Lessons in hate and violence-undercover in a mainstream UK Muslim School

[Agnostic_Indian]

A whole generation? Let's not exaggerate here. Students in these particular classes will be poisoned, and I have already said the teachers and parents need to address this.

Compare that to the video I posted, which shows the hatred being ingrained literally throughout the whole generation and throughout the world. This anti-Arab, anti-Muslim hatred isn't being preached in select classrooms, but in mainstream American media which dominates the globe.



I have nothing against Indians per se; I am biased against anyone who justifies Islamophobia.

Let me put it this way:
- when a black supremacist group does something, people don't say "there go the blacks. Racism is an understandable reaction to the blacks' inaction"
- when abortion clinics get bombed, people don't say "there go the Christians. Christ-bashing is an understandable reaction to the Christians' inaction"
- when Zionists call for killing Arab 'pigs', people (at least reasonable people) don't say "there go the Jews. Anti-semitism is an understandable reaction to the Jews' inaction".

All these groups justify their actions baased on religion or race, but the larger community is not demonized. Why the difference for Muslim extremists?

so according to you when everybody else do crime world does not target them when muslims does they target muslims. what do you think the reason is ?

 

[Developereo]

so according to you when everybody else do crime world does not target them when muslims does they target muslims. what do you think the reason is ?

No, I am saying when someone bombs abortion clinics, people condemn the bombers and the extremist preachers, not Christians as a whole.
Similarly for the other groups.

But when extremist Muslims do crazy stuff, the media gives the impression that they represent the mainstream Muslim community.

There is the expectation that the mainstream Muslim community must police their crazies. There is no such expectation from mainstream Jews, Christians, etc. This false and unreasonabnle expectation is then used to blame the entire community because they 'failed to police their extremists'.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

No, I am saying when someone bombs abortion clinics, people condemn the bombers and the extremist preachers, not Christians as a whole.
Similarly for the other groups.

But when extremist Muslims do crazy stuff, the media gives the impression that they represent the mainstream Muslim community.

Agreed, I think that the act of assigning blame to an entire community, in todays world... is mostly used against Muslims.

When a white/black person commits a crime, people don't blame the white or black communities as a whole. At least not in the mainstream media.

However when a Muslim does something similar, suddenly you have late-night TV shows, with experts analyzing the connection between his act and Islam.

Racism is taboo now, but attacking a religious community doesn't seem to carry the same stigma. As an atheist myself, I feel that this is wrong. Prejudice is prejudice.

 

[below_freezing]

Agreed, I think that assigning blame to an entire community nowadays, is mostly used against Muslims.

When a white/black person commits a crime, people don't blame the white or black communities as a whole. At least not in the mainstream media.

However when a Muslim does something similar, suddenly you have late-night TV shows, with experts analyzing the connection between his act and Islam.

Racism is taboo now, but attacking a religious community doesn't seem to carry the same stigma. As an atheist myself, I feel that this is wrong. Prejudice is prejudice.

Nope. Racism against east asians and muslims is fair and acceptable.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

True --- but ever wondered why it is happening in the first place ?

Same as any other prejudice, I would imagine.

It is the same old hatred... it just changes targets.

 

[Roybot]

A whole generation? Let's not exaggerate here. Students in these particular classes will be poisoned, and I have already said the teachers and parents need to address this.

.

This is only one madarssa that has come to the light. Are you saying that this is strictly an isolated case and this is the first time this sorta thing has happened?

Compare that to the video I posted, which shows the hatred being ingrained literally throughout the whole generation and throughout the world. This anti-Arab, anti-Muslim hatred isn't being preached in select classrooms, but in mainstream American media which dominates the globe.

Those are post 9/11 children. I don't blame them or their parents for thinking the way they do, rather i blame the perpetrators of 9/11 and the ideology backing them. Kids have a very impressionable mind and usually not the best judge. Am sure if they had shown a photo of clean shaven muslim person dressed in western clothes the kids would have judged the person differently. Or say if the Asian man was shown in "Asian clothes". The kids are merely disliking the people based on their appearance. They are yet to see the world, so anything which looks "different" or "unusual" to them is disliked by them. And if American media was so biased and under Jewish control, the video on which you are basing your debate on would have never been made right ?

I have nothing against Indians per se; I am biased against anyone who justifies Islamophobia.

