Koral land-based EW system vs S-400

[NKVD]

Easy way to shoot a anti radiaton missiles.

Which Anti radiation Missile Has Range of 400 Km or Even 200 Km .Best Anti Radiation Missile in the World Has NEZ of 70-80 Km At Best

 

[Oublious]

Which Anti radiation Missile Has Range of 400 Km or Even 200 Km .Best Anti Radiation Missile in the World Has NEZ of 70-80 Km At Best

If you fly high you can detect fighters, but low fly profile you can't see it. High radiation high risk to be hit.

 

[NKVD]

If you fly high you can detect fighters, but low fly profile you can't see it. High radiation high risk to be hit.

Sir So Now I Had to Explain you how an AESA Work ?
How do you hit Target Which Will Detect you Around 500 Km-600 Km Way And Can Take out you Before You Launch your Weapon

 

[cabatli_53]

What is innovative about Koral, and how does it differ from Krasukha?

- For modern systems of this kind, and based on its appearance and the characteristics that Turkey has presented at various exhibitions, it is a digital system, which means it is self-learning. It is capable of forming a database from the signals it observes, recording them in order to later counteract them.

It would be wrong to underestimate the Turkish electronic warfare development, as truly competent professionals worked on it, but we can say for sure that Turkey does not have sufficient experience in terms of applying the novelty of this system, unlike the ground-based Krasukha electronic warfare system produced by KRET, which has been deployed in complex electronic environments and has accumulated a notable database of radar signals from various systems. In very general terms we can say that this is a similar system, but to compare one with the other would not be correct.

Can the Koral station suppress anti-aircraft missiles from the S-400 Triumph system?

- It is hardly possible, simply because the station is focused on other things. Koral is a ground-based electronic warfare system, and to work effectively against anti-aircraft missiles, even more so those of a class such as a S-400, which are designed to work in conditions when the enemy is known to be using electronic warfare, airborne antiaircraft electronic warfare capabilities are necessary, such as the Russian Rychag or Khibiny systems, the kind of which Turkey does not have. The United States has this kind of system, but they do not export them, not even to their NATO allies
http://kret.com/en/news/4096/

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https://defence.pk/threads/turkish-radar-ew-programs.77790/page-23
Has Turkey has been testing the KORAL on S-300 PMU's it had purchased from Belarus since 2013? @ turkish members

@HAKIKAT @cabatli_53

Brother,

1-Koral is the new generation land based EW/ED system of Aselsan institute. The first variant is also actively used by Turkish Army and The results taken in that system on filed, is really satisfactory. It is the reason Aselsan charged to develop more advanced variant called Koral. Koral has superior antenna unit which is produced with phased array technology and It is named as one of the rare EW system which uses such an advanced antenna unit (Aselsan spokesman). Its electromagnetic wave analyze, detection, processing and generating superior jamming tactics, including creating an imaginary threat environment that hostile radars observe as real threats (Russia dropped many bombs over PYD camps next to Turkey border) are seriously advanced.

Koral

Previous Model

2- Aselsan expertized on EW sensor and module productions and working as powerhouse for the requirements of Turkey's main platform EW self protection sensor and suit center. The facility of Aselsan for development of such modules are the one which is known as one of the biggest in Europe. Turkish institutes have a vast of experiences on such systems over many different platforms so Underestimating the capabilities of Turkish institutes regarding EW self protection/electronic attack systems is not a correct thinking. Turkey is not only producing the strategic modules but also IC's of EW systems and applying all those complex technologies for different uses. Turkey is pouring money on EW self protection and electronic attack systems since decades.

Utility/Attack Helicopter EW sensor and systems called "HEWS Özişik"

Aircraft EW sensor and systems called SPEWS

Aselsan Gergedan jammer on Kirpi MRAP

Man portable Jammer system Aselsan

 

[cabatli_53]

Ship EW self protection/Jammer system called Ares-2NC

Submarine EW self protection system called Ares-2SC

Besides, New strategic EW product projects have also been commenced. Aselsan is going to reveal many new complete products that is only being produced by a few manufacturer in World.

EW POD for Aircrafts called MEHPOD (F-16 and TF-X project integration)

Aerial stand off jammer project called "Air-SOJ"
-Two GulfStream aircraft is transfered Aselsan for modification !

Aerial IMINT/SGINT aircraft called "Multi-INT" project

Anka-Jammer MALE UAV

In additions, Aselsan is going to reveal AKKOR family land vehicles self protection system for all armored vehicles and tanks in 2017.

