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Lakhvi, a free man for now

There is no good terrorists or bad terrorist argument in Pakistan's deep state, everyone with a Kalashnikov is an asset. period. Application of that asset can be domestic or foreign, and there are some setbacks with management of such assets. What people of Pakistan think is irrelevant to the deep state, it does not rely on people's sensitivities, it's not an elected body.

Totally agree.

Pakistan doesn't have a stated policy of good and bad terrorists, but it's actions virtually designate good and bad terrorists, in terms of terrorists who enjoy state patronage and those who don't, at a particular point of time.

What kind of a sick scumbag you are.
Yes we hope maoists keep killing thousands of indians and thousands of indian army officers keeping comitting suicides.

Keep dreaming.
 
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No, the freedom fighters like the Balochi's only enjoy limited localised popularity, unlike the terrorists..
 
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That's not strictly true. Simple example, Canada has government controlled media channels, the biggest being the cbc, and has numerous deals with third parties such as the ctv. Often, these channels board cast directly government policy and agendas as a part of spreading the message.

Arre bhai, the government cannot order the media to toe government line. It is against the constitution and neither Canada nor USA can do such a thing. Organise press conference, disseminate press release, give statements - YES. Order around the media - NO. And how many media channels in US are controlled by White House?

Way to bring up Godwin's law, I was hoping to avoid it. Anyway business and politics are intricately connected, even if the links are subtle.

Godwin who?

I don't know if you've been reading up on the news for the last 14 years, but Afghanistan is a major issue, especially since ISIS is spreading itself. The US doesn't want to see all its efforts wasted, and the only early to make sure is to have a friendly Pakistan. Why do you think the US was relieved when Ghani started leaning towards Pakistan?

Afghanistan is now history. That is US presence in Afghanistan is history. Iraq has ISIS not Afghanistan. Afghans have Taliban who are attacking Pakistan and US seems least bothered.

Yes, Taliban has vowed their allegiance to ISIS. But by your logic, did US media report that much or speculate on that?

You think US gives a damn about Afghanistan and Afghan people? :lol: Unfortunately politics does not work that way. US were in Afghanistan for their own interests and as long as those interests are safe US does not care what goes on or who gets killed in Afghanistan.

Pakistan can do a lot of damage to US interests in the region simply by not doing anything.

Pakistan does not have the option to do nothing. Why do you think Pakistan allowed US in the first place? The country that suffered the most because of US presence in Afghanistan is your country. There was no TTP before US invasion. Now Pakistan is the moset hated country for Taliban.

Why do you think Pakistan made such terrible decisions if they really had a choice?
 
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While for some reason Arab Al-Jazeera is giving extra coverage to it:

Pakistani Court Releases Militant Leader Tied to Mumbai Attacks on Bail

ISLAMABAD, Pakistan — In a move likely to further strain relations with India, a Pakistani court on Friday released on bail Zaki-ur-Rehman Lakhvi, a militant commander accused of orchestrating the 2008 attacks in Mumbai that killed more than 160 people.

Mr. Lakhvi and six other members of the Lashkar-e-Taiba militant group, which carried out the attack, have been on trial at the high-security Adiala jail in Rawalpindi since 2009.

The trial has been conducted in secret and been subject to halting progress, often giving the appearance of being influenced by the vagaries of wider tensions between Pakistan and India.

A court ruling in December that Mr. Lakhvi should be released on bail was opposed by the government led by Nawaz Sharif, the prime minister, which employed various legal maneuvers to keep him in detention.

But those efforts collapsed on Thursday when a Pakistani high court ordered Mr. Lakhvi’s immediate release on bail.
It was not clear where the militant leader went after he walked free from Adiala jail around 1 p.m. on Friday.
Photo
11Pakistan-web-articleLarge.jpg

Zaki-ur-Rehman Lakhvi being escorted by police officers after a court hearing in January in Islamabad, Pakistan. CreditAamir Qureshi/Agence France-Presse — Getty Images
“He is free now and in a secure place,” a senior official with Jamaat-ud-Dawa, Lashkar-e-Taiba’s charity wing, told Agence France-Presse.

