Laotian pick of pro-Vietnam leader highlights shift away from China

[Aepsilons]

Well, cant blame them though,any power with the capabilities ought to protect and further their interests as much as they can. Just like U.S,Russia, U.K,France etc do. The rest is secondary.
In this regard, I will give Vietnam a 8/10 in its ability to coerce some of its neighbours to toe their line and further their interests/influence. For a country their size, wealth and status they sure are good in maintaining control/influence in their region.
I WAS EVEN shocked when I found out that Vietnam controls more islands/territory in SCS/spratlys than any other country in Asia by quite a margin. THAT'S VERY IMPRESSIVE TO SAY THE LEAST. . To my Vietnamese buddies here

They have the East Asian Domination Spirit. After all , VIET NAM is a Confucian civilization , and an extension of China , actually. Confucian Dai Viet always considers themselves far superior , being that they had Confucuan core values , to the much less civilized foreign barbarians of the south; the Khmers, Siamese and even Malay societies. The southerners were considered extension of Hindu civilization, which is considered lower, in the classical militant Confucian school of diplomacy.

The Viets had every reason to exult, after all they defeated the uncivilized southern barbarians. And exterminated their threat to Vietic southern expansion.

 

[Nike]

They have the East Asian Domination Spirit. After all , VIET NAM is a Confucian civilization , and an extension of China , actually. Confucian Dai Viet always considers themselves far superior , being that they had Confucuan core values , to the much less civilized foreign barbarians of the south; the Khmers, Siamese and even Malay societies. The southerners were considered extension of Hindu civilization, which is considered lower, in the classical militant Confucian school of diplomacy.

The Viets had every reason to exult, after all they defeated the uncivilized southern barbarians. And exterminated their threat to Vietic southern expansion.

Your tone is uncalled for and quite degrading your intelligentsia a bit.

the one you called Southern barbarians, actually have a high degree of Civilization and complex hierarchy system all with their legacy in Southern Indochina Civilization until today. They lose against the Viet is simple, because they are less efficient in their military system, less comprehensive strategical foreign policy, National Error in judging their own capability and Nationhood building compared to the Viets, and not because their backward and uncivilized.

The Champ Kingdoms and City States, the Cambodian Khmer Empire, and other, are all Great Power in their heyday and become the threat not only for the Vietnam but for the Thai Ayuthaya and even Malayan Kingdom and Sultanate in the South too.

Simply you are trying praising too much for the Confucian system, although it was clear as the day those system means nothing in the face of simple brute firepower of Western Barbarian who brought the Vietnam Empire into their knees and the one who humiliated China in the past is the same type of Barbarian too.

 

[Aepsilons]

Your tone is uncalled for and quite degrading your intelligentsia a bit.

the one you called Southern barbarians, actually have a high degree of Civilization and complex hierarchy system all with their legacy in Southern Indochina Civilization until today. They lose against the Viet is simple, because they are less efficient in their military system, less comprehensive strategical foreign policy, National Error in judging their own capability and Nationhood building compared to the Viets, and not because their backward and uncivilized.

The Champ Kingdoms and City States, the Cambodian Khmer Empire, and other, are all Great Power in their heyday and become the threat not only for the Vietnam but for the Thai Ayuthaya and even Malayan Kingdom and Sultanate in the South too.

Simply you are trying praising too much for the Confucian system, although it was clear as the day those system means nothing in the face of simple brute firepower of Western Barbarian who brought the Vietnam Empire into their knees and the one who humiliated China in the past is the same type of Barbarian too.

I'm not trying to insult, but merely provided a real, honest, and direct perception of the day, Madoka. Would you have me falsify ? It was the thinking of the day. In fact any civilization that was outside the Confucian World were deemed barbarian or alien states. The Vietnamese , who were part of China as a province on one particular point in time retained the valuation system in context to the foreign civilizations outside of the Confucian World View.

Regards, please don't take it to heart.

 

[Nike]

I'm not trying to insult, but merely provided a real, honest, and direct perception of the day, Madoka. Would you have me falsify ? It was the thinking of the day. In fact any civilization that was outside the Confucian World were deemed barbarian or alien states. The Vietnamese , who were part of China as a province on one particular point in time retained the valuation system in context to the foreign civilizations outside of the Confucian World View.

Regards, please don't take it to heart.

Every Civilization Point of View is tend to differ, but to call the other as barbarians and uncivilized is deemed unnecessary and uncalled for. Remember, the European and North America in middle of 19 and beginning 20 century had all the reason to act haughty and Mighty and regarding the other Civilization as barbarian and low compared to themselves, even they found the Katana wielding, matchlock musket and spear armed soldier of Bakufu Shogunate Japan during the first visit of Matthew Perry black ships fleet is like came out from ancient communities, and they regarding the Chinese Manchus is with the same regard. And with that kind of perception they are doing far with the culmination of their destiny into White Man's burden. The thinking and policy to regard other as lowly and uncivilized is more like the acts of Colonialist and Fascist in the past.

