Ladakh: No 'Deal' was Struck with China

[Dumbledore]

China got slapped very hard.

 

[AUSTERLITZ]

I couldn't disagree more with your analysis.

This is a time of transition, and none of the paradigms adopted by the previous regime remain sacred. It is clear that the PLA, the PLA AF and the PLAN are modernising rapidly. Slower than they wished, but faster than we are. It is also known to us and to the rest of the world that the military machine that jarred the fillings in the teeth of the victorious US Army emerging from WWII, that swept through Tibet, and that used a brilliant military campaign to beat a hard-bitten professional force only twenty years away from facing down both the Wehrmacht and the Imperial Japanese Army is not to be under-rated at any time. They are not the kind of organisation that gets into ego trips and pushes the envelope, just to impress itself and its girl-friends. Whatever they do, they do for a reason, a national purpose.

The PRC sent us a message, a loud one. They don't want to drag things on, not any more. They want a resolution. Unfortunately, that window when we could have exchanged Aksai Chin for their claims on Arunachal is closed. I doubt that we will get an easy solution, as things stand. But there isn't much choice. We cannot match the Chinese, not with our logistics in the rickety condition that it is in, not with our mountain divisions bereft of a policy for mountain warfare, not with our artillery seriously obsolete, thanks to egregious political neglect by both the Congress and the gormless hyper-nationalists who did nothing except talk up a storm when they were out of power, and tried to fiddle with textbooks and organised pogroms when they were in power. We have insufficient MANPADs, insufficient fire-power at platoon and company level to stop an attacker in the mountains, insufficient stores of ammunition, supplies or food due to our sclerotic supply lines.

This is not the time to fight. We know it, the Chinese know it. They are putting on pressure, and, typically, in Chinese fashion, having put on the pressure, and conveyed clearly what the respective inventory is, they took it off. Now it's up to us. We can respond with realism and intelligence, and cut a deal, whatever the deal is, or we can react like a teenager with raging hormones, and try to fight on emotion, instead of fighting with fighting skills, proper supplies, the right equipment and with good leadership.

Why so many of us think it was a victory for India really defeats me.

With respect i disagree.china is no charitable institution...if it thought it could take what it want with force they would.They pulled back because they are not sure.Their railway logistics[the main lifeline of the invasion] is a huge problem once it comes under aerial and cruise missile attack.And its common wisdom that u need 10:1 superiority fighting an entrenched enemy in mountanous region.In 1962 they had both 10:1 superiority plus surprise.Now they had neither.

 

[Skull and Bones]

I'm still waiting in the border with a binocular, hoping for a glimpse of Chinese armor brigade.

 

[Shardul.....the lion]

Congratulations to diplomats on both sides of border. The issue de-escalated within two weeks time....

Nor India nor China can afford a costly unnecessary wars at this point of time. Atleast India has to lift 300 million people from below poverty line and China some 150 million people.

So thank god, a war (however small skirmish) has been avoided. Hail diplomacy...............

 

[Joe Shearer]

Hi, thanks for your post. I kept wondering why & what the Chinese achieved and what the actual story was.

Given our slow pace of modernization viz a viz China, wouldn't it have been better for the Chinese to wait for some other opportune time, say 5 years from now, and apply even greater economic and diplomatic pressure?

Because they want to clear their decks. If you had a strong opponent and a weak opponent, which one would you tackle first? The Chinese want to focus; somewhere Chairman Mao recommended,"Strike with both fists in one direction at once; do not strike with each fist in different directions." They want the little stuff out of the way. They are planning something, or they are planning to be confrontational about something. Somewhere else, not with us.

With respect i disagree.china is no charitable institution...if it thought it could take what it want with force they would.They pulled back because they are not sure.Their railway logistics[the main lifeline of the invasion] is a huge problem once it comes under aerial and cruise missile attack.And its common wisdom that u need 10:1 superiority fighting an entrenched enemy in mountanous region.In 1962 they had both 10:1 superiority plus surprise.Now they had neither.

Look at it this way. They don't need to do things by force at this point of time. Not when they know that we know that they can do it, if they really want to. They don't want to. They want us out of their face so that they can concentrate - on someone else.

