Lahore bombings planned in Afghanistan

[pakdefender]

Solution for India may be as that will end the existence of Pakistan as we know it.. your Govt and Army is not as naive as some of the members on this forum...

aaaaaaaaahahahahhahaa I fell off my chair after reading this.

 

[pakdefender]

Solution for India may be as that will end the existence of Pakistan as we know it.. your Govt and Army is not as naive as some of the members on this forum...

On a serious note , india cant do squat if Pakistan goes ahead and attacks the indian terror houses located in Afghanistan , as we have seen in the past Inida can only bluff and based on that Pakistan should just go ahead and do the needfull.

India has a lot more to loose than Pakistan and knowing their cowardice level I can say wihtout a doubt if we attack the inidan terror consulates in the open , there is very little india would do.

Such an attack will be hugely beneficial to Pakistan as it will liquidate the anti-Pakistan investment that india has been making in afghanistan for the last eight years in a matter of few hours.

I say its worth it that we go ahead and bomb the hell out of these places

 

[Hulk]

Yup show the bravery, stop fighting throgh proxies that's not like man either. We accept we are coward and cannot attack Pakistan after 26/11. Now by your own admission you had 100 26/11, come show us your bravery attack us.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Not plausible Agno.. A few billion dollars per year for the sake of assured Indian support in virtually every single global discussion will be a steal for the west.. No brainer..

Why has it not happened already then?

Quite frankly India has made clear in the past year that the West will not be getting 'assured Indian support' on a range of issues, from cutting carbon emissions to disarmament, so you overestimate Indian leverage on that count.

Even with the weapons deals, India needs western military technology as much as the West is interested in the money India will pay for those weapon systems, so you don't have sky high leverage there either.

Finally, going back to the 'few billion dollars a year more', European nations and the public, and the American public, are already tired of the war and the existing expenses, especially as some fundamental domestic programs in those nations take deep cuts. It is rather naive to suggest that Western governments and public wont care for those additional billions when they will look like they are being wasted for the sake of Indian strategic interests.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

India-Iran-Afghanistan Corridor? | Atlantic Council


Also note :

Subject to potential international sanctions on Iran and therefore potentially unreliable. The Iran-Afghan route is a longer route as well, and therefore more expensive. Secondly, Afghanistan links to Pakistan through two major routes, Chaman in Baluchistan and Khyber Pass in FATA - the latter was the focus of Taliban attacks last year. The situation now is significantly changed from then, since the Taliban have been decimated in several parts of FATA.

Russia Links Afghanistan Help To Better NATO Ties - Radio Free Europe / Radio Liberty 2010

Again, more expensive and time consuming, and not something the West will shift to unless there is a drastic deterioration of ties between NATO and Pakistan, certainly not for the sake of India.

 

[ramu]

Subject to potential international sanctions on Iran and therefore potentially unreliable. The Iran-Afghan route is a longer route as well, and therefore more expensive. Secondly, Afghanistan links to Pakistan through two major routes, Chaman in Baluchistan and Khyber Pass in FATA - the latter was the focus of Taliban attacks last year. The situation now is significantly changed from then, since the Taliban have been decimated in several parts of FATA.

Again, more expensive and time consuming, and not something the West will shift to unless there is a drastic deterioration of ties between NATO and Pakistan, certainly not for the sake of India.

we had this discussion before. Here is an article from dawn:

http://www.defence.pk/forums/strate.../50642-pakistan-strategic-rethink-needed.html

 

[karan.1970]

On a serious note , india cant do squat if Pakistan goes ahead and attacks the indian terror houses located in Afghanistan , as we have seen in the past Inida can only bluff and based on that Pakistan should just go ahead and do the needfull.

India has a lot more to loose than Pakistan and knowing their cowardice level I can say wihtout a doubt if we attack the inidan terror consulates in the open , there is very little india would do.

Such an attack will be hugely beneficial to Pakistan as it will liquidate the anti-Pakistan investment that india has been making in afghanistan for the last eight years in a matter of few hours.

I say its worth it that we go ahead and bomb the hell out of these places

You are mixing 2 things up..Azad has been commenting about invading and absorbing Afghanistan and not strikes against Indian consulates.. My response is to that..

In case India consulates are targeted covertly or overtly, I have already replied to that scenario in one of the posts to Asim. Net Net, thats easy to respond to.. Missile against a missile.. Bomb against a bomb, terror against terror...

 

[karan.1970]

Why has it not happened already then?

Quite frankly India has made clear in the past year that the West will not be getting 'assured Indian support' on a range of issues, from cutting carbon emissions to disarmament, so you overestimate Indian leverage on that count.

Even with the weapons deals, India needs western military technology as much as the West is interested in the money India will pay for those weapon systems, so you don't have sky high leverage there either.

Finally, going back to the 'few billion dollars a year more', European nations and the public, and the American public, are already tired of the war and the existing expenses, especially as some fundamental domestic programs in those nations take deep cuts. It is rather naive to suggest that Western governments and public wont care for those additional billions when they will look like they are being wasted for the sake of Indian strategic interests.

