What's new

Lessons for GHQ in China's brokered agreement between Saudi & Iran

Pakistans diplomatic direction hasn't change..
This is a misconception peddled by the estranged and bewildered folks here who are actually going through a phase..they will be normal soon.

Pakistan's diplomatic direction has taken a nose dive. After what's done by Bajwa's establishment, now every country in the region and the world knows that Pakistanis have no self respect, their own military removes elected govts like a tissue paper just because a global power wasn't very pleased. I mean you can drop your pants so quick and claim that Pakistan's diplomatic position hasn't changed. Its hilarious!

There's no diplomatic policy when there's no certainty in the country. No business, no industry could predict how or when the next govt will be removed from low IQ GHQ. We have shown a terrible sign of weakness and with that no matter how strong diplomats we hire, no one is going to respect us.

Kind of statements Bajwa made in 2022 conference absolutely cleared my mind. I was amazed we are producing this much intellectually deprived lot from PMA and that even went on to become COAS. I mean who on earth make statements about your closest ally & world's second super power that we are only buying equipment from them out of "Majboori". A person with 1% sense of diplomacy & 1% sense of Foreign policy would have used any combination of words but this. A fundamental principle of diplomacy is NEVER show your desperation. The guy was so desperate, taking out his desperation in his terrible accent: "We were trained by you", "We were parners in SEATO and cento ". I mean what a joker as a COAS. Everyone knows entire history, they ALWAYS used you as puppets and as tissue paper, whether its Zia's jihad, or whether its War on Terror, they always knew Generals of Pak army as buy-able entities. Their relations with india is based on respect and equality. Ours based on hired gun. Now for timebeing they didn't required any use for you, so be calm and let civilians do the job but no Americans said we will often require Pak-airspace for over the horizon drone strikes and this guy IK is annoyance, his visit to Moscow was just an excuse. His vision to bring China close to OIC and eyeing russian natural resources were enough reasons to use local boys (GHQ) get rid of PTI. That's exactly happened. No one respect such country! no one!
 
Well, there's some hilarious people on twitter, who do big claims about themselves, calling themselves as "intelligence community of Pak" or whatever. They seems to peddle GHQ's actions without any insight or genuine thinking of their own.

This guy is giving enough proofs of Pak selling dirt cheap ammo to Ukrainians and he seems to be proud on that.

He forget to understand that India is making billions of dollars in re-exporting the russian oil & gas to the west while we shot ourselves in the foot, created political chaos and economic collapse just to sell peanuts. That's exactly the reflection of GHQ's vision:

Capture___45.PNG





Same guy hilariously claims that "intelligence community " of Pakistan has advice that elections to be postponed. I mean where do you find such brainless idiots ?

Capture_funny.PNG





Meanwhile away from bootlicker's world. The real world is totally different:

Capture_0.PNG


Capture_1.PNG
 
Well,
Every day one way or other GHQ's decision to overthrow an elected govt to please the americans is proving to be the worst catastrophe. Iran & Saudi going to establish relationship shows many things:-

1) China's established influence.
As China has brokered historic agreement and deal between two arch rivals. I bet one day China will brokered deal between south and north Koreas. China's approach is reconciliation, progress and connectivity. While US was always divide & conquer. World has recognized China as next super power. China is now a peer competitor to US, something which our generals who appears to be so influenced from US because of their trainings and all are unaware of.

2) GHQ's lack of strategic vision
I can never forget Bajwa's remarks in in security conference 2022 where he said: We buy weapons from China cos you (west) don't sell us. His mindset and statement is like a child complaining to his parents about some toys he wanted to buy but they didn't gave him permission. In my view, it was extremely foolish statement to make, it damaged our relations with China, also indicated how desperate Bajwa was to do just anything to please the west. In other words, he was saying that we have no choice that's why we buy chinese otherwise, we'd buy american or west. We see various reports on his pro-US and anti-China remarks with various journalist meetings.