Akkor neutralized a RPG rocket in trials done in 2010. New variant will protect armored vehicles from all ranges of ATGM along with Kynetic energy munitions.

That's the Radar&EW Module production facility of Aselsan which is the biggest of Europe in terms of size.

That's the summary of Turkey's EW efforts and projects !

 

[cabatli_53]

but, The best strategy to kill S-400 is to send some Kamikaze-UAV along with precision strike cruise missiles. This strategy always reach the success because No one wants to sacrifice an expensive long altitude missile system just for a small target like drones feeding with radar radiations.

This graphic is prepared by Greeks in order to create awareness for kamikaze drone threat to be used against them. You know Greece is a SAM radar and missile paradise and Turkish side is the one who generates strategy to penetrate such a strong SAM network from PAC-2, PAC-3, S-300 PMU-1, Crotale, BUK, TOR, Aspide so I think This video will make sense for this thread.

 

[Quwa]

@cabatli_53 Aselsan lists the SPEWS as AN/ALQ-178 - which is a BAE Systems product. Does Aselsan have its own EW/ECM suite under development? Is HEWS developed by Aselsan, and can a version of it be legally sold to Pakistan for use on the JF-17?

 

[mustafa erkan]

We can get a simple answer about its effectivenes against to S-400 if Pakistan wants to buy it.As we know İndian will get S-400.Sure Pakistan army knows much more than us about koral.

 

[Penguin]

Sir So Now I Had to Explain you how an AESA Work ?
How do you hit Target Which Will Detect you Around 500 Km-600 Km Way And Can Take out you Before You Launch your Weapon

How difficult do you think it is to mate the guidance section of an AGM-88E AARGM (HARM) with, say, a 370+ km (230 mi) JASSM or 1000+ km (620 mi) JASSM-ER? Besides, you don't need a 600km missile, if you have a low level penetrator aircraft delivering it 'close enough'.

And then there are systems such as the IAI Harop, so-called 'loitering munitions'. It is an anti-radiation drone that can autonomously home in on radio emissions. Rather than holding a separate high-explosive warhead, the drone itself is the main munition. This SEAD-optimised UCAV is designed to loiter the battlefield and attack targets by self-destructing into them. The drone can either operate fully autonomously, using its anti-radar homing system, or it can take a man-in-the-loop mode. If a target is not engaged, the drone will return and land itself back at base. Harop has an operational range of 1,000km. It can manoeuvre in the air for up to six hours.
http://www.iai.co.il/2013/36694-46079-EN/Business_Areas_Land.aspx

Sir So Now I Had to Explain you how an AESA Work ?
How do you hit Target Which Will Detect you Around 500 Km-600 Km Way And Can Take out you Before You Launch your Weapon

See warships: in most cases they can passively detect opponents long before they can with active radar. And that usually long before the opponent is within missile range.

 

[Oublious]

Sir So Now I Had to Explain you how an AESA Work ?
How do you hit Target Which Will Detect you Around 500 Km-600 Km Way And Can Take out you Before You Launch your Weapon

It can have 10000km range radar, the thing is you can never find low flying fightres, if you are able to make a curve radar radiaton then you are the king.

 

[NKVD]

How difficult do you think it is to mate the guidance section of an AGM-88E AARGM (HARM) with, say, a 370+ km (230 mi) JASSM or 1000+ km (620 mi) JASSM-ER? Besides, you don't need a 600km missile, if you have a low level penetrator aircraft delivering it 'close enough'.

Yes Stand-off Like JASSM But Its Limited To Its Only to MTCR Members

Also JASSM is Not Fully Recognized A-to-G role Missile Yes it Has imaging infrared (I2R) seeker But It Can only Effective in terminal Stage Its Mostly Use Use GPS or INS Guidance in it Full Flight Envelope

There Various other Network of Air-Defense's Dedicated to For Stand-off also

It can have 10000km range radar, the thing is you can never find low flying fightres, if you are able to make a curve radar radiaton then you are the king.

Sir These Things are Known Since WW2 art of 'Terrain Masking'.And Yes By flying low, an aircraft can hide behind terrain features. Air defense search radars are usually placed on hill tops or in open areas, so that they have a clear line-of-sight path to the horizon. As you can imagine, the electronic processing capability has improved from WW2 when Britain first installed air defense radars, and modern radar systems can subtract out the reflections from static objects, so that a moving target stands out.