Its not happened yet, since the need hasnt arisen. I dont see any interests of India compromised in Afg at this time. Also strategically, our presense in Afg has very little postive value for us. On the flip side it has a huge negative value for Pakistan. As I said earlier, to have influence in a country, you dont need to dominate it miltarily. Diplomacy and cultural exchange is a better option and that working fairly well for us..

The whole concept of additional billions comes into play only if Pakistan keeps an impossible condition like kicking India out for its logistical support. That hasnt happened yet.. Also the 1st reaction to that kind of situation will be a call similar to what Bush Administration made to Musharraf in 2001. If that does not work, then we get to this scenario. Persoanlly I dont think it will go that far..

 

[sergente rehan]

I knew that indians were involved!!! they always play dirty games...so why don't respond them in the sasme way?!
Time has come, we must take care of these terrorists and their masters who are backing them from afghanistan and other countries. we have to cut the problem from the root.

 

[sergente rehan]

Yup show the bravery, stop fighting throgh proxies that's not like man either. We accept we are coward and cannot attack Pakistan after 26/11. Now by your own admission you had 100 26/11, come show us your bravery attack us.

just cut off with these meanless comments....we are not attacking you nor you can attack us and the most important thing it's not me, you or any other member on this forum which decides who attacks who or gives order to anyone like you are doing!
If it was so easy there was already a nuclear war between the 2 countries!!!! and if it was me who was able to give orders (for your sake it's not going to happen) probabaly india and israel were only recalled in memories....bad memories!!!

hahahaha.....just having fun so don't get warm!!!!

 

[Hulk]

just cut off with these meanless comments....we are not attacking you nor you can attack us and the most important thing it's not me, you or any other member on this forum which decides who attacks who or gives order to anyone like you are doing!
If it was so easy there was already a nuclear war between the 2 countries!!!! and if it was me who was able to give orders (for your sake it's not going to happen) probabaly india and israel were only recalled in memories....bad memories!!!

hahahaha.....just having fun so don't get warm!!!!

You did not understood a thing of what I said. I know all that you listed, I was just trying to show him mirror. He talked about bravery and I just called the bluff, Pakistan does not have guts to attack India even when things are so bad for you and you calls us coward. So prove you are not coward, by your own definition.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Its not happened yet, since the need hasnt arisen.

How can that be when India, and til recently the US, were accusing Pakistan of being hand in glove with the Afghan Taliban and India was accusing Pakistan of being complicit in attacks on Indian interests in Afghanistan?

On the flip side it has a huge negative value for Pakistan. As I said earlier, to have influence in a country, you dont need to dominate it miltarily.

India's presence alone does not have a negative value for Pakistan, it is India's perceived role in destabilizing Pakistan from Afghan soil that has a negative value. From Pakistan's perspective, an Afghanistan that respects Pakistani sovereignty and territorial integrity in accordance with internationally recognized borders is all we need.

The whole concept of additional billions comes into play only if Pakistan keeps an impossible condition like kicking India out for its logistical support. That hasnt happened yet.. Also the 1st reaction to that kind of situation will be a call similar to what Bush Administration made to Musharraf in 2001. If that does not work, then we get to this scenario. Persoanlly I dont think it will go that far..

You misunderstand 'kicking out' - 'kicking out' does not involve a complete absence of India, though commentators often like to suggest that what Pakistan wants is for a complete absence of any Indian presence whatsoever (give the PA a little more credit than entertaining implausible conditions such as those).

'Kicking out' is primarily over issues such as an expanded Indian military role in training the ANA and other Afghan security forces - which at the moment appears to be something the West is comfortable with entertaining.

Defining 'kicking out' the way you have done is IMO an attempt to set the bar for supposed Pakistani expectations unreasonably high, so that the inevitable failure to fulfill those supposed conditions appears as a strategic victory for India.

Pakistan's goal in Afghanistan going back to the rise of the Taliban and our support for it was to stabilize Afghanistan and have a GoA that respected Pakistani territorial integrity. Pakistan has paid a tremendous price in terms of refugees, drugs, weapons and crime because of the chaos and instability in Afghanistan. Western and Indian investment in Afghanistan serves to alleviate many of the conditions that cause Afghanistan to be such a headache for Pakistan.

But again, what Pakistan does not want is an Indian influenced Afghanistan that allows covert Indian activities in Pakistan from its soil, and perhaps joins in with India to conduct its own covert activities in a throw back to the days of Daud and the irredentist claims over FATA and the NWFP.

What Pakistan is likely asking the West for is assurances on that count, and those assurances (and limitations such as an increased Indian role in training the ANA and intelligence) do not come conditioned to a zero Indian presence in Afghanistan nor a halt to continued Indian investment in Afghanistan.

 

[HAWK73]

Dude I don't know what you are smoking, but it definitely can't be legal!

India collected the evidence of Mumbai attacks, presented it to pak, and pak govt itself admitted that the attacks were planned on Pak soil! Also, the world acknowledges Mumbai attacks as having originated in Pakistan.

On the other hand Pakistanis keep claiming proof of Indian hand in terrorism against Pak, but never shows the world the proof. How are we all supposed to believe it then?