The six other suspects remain under detention in the Adiala jail.

India has openly accused Mr. Lakhvi, widely considered to be the operational head of Lashkar-e-Taiba, of coordinating the November 2008 Mumbai attacks by phone from a base inside Pakistan.

The trial has become a point of contention in relations with India, which has frequently protested its slow progress. Pakistani officials say the evidence presented by India is too weak to stand up in court.

On Thursday, in response to a question on the court order at a news briefing, the spokesman of the Ministry of External Affairs in India said that the country’s “concerns on this issue have been made known to the government of Pakistan in the past.”

“The fact is that known terrorists not being effectively prosecuted constitutes a real security threat for India and the world,” said Syed Akbaruddin, the spokesman. “This also erodes the value of assurances repeatedly conveyed to us with regard to cross-border terrorism.”

Relations between the two countries have deteriorated since Prime Minister Narendra Modi, a conservative Hindu, took office last year. Along the disputed border, Pakistani and Indian troops have engaged in some of the deadliest artillery exchanges in years, killing dozens of people, many of them civilians.

Mr. Modi was openly critical when a Pakistan court first granted Mr. Lahkvi bail in December, although the authorities prevented his immediate release by invoking a colonial-era public order law.

Lashkar has a long and close association with the military’s Inter-Services Intelligence spy agency, which views the group as a useful covert tool in its decades-old rivalry with India. Its charity wing, Jamaat-ud-Dawa, has its headquarters in the eastern city of Lahore, where its leader, Hafiz Muhammad Saeed, lives openly under police protection.

Mr. Saeed moves about Pakistan freely, making speeches, fund-raising and appearing on television, in spite of a $10 million United States government reward offered for information leading to his prosecution.

In the past year, Jamaat-ud-Dawa has expanded its charitable operations in the southern province of Sindh, which was previously known as a center of religious moderation, raising fears about the failure of the country’s civilian and military leaders to check the spread of extremism.

While the military has cracked down hard on the Pakistani Taliban since gunmen killed 150 people, mostly children, at a school in Peshawar in December, it has avoided militant groups, such as Lashkar, that share the military’s strategic goals in relation to India.

On Thursday, Mr. Saeed led a rally in the capital, Islamabad, at which he urged Mr. Sharif’s government to ally with Saudi Arabia in attacking Houthi rebels in Yemen.

Salman Masood reported from Islamabad and Declan Walsh reported from London. Nida Najar contributed from New Delhi.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/11/w...t-leader-mumbai-attacks-released-on-bail.html
 
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Respect Pakistani court decisions.

Respect !! For Hight court orders

No one is disrespecting your judges. We're ripping on your prosecutors and intelligence agencies for making the case a joke.

He's your headache anyway. Hopefully he'll end up the president in your next coup.
 
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if by international pressure you mean Indian pressure, then no he wont go back in, in fact this will make sure that he stays out. If international pressure means US and Europe then I would say they dont give squat about it, they will actually use this as a tool to sell more weapons to India.[/QUOTE

What you say matters little but comments from worlds leaders much more

US, Israel slam release of Mumbai attacks mastermind Lakhvi
 
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A free Lakhvi will assist Pak self-destruct: Our strategy should be 'talk, plot, wait'


The release of 26/11 mastermind and Lashkar-e-Taiba commander Zakiur Rehman Lakhvi is not something we should keep wringing our hands in despair about. Pakistan is never going to bring him to justice for the simple reason that he is a creation of the core Pakistani state – which is not civil society, but the army and the ISI.

The right response from India should be composed and collected, and run something like this: “While we are saddened by the release of Zakiur Rehman Lakhvi, the man responsible for the killings of around 170 people in Mumbai in 2008, we acknowledge that the task of making him to pay for his crimes is currently that of Pakistan, in whose territory the 26/11 terrorist plot was hatched and master-minded. The evidence for his conviction for the crime of terrorism lies both in Pakistan and in India. If Pakistan wants to convict Lakhvi, it can find the evidence at home since the LeT, of which Lakhvi is commander, is based there. Preventive detention of Lakhvi without looking for and providing local evidence will always be subject to court scrutiny. We are thus not surprised that a court has set him free. India, for its part, will focus on bringing him to justice in India, whenever possible, as we have the evidence to nail him. India is always willing to provide the evidence to Pakistan, as we have done in the past. We will continue to talk to the government of Pakistan consistently and continuously to get justice done.”