 

[Aepsilons]

Every Civilization Point of View is tend to differ, but to call the other as barbarians and uncivilized is deemed unnecessary and uncalled for. Remember, the European and North America in middle of 19 and beginning 20 century had all the reason to act haughty and Mighty and regarding the other Civilization as barbarian and low compared to themselves, even they found the Katana wielding, matchlock musket and spear armed soldier of Bakufu Shogunate Japan during the first visit of Matthew Perry black ships fleet is like came out from ancient communities, and they regarding the Chinese Manchus is with the same regard. And with that kind of perception they are doing far with the culmination of their destiny into White Man's burden. The thinking and policy to regard other as lowly and uncivilized is more like the acts of Colonialist and Fascist in the past.

In other words , my sweet dear and passionate Madoka-chan, every civilization views their own with personal regard. The West's perceiving their superiority is no different to how Confucian civilization's cultural perception being of higher regard. Whatever the case , let us not forget that both China and Japan closed their doors and repudiated modernization at the near end of the 16th century. Have you not read into the glorious Ming Navy led by Admiral Zheng He?

Ultimately we can not see development as static , but organic and continuous. Ultimately, East Asia became a dominant force again. And to this day , It is East Asia, that is the major pillar of global economy and a major driver of global development . More so than any other .

 

[Viet]

Your tone is uncalled for and quite degrading your intelligentsia a bit.

the one you called Southern barbarians, actually have a high degree of Civilization and complex hierarchy system all with their legacy in Southern Indochina Civilization until today. They lose against the Viet is simple, because they are less efficient in their military system, less comprehensive strategical foreign policy, National Error in judging their own capability and Nationhood building compared to the Viets, and not because their backward and uncivilized.

The Champ Kingdoms and City States, the Cambodian Khmer Empire, and other, are all Great Power in their heyday and become the threat not only for the Vietnam but for the Thai Ayuthaya and even Malayan Kingdom and Sultanate in the South too.

Simply you are trying praising too much for the Confucian system, although it was clear as the day those system means nothing in the face of simple brute firepower of Western Barbarian who brought the Vietnam Empire into their knees and the one who humiliated China in the past is the same type of Barbarian too.

Don´t blame us, but the chinese. they invented the concept of barbarism

In other words , my sweet dear and passionate Madoka-chan, every civilization views their own with personal regard. The West's perceiving their superiority is no different to how Confucian civilization's cultural perception being of higher regard. Whatever the case , let us not forget that both China and Japan closed their doors and repudiated modernization at the near end of the 16th century. Have you not read into the glorious Ming Navy led by Admiral Zheng He?

Ultimately we can not see development as static , but organic and continuous. Ultimately, East Asia became a dominant force again. And to this day , It is East Asia, that is the major pillar of global economy and a major driver of global development . More so than any other .

true. talking about the old times. barbarism is from where you look at. sometimes a clash of civilisation.

for example, when British envoy Lord McCartneyto went the court of the Chinese emperor in 1793, he refused to kowtow and went down on only one knee, as he would before the British ruler. However, the Chinese emperor as the “son of heaven” (tianzi) and of China as the Central Kingdom (Zhongguo) in the world demanded ultimatively the kowtow from him as a sign of submission.

 

[Aepsilons]

Don´t blame us, but the chinese. they invented the concept of barbarism


true. talking about the old times. barbarism is from where you look at. sometimes a clash of civilisation.

for example, when British envoy Lord McCartneyto went the court of the Chinese emperor in 1793, he refused to kowtow and went down on only one knee, as he would before the British ruler. However, the Chinese emperor as the “son of heaven” (tianzi) and of China as the Central Kingdom (Zhongguo) in the world demanded ultimatively the kowtow from him as a sign of submission.

Yes, as The Chinese Tenno was ....Son of Heaven. Even Japanese envoys would kowtow to him, as sign of submission. Ultimately, China has regained its preeminence , my friend. One cannot defeat the Chinese Spirit. History proves that invaders of China, eventually will be overturned. China is unconquerable , she is th progenitor of our civilization after all. Japan exists because of China. Ever had that been. Ever shall that ever be ... For eternity.