Look, I just want you to think logically for a second. If Pakistan had conclusive proof of Indian involvement in terrorism, just think of the pros of presenting it to the world:

1) Kicking India out of Afghanistan - USA won't want India helping Taliban. Present them the proof and ISAF will boot India out of Afg.

2) Pakistan will get support from all over the world as a victim while India will be seen as a nation supporting the worst scum on earth. Perfect moral and diplomatic victory for pak.

3) Many in Indian public itself will be disgusted at their government, adding to Indian government's humiliation.

4) India will lose support of western nations fighting the taliban.

there are many more, but i think i made my point.

If you Indians are so sincere, then why Government of India always rejected Pakistan`s offer to a Peace Full Dialogue that both country can sit together and may fins the solution of that kine of problems?

Why India keep singing "Mumbai Attack" songs with its full instruments?

Why India ignoring that PAKISTAN SUFFERING MORE THAN INDIA WHEN WE TALK ABOUT TERROR?

Answer is very simple, , , , , The past 60 year India NEVER shown any kind of respect or good friendship to Pakistan, so why they will have now peace full talk!

Today 1 Indian Minister while her visit to US said, that No talk to Pakistan until Mumbai Attack matter is solved. . . . .

Okay, Keep it up with Mumbai Attack, Mumbai Attack, Mumbai Attack,

What a superb some one said that "Actually India wanted to do what US did against (Muslims) in Iraq and Afghanistan after 9/11. Thats what Indian wanted to do with their own poor drama that they made like "Mumbai Attack" just to force more difficulties for Pakistan as Pakistan already were in difficulties that time.

EDIT: Those Indian who made this Mumbai Attack drama may forgotten that Pakistan is not like Iraq & Afghanistan.

 

[matti]

You did not understood a thing of what I said. I know all that you listed, I was just trying to show him mirror. He talked about bravery and I just called the bluff, Pakistan does not have guts to attack India even when things are so bad for you and you calls us coward. So prove you are not coward, by your own definition.

Well neither out government nor the military establishment has ever said anything about attacking india or surgical strikes unlike your government. during the last decade you came twice to our border with the intention of attacking us, but from there moving forward requires guts that you lack. Perhaps your gov should learn to keep its mouth shut in the first place.
The day we decide to attack you, you know damn well we will do it.

 

[karan.1970]

How can that be when India, and til recently the US, were accusing Pakistan of being hand in glove with the Afghan Taliban and India was accusing Pakistan of being complicit in attacks on Indian interests in Afghanistan?

What we were discussing was the alternative if Pakistan over uses its leverage of allowing NATO supply routes and US has to take a hard call. That situation has not yet arisen and will only arise if Pakistan pushes US into a chose between India and Pakistan situation..

India's presence alone does not have a negative value for Pakistan, it is India's perceived role in destabilizing Pakistan from Afghan soil that has a negative value. From Pakistan's perspective, an Afghanistan that respects Pakistani sovereignty and territorial integrity in accordance with internationally recognized borders is all we need.

I agree. The problem is that even if India's presence is benign in nature, Pakistan will not be happy about it since it leaves that door open for India to change its stance at a later date. Pakistan does not want to be in a situation where India's agenda in Afghanistan is not within the control of Pakistan. Hence today, any precense of India in Afg has a negative value for Pakistan

You misunderstand 'kicking out' - 'kicking out' does not involve a complete absence of India, though commentators often like to suggest that what Pakistan wants is for a complete absence of any Indian presence whatsoever (give the PA a little more credit than entertaining implausible conditions such as those).

'Kicking out' is primarily over issues such as an expanded Indian military role in training the ANA and other Afghan security forces - which at the moment appears to be something the West is comfortable with entertaining.

Defining 'kicking out' the way you have done is IMO an attempt to set the bar for supposed Pakistani expectations unreasonably high, so that the inevitable failure to fulfill those supposed conditions appears as a strategic victory for India.

Pakistan's goal in Afghanistan going back to the rise of the Taliban and our support for it was to stabilize Afghanistan and have a GoA that respected Pakistani territorial integrity. Pakistan has paid a tremendous price in terms of refugees, drugs, weapons and crime because of the chaos and instability in Afghanistan. Western and Indian investment in Afghanistan serves to alleviate many of the conditions that cause Afghanistan to be such a headache for Pakistan.

But again, what Pakistan does not want is an Indian influenced Afghanistan that allows covert Indian activities in Pakistan from its soil, and perhaps joins in with India to conduct its own covert activities in a throw back to the days of Daud and the irredentist claims over FATA and the NWFP.

What Pakistan is likely asking the West for is assurances on that count, and those assurances (and limitations such as an increased Indian role in training the ANA and intelligence) do not come conditioned to a zero Indian presence in Afghanistan nor a halt to continued Indian investment in Afghanistan.

So here's my view on this. I dont believe India has any interest in destabalizing Pakistan via Afghanistan. It however certainly is building pressure through that direction to ease the pressure it gets from Pakistan in Kashmir.. And that seems to be working somewhat..I suspect this is being played out to become a bargaining chip whenever the talks resume