Point is that GHQ completely lacked strategic vision, they had no idea where the world is going, they failed to recognize the strongest & closest alliance of US & india that there is no way US could put us in their good books when our worst enemy has become their strongest ally. There is no way they could give us any favor at expense of india. Then why on earth you would topple govts, create political chaos and economic storm in the country to please the outsiders ? Why on earth you annoy the only great power (china) which were backing you and supporting you all those years. Why on earth you were so eager to get in to US laps.

Year ago under IK govt, Pak were not only doing good at economic front like highest exports, booming textile industry, booming IT industry, mobile manufacturing, record sales of autos, record agriculture etc. But Pak was also doing great in geopolitics. Pak was doing OIC and inviting China in it (this made US upset against Khan), Pak was doing meetings on Afghanistan, Now we are completely discarded thanks to Bajwa's stunt. Whole region's NSA's including india met in Moscow for Afghanistan but obviously we were not invited. Its unbelievable how on earth our GHQ proved to be that dumb. They gave entire regional space & clout to india. Now no country trust us, Russia & China are now thinking Iran to replace us for many aspects. and whatever backflip jumps we did has not even impressed US. Asim Munir visited UK and others but not to China, Shaheen exercises got cancelled or postponed, China closed the consular office in pak, several other indicators shows they are simply annoyed at surprising & foolish moves by establishment. These moves have showed China clearly that Pak Generals are desperate to become puppets for US.
GHQ's strategic vision was apparent from "Jis din nayee hakumat ayee, dollar 1 rupiya sasta howa aur..."

3) Moment of Shame for many in PDF who used to criticize IK govt for not sending troops in Yemen.
We all remember many people in PDF were eager to send troops to Yemen, they were eager to discard Iran and participate in the war, There was one guy who always was ready to even start a war with Iran. Guess what, even Saudi & Iran patched up, where you'd hide your faces now? If you have so much habit of becoming mercenary for others then you have no self respect. So IK's policy yet again proved to be correct to not to become party in it. So the lesson in all that is NEVER let your military become mercenary for someone's else war.



Its time GHQ must apprise themselves with the real facts. Reconcile with China, stop selling any ammo for Ukraine (if they are doing it), Take benefit of Iran & Saudi agreement, Approach both (maybe through civil govt) and appreciate & support this agreement for region's prosperity, talk with Iran, make progress with Iran's oil & gas pipeline, and try to be a less puppet of the US, try to learn from Saudi & Iran, honorable countries do not always look at the west for their solutions, they do best decisions for their own national interests.

First off what else did u expect from 12th grade people.
Second diplomacy is the work of qualified civilians. Not military, so when the foundation is wrong, the whole structure is useless. The story of pak is same.
 
Well,
Every day one way or other GHQ's decision to overthrow an elected govt to please the americans is proving to be the worst catastrophe. Iran & Saudi going to establish relationship shows many things:-

1) China's established influence.
As China has brokered historic agreement and deal between two arch rivals. I bet one day China will brokered deal between south and north Koreas. China's approach is reconciliation, progress and connectivity. While US was always divide & conquer. World has recognized China as next super power. China is now a peer competitor to US, something which our generals who appears to be so influenced from US because of their trainings and all are unaware of.

2) GHQ's lack of strategic vision
I can never forget Bajwa's remarks in in security conference 2022 where he said: We buy weapons from China cos you (west) don't sell us. His mindset and statement is like a child complaining to his parents about some toys he wanted to buy but they didn't gave him permission. In my view, it was extremely foolish statement to make, it damaged our relations with China, also indicated how desperate Bajwa was to do just anything to please the west. In other words, he was saying that we have no choice that's why we buy chinese otherwise, we'd buy american or west. We see various reports on his pro-US and anti-China remarks with various journalist meetings.