India should accept that no court in Pakistan can keep a man in jail forever purely on the basis of preventive detention laws. And Lakhvi has spent nearly six or seven years in jail - with special privileges, including conjugal rights. This has been done largely for global optics, to show its US patron that it is hard on terror, when the reality is that Pakistan is mollycoddling the anti-India group of terrorists. Keeping Lakhvi in jail through political pressure is pointless. Ask yourself: if Lakhvi is a creation of the Pakistani state, why would the mere fact of his being in jail limit his ability to plot terror? Lakhvi can direct his next terrorist operation against India from prison, and he will even have plausible deniability on it. His alibi will be that he could not have plotted any terror since he was already in custody!

In fact, we should forget about getting the Pakistanis to nail him and instead find a way to nab him and bring him to justice in India - even if it takes five years to launch a covert operation for this. If nothing else, we should quietly leak stories suggesting that India has sent two assassination squads led by disaffected Baloch and Sindhi rebels to capture or kill him on our behalf. Let Lakhvi spend his remaining years worrying about his life instead of living it up in a fake prison.
The one thing we should not do is keep bringing up Lakhvi's bail with Pakistan - which unfortunately we have done in a kind of Pavlovian response to his release yesterday (10 April). Nothing pleases the Pakistanis more than India displaying its impotence about 26/11's chief perpetrator.

The kneejerk political reaction to the Pakistani recalcitrance would be to suspend talks - but we should never do that. We should instead give Pakistan that privilege by persisting with talks all the time and frustrating them by yielding nothing substantive in these sessions. The sole purpose of talk is optics and more talk - to show the world we are reasonable people. Consider how long China has prolonged border talks without allowing any forward movement. Sometimes talk may yield results – in the form of easier visas, or more trade, but reciprocity should be the name of the game. Talking does not mean conceding more to Pakistan than what they are willing to concede to us. Talks will succeed only when the will of the Pakistani state to support terrorism against India is sapped or defeated. But there is no sign of that at all.
So, talk we must, even if we achieve nothing. In fact, we should use the Lakhvi release to launch the next round of talks where we can focus on terrorism and present our evidence again – but with the full knowledge that nothing will come of it.

Remember Salman Bashir, former Pakistani ambassador to India? When he was foreign secretary, he had contemptuously dismissed the dossiers we presented on 26/11 as mere “literature.” Nothing thrills a Pakistani more than putting us down. So we should not give them further pleasure on this score.

The problem is we have allowed the Pakistanis to play the game their way – which is to keep lying and pretending they want a good relationship with us, and all that stands in the way is the Kashmir issue. We start believing that “this time it is different”, and we end up signing worthless agreements in Shimla, Lahore and Agra, which finally end in the dustbin. Pakistan talks only if it is in a difficult situation (9/11, 26/11), and once the immediate peril has passed, it reverts to its old jihadi strategy.

To be sure, India is not the only one making the same mistakes repeatedly. The US too has been led up the garden path by Pakistan, but the difference is we are next-door. America does not usually have to pay too high a price for its mistakes. We do. The idea that Pakistan is somehow an ally in the war on terror, and also a victim, has been repeatedly bought by foolish bureaucrats in the US state department – as evidenced in the recent decision to offer nearly $1 billion in military aid to buy attack helicopters and missiles. Are missiles going to be used against the Taliban or India?

The truth is Pakistan will not end its antagonism of India even if we offer them a deal on Kashmir. As C Christine Fair, author of a book on Pakistan’s army, said in an interview to The Times of India last year, "Pakistan is an ideological state. The Kashmir issue is not causal, it's symptomatic. If there were to be any kind of negotiation on Kashmir that gives up any inch of territory, it is not going to fix the situation."