 

[senkakudefender]

New Delhi: After the pullout by Chinese troops from Daulat beg Oldi area of Ladakh, infrastructure development programme along the Line of Actual Control is expected to be stepped up besides beefing up of the presence of Indian Army there.

Frenquency of patrolling along the LAC is also expected to be enhanced as per the new measures being contemplated by the government, sources said here today.

The Government is also planning to give final clearance to Rs 84,000 crore Army proposal for raising the Mountain Strike Corps along the northeastern borders which will include deployment of IAF assets as per Army's plans, they said.

The force has been working on capability development in the North and Northeastern sector of the country in wake of the major modernisation of military infrastructure by China.

Meanwhile, sources said there is a possibility of India re-adjusting its deployment plans in the Chumar area of Jammu and Kashmir, where Indian troops are in an advantageous positions and can look deep into the Chinese territory.

China has been demanding in the flag meetings that India should dismantle its infrastructure built there including some key forward bunkers, where Indian Army had moved in recent times. However, it is not clear as to what extent India agreed to its demands.

The Indian positions in Chumar, sources said, give India the capability to keep an eye on China's all-important Western Highway.

The Chinese have been carrying out incursions and transgressions into the Chumar area considering its location and the Indian positions there, they said.


htp://ww.defence.pk/forums/indian-defence/250613-after-chinese-pullout-india-step-up-infra-development.html#ixzz2SX0uL7yc

 

[danger007]

I am issuing warning to all Indian members, behalf of mechanized armored brigade and missile brigade... those who comment on our brigadier Hong wu....i will send co ordinate of those respected members to the brigadier.... mind it...

 

[AUSTERLITZ]

deleted 11111.

 

[thinkingcap81]

Because they want to clear their decks. If you had a strong opponent and a weak opponent, which one would you tackle first? The Chinese want to focus; somewhere Chairman Mao recommended,"Strike with both fists in one direction at once; do not strike with each fist in different directions." They want the little stuff out of the way. They are planning something, or they are planning to be confrontational about something. Somewhere else, not with us.

Then we have some breathing space, provided we do the right things. Hope we become strong enough in the next decade --- so that even with both fists the threatened blow will not be strong enough --- but i keep wondering what will be the shape of our political landscape after the next general elections.

 

[Secur]

Hehe..remember my gpa system?? Its out of 10.. I think I will get around 6...

WHAT ?

 

[AUSTERLITZ]

Because they want to clear their decks. If you had a strong opponent and a weak opponent, which one would you tackle first? The Chinese want to focus; somewhere Chairman Mao recommended,"Strike with both fists in one direction at once; do not strike with each fist in different directions." They want the little stuff out of the way. They are planning something, or they are planning to be confrontational about something. Somewhere else, not with us.

Look at it this way. They don't need to do things by force at this point of time. Not when they know that we know that they can do it, if they really want to. They don't want to. They want us out of their face so that they can concentrate - on someone else.

Do we really know that they can do it?I certainly don't.And i think the army doesn't either.The army chief has gone on record multiple times confirming it and most officers that i have met have maintained that there overall power may be superior,but they don't have the force levels necessary to achieve their target.

 

[thinkingcap81]

Do we really know that they can do it?I certainly don't.And i think the army doesn't either.The army chief has gone on record multiple times confirming it and most officers that i have met have maintained that there overall power may be superior,but they don't have the force levels necessary to achieve their target.

They may suffer far more losses but isn't it quite likely that they will be able to hold on to some bits of out land? This prospect is the actual humiliating part. Also given the feelings of Chinese superiority the IA and IAF may hold back and not deliver powerful punches whenever possible --- all the more advantageous to the PLA.

 

[thinkingcap81]

double post

 

[Ayush]

self delete

 

[Ayush]

WHAT ?

Yes we have a 25 credit and 10 cgpa system...
Grade a+ =10 gpa
A= 9gpa
B=8gpa
....E=5gpa
Suppose u have a 4 credit subject and u get d grade..

So ur gpa will be (6*4)/25 = .96
6=corresponding gpa
4=subject credit
25 stays constant...
Similarly all the individual subjects are calculated and the total is given out of 10...