Let me put it this way:
- when a black supremacist group does something, people don't say "there go the blacks. Racism is an understandable reaction to the blacks' inaction"
- when abortion clinics get bombed, people don't say "there go the Christians. Christ-bashing is an understandable reaction to the Christians' inaction"
- when Zionists call for killing Arab 'pigs', people (at least reasonable people) don't say "there go the Jews. Anti-semitism is an understandable reaction to the Jews' inaction".

All these groups justify their actions baased on religion or race, but the larger community is not demonized. Why the difference for Muslim extremists?

Yeah the only problem with black supremacist or bombings of aborting clinics by catholics, doesn't happen that often. Am yet to hear about any such incident. And as for "Zionists" call for killing Arab "pigs" , you got to be kidding me. Calling someone names and blowing thousands of people into pieces in the middle of the city are two different things. You only need to look around this forum to see some of the choice words being used for the Jews and Israel.

I for one have never blamed Muslims all together. I have specifically used the terms "mainstream" and "radicals". Islamophobia is cause of the radicals, and the mainstream Muslims need to get rid of them. If you think thats justifying islamophobia, then I guess I am.

 

[Agnostic_Indian]

No, I am saying when someone bombs abortion clinics, people condemn the bombers and the extremist preachers, not Christians as
a whole.
Similarly for the other groups.

But when extremist Muslims do crazy stuff, the
media gives the impression that they represent the mainstream Muslim community.

There is the expectation that the mainstream Muslim community must police their crazies. There is no such expectation from mainstream Jews, Christians, etc. This false and unreasonabnle expectation is then used to blame the entire community because they 'failed to police their extremists'.

yes..you must..and except a few good people all others are apologetic or in denial.if you are proud of being muslim you must also be ashamed of bad things which muslims do.
look around the world the amount of terror activities happening in the name of islam will make anybody islamophobic.
here are my observation about islam/ muslims which you may not like.

1) zero tolerance level to criticism.
2)when they are majority they want political islam or islamic rule. when they are minority they want special treatment.

3.) they see everything through the lenses of religion.actually religion should be personal but for them it's not.which in turn force the world to look at their actions as a religious motivated (which is true ), for the religion.


4) terrorists grow in islam because there are so many religious hard liners in islam which provides man, money , ideology and shield to terrorism.

5) all muslims are not terrorists but most of terrorists are muslims(except few issue oriented terror org like LTTE, CHECHNYAN ETC).

i have more things to say but forum rules don't allow. i guess it's more than enough to get kicked out..lol..finally no offence intended.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

5) all muslims are not terrorists but most of terrorists are muslims.

I hate it when people say this.

Basic rule of logic: Correlation does not prove causation.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Correlation_does_not_imply_causation

 

[Agnostic_Indian]

I hate it when people say this.

Basic rule of logic: Correlation does not prove causation.

Correlation does not imply causation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

do you think it's just co incidence that growing number of terrorist being muslims is just a co incidence ? i don't agree. this happens regardless of geographical, cultural , political, ethnic boundaries.

 

[fallstuff]

yes..you must..and except a few good people all others are apologetic or in denial.if you are proud of being muslim you must also be ashamed of bad things which muslims do.
look around the world the amount of terror activities happening in the name of islam will make anybody islamophobic.
here are my observation about islam/ muslims which you may not like.

1) zero tolerance level to criticism.
2)when they are majority they want political islam or islamic rule. when they are minority they want special treatment.

3.) they see everything through the lenses of religion.actually religion should be personal but for them it's not.which in turn force the world to look at their actions as a religious motivated (which is true ), for the religion.


4) terrorists grow in islam because there are so many religious hard liners in islam which provides man, money , ideology and shield to terrorism.

5) all muslims are not terrorists but most of terrorists are muslims(except few issue oriented terror org like LTTE, CHECHNYAN ETC).

i have more things to say but forum rules don't allow. i guess it's more than enough to get kicked out..lol..finally no offence intended.

Another fundamentalist teaching how Muslims should behave. Coming from a guy that is proud to slaughter minorities in his own nation because they need to be taught a lesson. Get your act togather in your own land. Just a few posts ago another Indian posters was boasting " his fellow countrymen (possibly Hindus) would act violently " against this kind of behavior. I understand the concern of a British national making complain, but not from someone carrying the water for India

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

do you think it's just co incidence that growing number of terrorist being muslims is just a co incidence ? i don't agree.