In a more recent post, Fair notes that the Pakistanis have managed to paint themselves as victims of terror and suckered the US government to pour even more money into that terror headquarters. She notes that in return for nearly $31 billion in aid and transfers to Pakistan since the early 2000s, all the US got in return was the deaths of thousands of American, allied and Afghan soldiers and civilians due to covert Pakistani support for violent Islamic jihadis and the Taliban.

Terrorism is official state policy in Pakistan. She writes in a recent blog: “This sort of behaviour has become Pakistan’s standard operating procedure. Since 1947, Pakistan has used Islamist militants in an effort to wrest Kashmir from India. It has used Islamist militants in Afghanistan since 1974, if not earlier. Since 1990, Pakistan has introduced extremely lethal groups such as Lashkar-e-Toiba (LeT, now operating under the name of its above-ground wing Jamaat-ud-Dawa, JuD) and Jaish-e-Mohammad into the Kashmir theatre and elsewhere in India. Since 2002, according to the Global Terrorism Database at the University of Maryland, these two groups have killed more than 1,132 persons and injured more than 2,423 in about 162 attacks.”
Fair, in fact, points out that Pakistan has developed tactical nuclear weapons not to defend itself, but to deter India from any kind of short-term reprisals when the next major terror attack is unleashed by the likes of Lakhvi and Masood Azhar. Put another way, it means Pakistan’s nuclear strategy is to enable terrorism, not defend the country.

It is time we woke up to this reality. Our simple Pakistan policy should be four-fold: talk, plot, defend, wait. We should talk endlessly and use soft words to describe the possibility of solving all our mutual issues, including poverty, terrorism, etc. We should plot more covert operations and gather intelligence in Pakistan, and especially against the likes of LeT and Lakhvi. We should defend ourselves as best we can against terrorism - but it will never be foolproof. And we should wait. Give Pakistan 15-20 years and its blind hatred of India can only lead to some form of self-destruction.
As counter-terrorism expert : “From a geo-strategic perspective, as far as India is concerned, Kashmir is a holding operation, even in the absence of an effective competitive strategy. If India holds on to Kashmir for another 15 or 20 years, Pakistan will destroy itself, even without India doing anything substantial to secure this end.”

We should wait for Pakistan to self-destruct – unless, through an unexpected miracle, it corrects itself and truly wishes peace. But when 9/11 did not change Pakistani attitudes, I would not bet even one paisa on this possibility.

Let’s be clear. We have no stake in keeping Pakistan united when the Lakhvis, the LeTs, the Jaishes and the Taliban are busy rending it apart. A Lakhvi outside jail won’t be able to plot any more anti-India terror than what he could have done anyway from jail.

We will serve our own interests better if we let Pakistan implode under the weight of its own contradictions. Lakhvi will get it there faster.
 
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Release of terrorist accused of heinous crime of Mumbai terror attack (Zaki-ur Rehman Lakhvi) is deeply shocking: French President Francois Hollande.


Pakistan's international reputation is fast plummeting from Bin Laden to 26/11 to links with the 7/7 London attack.
 
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Release of terrorist accused of heinous crime of Mumbai terror attack (Zaki-ur Rehman Lakhvi) is deeply shocking: French President Francois Hollande.


Pakistan's international reputation is fast plummeting from Bin Laden to 26/11 to links with the 7/7 London attack.

According to their official line, none had any clue that OBL was hiding in their own backyard, under their very noses..

Not the establishment, nor ISI, nor army.. ;)

How many people in the world would take their official stand on terror with any seriousness after that.. :p:

A free Lakhvi will assist Pak self-destruct: Our strategy should be 'talk, plot, wait'


The release of 26/11 mastermind and Lashkar-e-Taiba commander Zakiur Rehman Lakhvi is not something we should keep wringing our hands in despair about. Pakistan is never going to bring him to justice for the simple reason that he is a creation of the core Pakistani state – which is not civil society, but the army and the ISI.

