.
This term Transfer of Technology (TOT) is so large an umbrella expression that it can mean just about anything. There are levels of TOT, just as there levels of assemblies or components incorporated in sophisticated machines like aircraft or other Defence related Eqpt.
Then the question arises: at what level should the TOT be carried out. If it includes how to fabricate assemblies or sub assemblies of the wings and fuselage of the aircraft; that will come very easily and can be absorbed very easily.
No big deal.

Now let us look at say; parts of the hydraulic system used to actuate the control surfaces. There will be pumps, valves, pipelines and actuators. This is not difficult to transfer or assimilate either, so it can be transferred. There is one caveat though; systems like this are not made or designed by the manufacturer of the aircraft but by dedicated manufacturers of such eqpt who either custom-build them for the aircraft manufacturer or they have a range of products which the aircraft manufacturer selects from to meet requirements. But this TOT has to be arranged separately with that specific manufacturer. In many cases it does not make economic sense to do so, as anybody here who is familiar with industrial manufacturing will attest. Just as it makes sense to buy industrial fasteners, seals etc from bulk manufacturers of such items, instead of trying to make the last one of them.
Even instrumentation and engineering sensors largely come off the shelf. Just as all the bits and pieces of Ejection Seats!

Moving up the scale of sophistication/technology and hence proprietory knowledge: let us look at avionics. This is where TOT is valuable. But it is valuable for manufacture, not necessarily for spares. This also happens to be most contentious area, since the IP of the original manufacturer is so precious to him. So will he transfer the very last bit of TOT regarding this? He may be reluctant to do so beyond a point, and with good reasons for that.

So if one is looking for such TOT to able to set up a high-tech aircraft/aerospace industry out of a single major aircraft induction program, one is likely to get disappointed!
There are only three ways for that: get some basic/core technologies transferred or learned by one own Technologists (the most legitimate way) or create one's own R&D Programs to develop/create that Tech (the most risky way) or simply attempt to "reverse-engineer".

Other wise TOT is no "Magic Wand" to be able to make one's own aircraft or anything else.
 
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For this reason,
Order the initial NMRH deal of 16 S-70 and then proceed with co-productin /development of MH-60 Romio for the remaining RFI issued 123 helicopters.
TATA can be a key private player here.
 
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@Capt.Popeye
sir we are building scorpene submarine in india with so called 100 % tot.
How does that tech transfer benefits us in terms of our indigenous submarine building capability in future?
Will we able to incorporate the production technologies we absorbs during building scorpene subs in to our indigenous projects in future.
Will we able to do major modification, overhauling or mid life updates to scorpene subs on our own?
We had the blueprints of bofors guns for years and now drdo is building a upgraded version of it. Can we do the same with scorpene if there is no restriction of IP rights.

I mean how does this 100 % tot thing works.

regards
 
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Oh yeah then Mangalyaan must have also been made by Americans .:coffee:

The americans could have never up with anything close to the sling shot.They can only make movies at the budget we make mangalyaans. Lolzz

Wait for 30more days and you'll know what India is capable of.

levina the Americans are VERY capable of gravity assisted slingshot launches. Michael Minovich, an American theorised it's use.

The Voyager 1 an American spacecraft that is the farthest human made object in the universe, used the 'slingshot' technique.
 
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@Capt.Popeye
sir we are building scorpene submarine in india with so called 100 % tot.
How does that tech transfer benefits us in terms of our indigenous submarine building capability in future?
Will we able to incorporate the production technologies we absorbs during building scorpene subs in to our indigenous projects in future.
Will we able to do major modification, overhauling or mid life updates to scorpene subs on our own?
We had the blueprints of bofors guns for years and now drdo is building a upgraded version of it. Can we do the same with scorpene if there is no restriction of IP rights.

I mean how does this 100 % tot thing works.

regards

First of all: regardless of the TOT business, the main thing is 'licensed manufacture'. The Contract actually governs that transaction; TOT (to whatever extent) is just a part of that contract of licensed manufacture. The clauses that have been negotiated into that contract are the main thing.

I do not know the specifics of the Scorpene deal but can safely tell you that the 'licensed manufacture' is confined to the 6 being constructed. If any more are to be built, then a fresh contract and 'license' will need to be negotiated. But it will be different for assemblies, sub-assemblies and components (which can be required as spares/replacements).
Going by what we can read, DCNS has carried out TOT to some Indian Industries as well as MDL. So that means that the continuing manufacture of those "modules" (to use Parthasarathi's expression) will go on.
But the techniques/technology absorbed as part of the manufacturing systems/processes can be freely used in local projects. To explain: if India designs its own SSK, they can be used there.

Regarding upgradation; some clauses are built into the contract usually, so that can be resorted to.
Just as OFB/DRDO took recourse to that in the Bofors/Dhanush affair.

Interestingly, reverse-flow also can take place. In the Jaguar project; HAL made improvements/refinements in parts of the aircraft. BAE accessed them and used them.
Ditto for the Gnat aircraft; most of the improvements were carried out in India and Folland UK (the OEM) got the benefit of that. Of course since the Gnat was only made in India, Folland and Teddy Petter (the designer) could not really put it to practical application; but they acknowledged the Indian contribution with gratitude.
 
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levina the Americans are VERY capable of gravity assisted slingshot launches. Michael Minovich, an American theorised it's use.

The Voyager 1 an American spacecraft that is the farthest human made object in the universe, used the 'slingshot' technique.
Okay I didnt know that.
But that was not the context in which I had mentioned Mangalyaan and sling shot.
 
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Okay I didnt know that.
But that was not the context in which I had mentioned Mangalyaan and sling shot.

The general rule is what the rest of the world can do, the Americans do better.

Except cars, food and women.
 
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as if India is capable of “reverse engineering” even given the real stuff、 full blueprints and additional hand-to-hand technical assistance。:D

Come on dude!! How tough is it to open everything part by part and study what has gone into it. Your failure is in doing that !! You can never dub the original quality, you have so far been only able to forge the materials with the resources available in your country. India on the other hand by not Reverse Engineering has complied to the belief the manufacturer has in us and are rewarding with complete Blue Print.

You have a very weak technological base as compared to India in handling high end technologies. Our foundation is laid on cutting edge technologies while yours is in forging duplicate parts with abysmal quality.
 
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