Point is that GHQ completely lacked strategic vision, they had no idea where the world is going, they failed to recognize the strongest & closest alliance of US & india that there is no way US could put us in their good books when our worst enemy has become their strongest ally. There is no way they could give us any favor at expense of india. Then why on earth you would topple govts, create political chaos and economic storm in the country to please the outsiders ? Why on earth you annoy the only great power (china) which were backing you and supporting you all those years. Why on earth you were so eager to get in to US laps.

Year ago under IK govt, Pak were not only doing good at economic front like highest exports, booming textile industry, booming IT industry, mobile manufacturing, record sales of autos, record agriculture etc. But Pak was also doing great in geopolitics. Pak was doing OIC and inviting China in it (this made US upset against Khan), Pak was doing meetings on Afghanistan, Now we are completely discarded thanks to Bajwa's stunt. Whole region's NSA's including india met in Moscow for Afghanistan but obviously we were not invited. Its unbelievable how on earth our GHQ proved to be that dumb. They gave entire regional space & clout to india. Now no country trust us, Russia & China are now thinking Iran to replace us for many aspects. and whatever backflip jumps we did has not even impressed US. Asim Munir visited UK and others but not to China, Shaheen exercises got cancelled or postponed, China closed the consular office in pak, several other indicators shows they are simply annoyed at surprising & foolish moves by establishment. These moves have showed China clearly that Pak Generals are desperate to become puppets for US.
GHQ's strategic vision was apparent from "Jis din nayee hakumat ayee, dollar 1 rupiya sasta howa aur..."

3) Moment of Shame for many in PDF who used to criticize IK govt for not sending troops in Yemen.
We all remember many people in PDF were eager to send troops to Yemen, they were eager to discard Iran and participate in the war, There was one guy who always was ready to even start a war with Iran. Guess what, even Saudi & Iran patched up, where you'd hide your faces now? If you have so much habit of becoming mercenary for others then you have no self respect. So IK's policy yet again proved to be correct to not to become party in it. So the lesson in all that is NEVER let your military become mercenary for someone's else war.



Its time GHQ must apprise themselves with the real facts. Reconcile with China, stop selling any ammo for Ukraine (if they are doing it), Take benefit of Iran & Saudi agreement, Approach both (maybe through civil govt) and appreciate & support this agreement for region's prosperity, talk with Iran, make progress with Iran's oil & gas pipeline, and try to be a less puppet of the US, try to learn from Saudi & Iran, honorable countries do not always look at the west for their solutions, they do best decisions for their own national interests.

PDM had sufficient motive to overthrow PTI-led government [on its own] because of its corruption cases that were under investigation by NAB and FIA under PTI-led government, these cases are whitewashed by now.




PDM is a powerful faction and could pull strings in armed forces as well.

Khan has oversold US-led coup narrative in this matter, this narrative has done more harm than good in fact.

----

Pakistan is already aligned with China to the extent possible, CPEC is the single biggest representation of this fact in geopolitical terms and otherwise.


Pakistan has a civil nuclear deal with China as well.


Pakistani armed forces buy arms from China as well.


In spite of these developments, look where Pakistan stands in the present.

I recall a post in which I provided a good overview of how US contributes to Pakistan's economic situation and households, and the issue of Pakistan's significant trade deficit with China which Pakistan is unable to address due to lack of heavy industry and demand for Pakistani goods in Chinese markets.


Is it advisable for Pakistan to put all of its eggs in one basket?

In Pakistan's case, it makes sense to explore explore new avenues to develop its economy and military capability while maintaining good relations with China.

The entire OECD bloc can offer much more to Pakistan.

But Pakistan's pathetic political situation and corruption is off-putting to many countries out there. Pakistan needs to address these problems and signal its commitment to globalization instead of trying to sell CPEC to global audience.

----

KSA is exploring new avenues to develop its economy and military capability as well. Towards this end, KSA finds in China a new market for KSA to tap in full capacity and it is doing the honors.

KSA is one of the largest oil-producing countries in the world, and China has become its largest buyer.