The right response from India should be composed and collected, and run something like this: “While we are saddened by the release of Zakiur Rehman Lakhvi, the man responsible for the killings of around 170 people in Mumbai in 2008, we acknowledge that the task of making him to pay for his crimes is currently that of Pakistan, in whose territory the 26/11 terrorist plot was hatched and master-minded. The evidence for his conviction for the crime of terrorism lies both in Pakistan and in India. If Pakistan wants to convict Lakhvi, it can find the evidence at home since the LeT, of which Lakhvi is commander, is based there. Preventive detention of Lakhvi without looking for and providing local evidence will always be subject to court scrutiny. We are thus not surprised that a court has set him free. India, for its part, will focus on bringing him to justice in India, whenever possible, as we have the evidence to nail him. India is always willing to provide the evidence to Pakistan, as we have done in the past. We will continue to talk to the government of Pakistan consistently and continuously to get justice done.”

India should accept that no court in Pakistan can keep a man in jail forever purely on the basis of preventive detention laws. And Lakhvi has spent nearly six or seven years in jail - with special privileges, including conjugal rights. This has been done largely for global optics, to show its US patron that it is hard on terror, when the reality is that Pakistan is mollycoddling the anti-India group of terrorists. Keeping Lakhvi in jail through political pressure is pointless. Ask yourself: if Lakhvi is a creation of the Pakistani state, why would the mere fact of his being in jail limit his ability to plot terror? Lakhvi can direct his next terrorist operation against India from prison, and he will even have plausible deniability on it. His alibi will be that he could not have plotted any terror since he was already in custody!

In fact, we should forget about getting the Pakistanis to nail him and instead find a way to nab him and bring him to justice in India - even if it takes five years to launch a covert operation for this. If nothing else, we should quietly leak stories suggesting that India has sent two assassination squads led by disaffected Baloch and Sindhi rebels to capture or kill him on our behalf. Let Lakhvi spend his remaining years worrying about his life instead of living it up in a fake prison.
The one thing we should not do is keep bringing up Lakhvi's bail with Pakistan - which unfortunately we have done in a kind of Pavlovian response to his release yesterday (10 April). Nothing pleases the Pakistanis more than India displaying its impotence about 26/11's chief perpetrator.

The kneejerk political reaction to the Pakistani recalcitrance would be to suspend talks - but we should never do that. We should instead give Pakistan that privilege by persisting with talks all the time and frustrating them by yielding nothing substantive in these sessions. The sole purpose of talk is optics and more talk - to show the world we are reasonable people. Consider how long China has prolonged border talks without allowing any forward movement. Sometimes talk may yield results – in the form of easier visas, or more trade, but reciprocity should be the name of the game. Talking does not mean conceding more to Pakistan than what they are willing to concede to us. Talks will succeed only when the will of the Pakistani state to support terrorism against India is sapped or defeated. But there is no sign of that at all.
So, talk we must, even if we achieve nothing. In fact, we should use the Lakhvi release to launch the next round of talks where we can focus on terrorism and present our evidence again – but with the full knowledge that nothing will come of it.

Remember Salman Bashir, former Pakistani ambassador to India? When he was foreign secretary, he had contemptuously dismissed the dossiers we presented on 26/11 as mere “literature.” Nothing thrills a Pakistani more than putting us down. So we should not give them further pleasure on this score.

The problem is we have allowed the Pakistanis to play the game their way – which is to keep lying and pretending they want a good relationship with us, and all that stands in the way is the Kashmir issue. We start believing that “this time it is different”, and we end up signing worthless agreements in Shimla, Lahore and Agra, which finally end in the dustbin. Pakistan talks only if it is in a difficult situation (9/11, 26/11), and once the immediate peril has passed, it reverts to its old jihadi strategy.

To be sure, India is not the only one making the same mistakes repeatedly. The US too has been led up the garden path by Pakistan, but the difference is we are next-door. America does not usually have to pay too high a price for its mistakes. We do. The idea that Pakistan is somehow an ally in the war on terror, and also a victim, has been repeatedly bought by foolish bureaucrats in the US state department – as evidenced in the recent decision to offer nearly $1 billion in military aid to buy attack helicopters and missiles. Are missiles going to be used against the Taliban or India?