What is your "theory" then? And try to keep it within the forum rules.

 

[Agnostic_Indian]

What is your "theory" then? And try to keep it within the forum rules.

there is no theory but commonsense. when it happens around the world regardless of country, political,geographical ethnical boundary we come to know that it's islam which got something wrong in it. A fish won't live if there is no water. so stop providing water (favourable condition ) to terrorism in islamic society. to cut that favourable conditionfavourable you need to.
1) stop defending, denying, sympathising act of terrorism and terrorists.
2)keep religion personal don't bring it to public life and politics.
3)tolerate criticism and reformist movements instead of saying it's all perfect noting can be changed.it is in the land of religious extremism/ narrow mindedness where the seeds of terrorism grow.
4) people who lead islam should do this reform. to lead the reform they need to think modern and intract with young people. so the leaders/ scholars must have modern education and out look.
5) instead living as separate group/ community muslims should be mingle with others and be more flexible.
6)govt's must not use/ support terror org for short term goals.
7)allow inter cast/ religious marriage and let people practice their own different beliefs in the same roof.this will lead to understand each others religion.when more and more such family's come it will sure make a positive change in society.

 

[Developereo]

This is only one madarssa that has come to the light. Are you saying that this is strictly an isolated case and this is the first time this sorta thing has happened?

Again, you seem to see things as an all-or-nothing phenomenon. Yes, it is more than one school. And, no, it is not a whole generation. There is a lot of room between these two extremes.

Those are post 9/11 children. I don't blame them or their parents for thinking the way they do, rather i blame the perpetrators of 9/11 and the ideology backing them.

So, by your logic, you can't blame Palestinian kids for hating Jews, since their parents were expelled from their rightful home by the Israelis.

Kids have a very impressionable mind and usually not the best judge. Am sure if they had shown a photo of clean shaven muslim person dressed in western clothes the kids would have judged the person differently. Or say if the Asian man was shown in "Asian clothes". The kids are merely disliking the people based on their appearance. They are yet to see the world, so anything which looks "different" or "unusual" to them is disliked by them.

Hogwash!
They had negative views of blacks, and there are far more black than Asians in the US.

And if American media was so biased and under Jewish control, the video on which you are basing your debate on would have never been made right ?

I said Zionist, not Jewish. If you don't even know the difference, why are you wasting everyone's time?

Yeah the only problem with black supremacist or bombings of aborting clinics by catholics, doesn't happen that often. Am yet to hear about any such incident.

Doesn't matter; the principle still applies.

And as for "Zionists" call for killing Arab "pigs" , you got to be kidding me. Calling someone names and blowing thousands of people into pieces in the middle of the city are two different things.

These words don't occur in isolation. Do you even know the root of the conflict?

Every year, for hundreds of years, observant Jews end their prayers with the words "next year in Jerusalem". What those words symbolize is the belief, reinforced in Jewish temples and religious teachings, that Jews, being God's Chosen People, are entitled to claim Palestine exclusively for a Jewish homeland because God promised that land to Abraham. That means, implicitly, that anyone else living on that land may be expelled. By whatever means necessary.

Talk about religious supremacy!

If you think thats justifying islamophobia, then I guess I am.

We never doubted that you did.

 

[Roybot]

Another fundamentalist teaching how Muslims should behave. Coming from a guy that is proud to slaughter minorities in his own nation because they need to be taught a lesson. Get your act togather in your own land. Just a few posts ago another Indian posters was boasting " his fellow countrymen (possibly Hindus) would act violently " against this kind of behavior. I understand the concern of a British national making complain, but not from someone carrying the water for India

No one's slaughtering minorities in India. Occasional riots occur everywhere. The percentage of minorities have gone up if anything unlike Banglidesh.

And if you are referring to my posts, read the context in which i said that, and when I said our country I meant all the eastern countries. If I show up in Dhaka tomorrow and start abusing your soldiers, how would Bangladeshis react?

 

[Developereo]

Yes. Why did they make that video? To prevent that stereotyping from happening.

John Stossel is a bit of a maverick and likes to take a contrarian view on many things. It's good to have people like that and I like watching his segments, but his reporting had no impact on the mainstream media.

If I show up in Dhaka tomorrow and start abusing your soldiers, how would Bangladeshis react?

Reasonable people would say you were insensitive. Bigots would say Hindus were insensitive