This is a value-driven bilateral relationship in which both sides can meet important needs of each other.

China also has bilateral relations with Iran and could apply pressure on it to make amends with KSA.

But China cannot apply similar pressure on India to make amends with Pakistan. China itself has territorial disputes with India including in the J&K sector. China does not have territorial disputes with Iran on other hand.

KSA is not putting all of its eggs in one basket but awarding contracts to foreign entities on MERIT and in search for collaborative partnerships with willing companies for in-house production of various types of goods. KSA is looking forward to diversify its economic options in this manner.





----

American hardware is globally renowned for its quality, it has served Pakistani armed forces well on many counts. It makes sense to be in the position to purchase Western arms if not exclusively American. Do you think KSA has stopped purchasing American hardware? (NO)


There is much narrative building out there which push for bloc politics in line with Cold War dynamics. But KSA is moving away from bloc politics and pushing for globalization. Some people are mistaking this shift as strategic re-alignment with China, it isn't in strict sense.


KSA is inviting global investment deep down (see above).

It is important to look at the bigger picture of global developments and not misread them.

Pakistan needs to step out from its Cold War era mentality and invite global investment, if it is grow and prosper. But Pakistan has to address its pathetic political situation and menace of corruption for now.

Some here accuse Pakistani armed forces of being shortsighted while same is true for them.

India did not partake in bloc politics and look where it stand in the present in comparison to Pakistan. India is open to working with entire world more or less. It has trade relations with China as well but territorial disputes are ongoing.
 
India did not partake in bloc politics and look where it stand in the present in comparison to Pakistan. India is open to working with entire world more or less. It has trade relations with China as well but territorial disputes are ongoing.

That's exactly we want. I never want all eggs to be placed in one basket or go anti-US. My only point is you never compromise your integrity for someone else. Armed forces not only interfere but throw elected govts and then we expect to make our policies like india and brilliantly gain so much from opposing sides like Russia & US simultaneously is not possible. India never have become hired gun and will not become so. It will also never be dictated and won't ever topple its own govts.

My whole reservation is that lately GHQ has not taken a balanced approach. They have tried throw most eggs in the US basket at the expense of losing regional influence and my worry is that they did COMPLETELY futile effort. Our worst enemy is US best ally, there's a immense amount of influence and strategic partnerships between two. There's simply no favor Pak should expect from US. General Bajwa did massive mistake initiating a political chaos in the country on US displeasure.

Lastly, multiple leaders of PDM themselves had said on record that no confidence motion is impossible to succeed without establishment backing. I mean no one EVER leaves power in Pakistan, how on earth BAAP & MQM left the govt despite them being in ministries. Its common knowledge and something which even do not require arguments that its military led operation that resulted in no-confidence motion. Someone was calling the shots while govt was of PTI. Even PDM themselves know that they are in power because of military. PDM ministers in initial days hinted that they are brought to cleap up and take burden of PTI incompetence and now if they are removed then they will not accept and speak out everything.


GHQ's backflip jumps resulted in complete lack of our self reflect. It has severely dented our regional influence, China has acknowledged that Pakistani establishment is totally US puppets and hence unreliable. They are now working actively with Iran.

Capture___34.PNG




BTW, establishment & Imran khan's vision were completely different

Capture___23.PNG
 
Last edited:
3) Moment of Shame for many in PDF who used to criticize IK govt for not sending troops in Yemen.
We all remember many people in PDF were eager to send troops to Yemen, they were eager to discard Iran and participate in the war, There was one guy who always was ready to even start a war with Iran. Guess what, even Saudi & Iran patched up, where you'd hide your faces now? If you have so much habit of becoming mercenary for others then you have no self respect. So IK's policy yet again proved to be correct to not to become party in it. So the lesson in all that is NEVER let your military become mercenary for someone's else war.