The truth is Pakistan will not end its antagonism of India even if we offer them a deal on Kashmir. As C Christine Fair, author of a book on Pakistan’s army, said in an interview to The Times of India last year, "Pakistan is an ideological state. The Kashmir issue is not causal, it's symptomatic. If there were to be any kind of negotiation on Kashmir that gives up any inch of territory, it is not going to fix the situation."

In a more recent post, Fair notes that the Pakistanis have managed to paint themselves as victims of terror and suckered the US government to pour even more money into that terror headquarters. She notes that in return for nearly $31 billion in aid and transfers to Pakistan since the early 2000s, all the US got in return was the deaths of thousands of American, allied and Afghan soldiers and civilians due to covert Pakistani support for violent Islamic jihadis and the Taliban.

Terrorism is official state policy in Pakistan. She writes in a recent blog: “This sort of behaviour has become Pakistan’s standard operating procedure. Since 1947, Pakistan has used Islamist militants in an effort to wrest Kashmir from India. It has used Islamist militants in Afghanistan since 1974, if not earlier. Since 1990, Pakistan has introduced extremely lethal groups such as Lashkar-e-Toiba (LeT, now operating under the name of its above-ground wing Jamaat-ud-Dawa, JuD) and Jaish-e-Mohammad into the Kashmir theatre and elsewhere in India. Since 2002, according to the Global Terrorism Database at the University of Maryland, these two groups have killed more than 1,132 persons and injured more than 2,423 in about 162 attacks.”
Fair, in fact, points out that Pakistan has developed tactical nuclear weapons not to defend itself, but to deter India from any kind of short-term reprisals when the next major terror attack is unleashed by the likes of Lakhvi and Masood Azhar. Put another way, it means Pakistan’s nuclear strategy is to enable terrorism, not defend the country.

It is time we woke up to this reality. Our simple Pakistan policy should be four-fold: talk, plot, defend, wait. We should talk endlessly and use soft words to describe the possibility of solving all our mutual issues, including poverty, terrorism, etc. We should plot more covert operations and gather intelligence in Pakistan, and especially against the likes of LeT and Lakhvi. We should defend ourselves as best we can against terrorism - but it will never be foolproof. And we should wait. Give Pakistan 15-20 years and its blind hatred of India can only lead to some form of self-destruction.
As counter-terrorism expert : “From a geo-strategic perspective, as far as India is concerned, Kashmir is a holding operation, even in the absence of an effective competitive strategy. If India holds on to Kashmir for another 15 or 20 years, Pakistan will destroy itself, even without India doing anything substantial to secure this end.”

We should wait for Pakistan to self-destruct – unless, through an unexpected miracle, it corrects itself and truly wishes peace. But when 9/11 did not change Pakistani attitudes, I would not bet even one paisa on this possibility.

Let’s be clear. We have no stake in keeping Pakistan united when the Lakhvis, the LeTs, the Jaishes and the Taliban are busy rending it apart. A Lakhvi outside jail won’t be able to plot any more anti-India terror than what he could have done anyway from jail.

We will serve our own interests better if we let Pakistan implode under the weight of its own contradictions. Lakhvi will get it there faster.


I have similar views on dealing with Pakistan..
 
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According to their official line, none had any clue that OBL was hiding in their own backyard, under their very noses..

Not the establishment, nor ISI, nor army.. ;)

How many people in the world would take their official stand on terror with any seriousness after that.. :p:


yes and the fighters in Kashmir are freedom fighters like Ilyas Kashmiri who did the Mehran attack :rolleyes:
 
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The Americans seem to hardly care, if the lack of coverage is proof enough.

From the Pakistani view, Mumbai was a tragedy that India is trying to exploit for its own benefit.
From Pakistan's view anything that points out the culpability of Pakistanis in any terrorist activity is "exploiting for benefit".
That goes from Malala to Mumbai tragedy to London bombings to 9/11. Everything is either a conspiracy or "exploiting for benefit".


On topic though : I am glad that Lakhvi is released. I am a votary of Pakistan going back to its old ways of Islam and Jihad. I believe it is the best way to ensure Pakistan's continued downfall.
 
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