 

[Viva_Viet]

Well, cant blame them though,any power with the capabilities ought to protect and further their interests as much as they can. Just like U.S,Russia, U.K,France etc do. The rest is secondary.
In this regard, I will give Vietnam a 8/10 in its ability to coerce some of its neighbours to toe their line and further their interests/influence. For a country their size, wealth and status they sure are good in maintaining control/influence in their region.
I WAS EVEN shocked when I found out that Vietnam controls more islands/territory in SCS/spratlys than any other country in Asia by quite a margin. THAT'S VERY IMPRESSIVE TO SAY THE LEAST. . To my Vietnamese buddies here

I hope u will not shock again if once day, VN successfully form an united Sub Mekong region.

Wt 70,000 undercover Vnese soldier in Laos and half of Laotian pplation are Vnese, then Laos is just like a second VN in the West.

TPP deal was signed, Thailand badly need VN to survive in incoming economic war, thats why Thai must allow illegal Vn work to work in Thai. It means more VNese will have Thai nationality, holding Thai passport soon

Yes, as The Chinese Tenno was ....Son of Heaven. Even Japanese envoys would kowtow to him, as sign of submission. Ultimately, China has regained its preeminence , my friend. One cannot defeat the Chinese Spirit. History proves that invaders of China, eventually will be overturned. China is unconquerable , she is th progenitor of our civilization after all. Japan exists because of China. Ever had that been. Ever shall that ever be ... For eternity.

China is unconquerable bcs she live in Desert wt sandstorm, frozen weather and barren land wt a billion hungry pple.

...no one wanna conquer Sahara desert,bro

 

[Jlaw]

I find it puzzling how a small relatively poor country like Vietnam has so much influence over its neighbors in IndoChina, even challenging Chinese influence in these countries single-handedly. impressive i must say.

China is not that influential in the modern era. Chinese culture passed down to these countries were ancient Chinese culture. Nothing I can think of from 1949 on are used by other countries other than some form of socialist system.

 

[Aepsilons]

China is unconquerable bcs she live in Desert wt sandstorm, frozen weather and barren land wt a billion hungry pple.

...no one wanna conquer Sahara desert,bro

China, as an ANCIENT civilization and the progenitor of every single Confucian society , to which Japan, Korea, Taiwan, Singapore and Viet Nam belong to BTW. As an ANCIENT civilization, is the only ancient civilization to retain independence by and large and retained the functional ordered style of government since the founding of Tianxia by their Great Emperor, Qin Shi Huang-Di.

No, my Viet friend, tho both our countries (Japan and China) may have some minor political differences and interpretation of power projection in our respective regions with China, but , ultimately, these differences can be ironed out. Matters of territoriality such as maritime domain can be solved through dialogue and concession. Ultimately local dialectic defines these minor territorial interpretations -- within the larger East Asian Cooperative Paradigm.

Regards.

Long Live Great East Asia. Ten Thousand Years.

China is not that influential in the modern era. Chinese culture passed down to these countries were ancient Chinese culture. Nothing I can think of from 1949 on are used by other countries other than some form of socialist system.

Precisely. It is that ancient cultural milieu that alien civilizations , referring to the West here, cannot and fail to understand in context to East Asian perception. There is a deeper, far more centrifugal variable that foreign anlaysts cannot truly understand that can be understood by East Asians. Ultimately the zero sum or black and white agenda of western geopolitical strategy does not take into consideration the propensity of East Asian societies to emphasize :

妥協態度, 同義詞
歩み寄り, 和解​

 

[mike2000 is back]

China is not that influential in the modern era. Chinese culture passed down to these countries were ancient Chinese culture. Nothing I can think of from 1949 on are used by other countries other than some form of socialist system.

Agree completely with you on this.
The Question here is: why is it that Modern China(I mean post 1949 communist PRC) has little to no cultural influence even in its own neighbourhood compared to it's pre historic past?

I mean even S.Korea and Japan have more soft power/cultural influence regionally and globally today than a huge country like China.

 

[Jlaw]

Agree completely with you on this.
The Question here is: why is it that Modern China(I mean post 1949 communist PRC) has little to no cultural influence even in its own neighbourhood compared to it's pre historic past?

I mean even S.Korea and Japan have more soft power/cultural influence regionally and globally today than a huge country like China.

To be fair after ww2, communist countries were deemed to be "evil" so China was pretty much alone when it came to development. Japan , SK had a lot of US support from financial to technology help after ww2. This to an extent made them what they are today.

That is going to change within the next decade.

 

[Cossack25A1]

Agree completely with you on this.
The Question here is: why is it that Modern China(I mean post 1949 communist PRC) has little to no cultural influence even in its own neighbourhood compared to it's pre historic past?

I mean even S.Korea and Japan have more soft power/cultural influence regionally and globally today than a huge country like China.

You have to remember that China underwent the so-called "Cultural Revolution" from mid-60s to mid-70s which attacked ancient Chinese culture and traditions by hardcore communists. This is probably one reason.