Its time GHQ must apprise themselves with the real facts. Reconcile with China, stop selling any ammo for Ukraine (if they are doing it), Take benefit of Iran & Saudi agreement, Approach both (maybe through civil govt) and appreciate & support this agreement for region's prosperity, talk with Iran, make progress with Iran's oil & gas pipeline, and try to be a less puppet of the US, try to learn from Saudi & Iran, honorable countries do not always look at the west for their solutions, they do best decisions for their own national interests.
Hi,

What a ROTTEN thought process.

Don't let the door hit you in the back.

Moment of shame and disgrace for those who were not in favor of sending troops.

It was pakistan's east india company moment to establish themselves as a power.

As a power---it would have been upto Pakistan as how to deal with Iran and Saudia economically & militarily from a position of strength---.

If you can't see that and act accordingly---you don't deserve to be a nation.



With 500K troops in GCC---we would have had this financial crisisi,
 
their own military removes elected govts like a tissue p
Happening since 50s..
Not necessarily to please some one.

. I was amazed we are producing this much intellectually deprived lot from PMA and that even went on to become COAS. I mean who on earth make statements about your closest ally & world's second super power that we are only buying equipment from them out of "Majboori".
What statement?
He said it right that US have one of the best military production and if US doesn't sell it to us we will get it from someone else.
Best strategy to imphasize a balance in policy rather saying we bought a powers stuff because we want to benefit their military complex.
The guy was so desperate, taking out his desperation in his terrible accent: "We were trained by you", "We were parners in SEATO and cento ".
This is not desperation but cold facts.. and this is not pleading but a case build to support the fact why pakistan developed an alliance with China in early 60s when they saw US supporting our enemy despite us being part if the seato cento camp.
Everyone knows entire history, they ALWAYS used you as puppets and as tissue paper, whether its Zia's jihad, or whether its War on Terror, they always knew Generals of Pak army as buy-able entities. Their relations with india is based on respect and equality. Ours based on hired gun. Now for timebeing they didn't required any use for you, so be calm and let civilians do the job but no Americans said we will often require Pak-airspace for over the horizon drone strikes and this guy IK is annoyance, his visit to Moscow was just an excuse. His vision to bring China close to OIC and eyeing russian natural resources were enough reasons to use local boys (GHQ) get rid of PTI. That's exactly happened. No one respect such country! no one!
Naah... Pakistan army had been doing yearly military exercises with Russians.. since 2013.
And we have been talking on various trade deals for some time.. our cooperation with Russia in military is limited as its a major ally of india.. and in resources.. its pretty far off.the transportation costs don't make their exports the best business case as there is no rail link between ce tral Asia and Pakistan.. by sea lines they have to circumvent all around....we get the same thing from nearby for nearly same or better price.

Zia did the right thing by fighting th afghan war.it was a war for pakistan.. russians attacked us across the birder as well.. they had plans to install their puppet in islamabad and walk staright to Arabian sea had their been no resistance...All ehat was done was .not to satisfy personal ego of anti Americanism. National policies are built on national interest not on what power u like and what you don't.

Your analysis is wrong... Pakistan as a state has sustainably pushed back pressure in rolling back its strategic weapons, strategic relationship with China and stance on kashmir..

It's the same how it was..and it will be like this moving forward.
 
Hi,

What a ROTTEN thought process.

Don't let the door hit you in the back.

Moment of shame and disgrace for those who were not in favor of sending troops.

It was pakistan's east india company moment to establish themselves as a power.

As a power---it would have been upto Pakistan as how to deal with Iran and Saudia economically & militarily from a position of strength---.

If you can't see that and act accordingly---you don't deserve to be a nation.



With 500K troops in GCC---we would have had this financial crisisi,

First of all thanks for identifying yourself that you were also one of those who wanted to jump into someone's else war. While completely forgetting that Iran that could play out multiple proxies so far from its home is next door neighbor to us.

I mean extreme lack of basic geography, you wanted us to trap in 3.5 front forever. India, Iran, Afghanistan, 0.5 for internal terror threats.

BTW you wanted to send 500K troops to middle east ? Who told you they needed 500K and btw what you would have back at home for any emergency ?


Lastly, now when eventually Iran & Saudi would have patched up then how would you have approached Iran or china or countries who want regional connectivity & prosperity ? With what face you would have approached them being nothing but a useless mercenary / hired gun. Jumping in other's wars is the most disrespectful thing a nation can do or even imagine.
 
Pakistan army had been doing yearly military exercises with Russians.. since 2013.
And we have been talking on various trade deals for some time.. our cooperation with Russia in military is limited as its a major ally of india.. and in resources.. its pretty far off.the transportation costs don't make their exports the best business case as there is no rail link between ce tral Asia and Pakistan.. by sea lines they have to circumvent all around....we get the same thing from nearby for nearly same or better price.

Russians wanted great relations with us. That's what was happening until last establishment's shocking move. In recent naval exercises AMAN by PN, nearly every country was invited. Russia was not invited or they did'nt come. Similarly, nearly ALL NSA's met in Moscow on Afghanistan including india but Pak lost that space too. There's definitely consequences when you remove elected govts on behalf of super power. It does not mean we had to become anti-US. GHQ could reason with them. Could have persuaded them look it would put us in a very tight spot, its only 1.5 yrs remaining in the current govt and then most likely any other govt would be formed. They couldn't persuade them that its our internal matter. How on earth americans or even our allies will respect such a country ? US, China, Russia and everyone knows what really has happened to IK govt. EVERY country's intelligence knows that Pak army proved to dumb yet again. Its time army and army supporters should accept the mistake they did. BTW, allegedly Bajwa himself accepted that "We thought he is dangerous for the country" an interview to Javed chaudhry.. regardless interview happened or not, entire country already knows it.
 
Hi,

What a ROTTEN thought process.

Don't let the door hit you in the back.

Moment of shame and disgrace for those who were not in favor of sending troops.

It was pakistan's east india company moment to establish themselves as a power.

As a power---it would have been upto Pakistan as how to deal with Iran and Saudia economically & militarily from a position of strength---.

If you can't see that and act accordingly---you don't deserve to be a nation.



With 500K troops in GCC---we would have had this financial crisisi,

Chickenhawk mentality.

These are people's sons and husbands to be used as cannon fodder.

Send your own kids first with that kind of mentality.
 
Every day one way or other GHQ's decision to overthrow an elected govt to please the americans is proving to be the worst catastrophe.

You and other PTI fanbois on this forum are so deluded to think along such lines.
The reason the GHQ was 'pleasing' America was Imran Khan's failing economic policies and perhaps an implicit threat by America-led West to either remove Imran or face trade/commerce sanctions. Pakistan was and is very dependent upon its economic relations with the West.
The bogus theory of Pakistani Army licking American boots to keep enjoying perks is just a bogus theory!! The Pakistani Army had always enjoyed perks and that's because Pakistan, due to the rivalry with India over Kashmir, is a 'security State'.
Even now, with a flick of Biden's pen, Pakistan's economy will be destroyed. No UN authorization is even needed for that. Only some rich Pakistanis and expats sittings in comfort in Western countries would want Pakistan to have Imran's vision of the 'Haqeeqi Azadi' (Real Freedom). Bottom line: Unless Pakistan adopts some type of Juche mode of economy, Pakistan can't be a beggar with choices!!!
 
Hi,

What a ROTTEN thought process.

Don't let the door hit you in the back.

Moment of shame and disgrace for those who were not in favor of sending troops.

It was pakistan's east india company moment to establish themselves as a power.

As a power---it would have been upto Pakistan as how to deal with Iran and Saudia economically & militarily from a position of strength---.

If you can't see that and act accordingly---you don't deserve to be a nation.



With 500K troops in GCC---we would have had this financial crisisi,

With all due respect how is Pakistani soldier going to perform in Yemen ? What is even the motivation ?
 
Back
Top Bottom