It's still useful to hide from a radar, and modern flight systems and pilots' equipment allows them to fly really low -- hugging the "nap-of-the-earth" -- but the air defense guys also have figured out that all they have to do is put their antennas atop a telescopic mast so they can look down into valleys and gullies. They also use remote antennas and repeater transmitters, for more complete coverage. Bear in mind that flying really low takes more fuel than flying higher, so that the low-level segments of a mission need to be kept short.

Flying low introduces ground clutter, which prevents detection from airborne radar without "look-down" capability. While one might assume that is not a problem with modern radars, consider how many nations still fly the MiG-21 and MiG-23, both of which lack that capability in nearly all variants. A similar problem is presented by sea-skimming flight for radar that is not designed to eliminate wave clutter.

An AESA radar is still going to see you; likewise a JSTARS is not going to be fooled.

It doesn't matter how low aircraft have to fly, there are always radar systems able to pick them up, depending on position and purpose. Also, quick-reaction low-level SAM systems can always engage aircraft however low they fly.

It is not a matter of flying low, but a matter of planning, finding gaps in radar and missile coverage and situational awareness. low-flying is only one of the techniques to penetrate a defended airspace. Intel, situational awareness and ECM/ESM are much more important.

There Dedicated Radars For Observation of Low Flying Aircraft's & UAV's
Like Thales-Raytheon Ground Master 400 series offering detection from very high to very low altitudes. It tracks a wide range of targets from highly maneuverable tactical aircraft flying below several hundred feet to the unconventional small radar crossection devices, such as UAVs or cruise missiles India Operates over 20 + Such systems

 

[-------]

@cabatli_53 Aselsan lists the SPEWS as AN/ALQ-178 - which is a BAE Systems product. Does Aselsan have its own EW/ECM suite under development? Is HEWS developed by Aselsan, and can a version of it be legally sold to Pakistan for use on the JF-17?

Turkey owns full rights to AN/ALQ178, lattest version was a co-development between Aselsan-MIKES-BAE Systems, Aselsan was the main contractor.

http://sanayilesme.ssm.gov.tr/FirmaDokumanlari/40/284/ALQ 178.pdf

 

[Oublious]

Yes Stand-off Like JASSM But Its Limited To Its Only to MTCR Members Only

Also JASSM is Not Fully Recognized A-to-G role Missile Yes it Has imaging infrared (I2R) seeker But It Can only Effective in terminal Stage Its Mostly Use Use GPS or INS Guidance in it Full Flight Envelope

There Various other Network of Air-Defense's Dedicated to For Stand-off also


Sir These Things are Known Since WW2 art of 'Terrain Masking'.And Yes By flying low, an aircraft can hide behind terrain features. Air defense search radars are usually placed on hill tops or in open areas, so that they have a clear line-of-sight path to the horizon. As you can imagine, the electronic processing capability has improved from WW2 when Britain first installed air defense radars, and modern radar systems can subtract out the reflections from static objects, so that a moving target stands out.

It's still useful to hide from a radar, and modern flight systems and pilots' equipment allows them to fly really low -- hugging the "nap-of-the-earth" -- but the air defense guys also have figured out that all they have to do is put their antennas atop a telescopic mast so they can look down into valleys and gullies. They also use remote antennas and repeater transmitters, for more complete coverage. Bear in mind that flying really low takes more fuel than flying higher, so that the low-level segments of a mission need to be kept short.

Flying low introduces ground clutter, which prevents detection from airborne radar without "look-down" capability. While one might assume that is not a problem with modern radars, consider how many nations still fly the MiG-21 and MiG-23, both of which lack that capability in nearly all variants. A similar problem is presented by sea-skimming flight for radar that is not designed to eliminate wave clutter.

An AESA radar is still going to see you; likewise a JSTARS is not going to be fooled.

It doesn't matter how low aircraft have to fly, there are always radar systems able to pick them up, depending on position and purpose. Also, quick-reaction low-level SAM systems can always engage aircraft however low they fly.

It is not a matter of flying low, but a matter of planning, finding gaps in radar and missile coverage and situational awareness. low-flying is only one of the techniques to penetrate a defended airspace. Intel, situational awareness and ECM/ESM are much more important.

There Dedicated Radars For Observation of Low Flying Aircraft's & UAF
Like Ground Master 400 series offering detection from very high to very low altitudes. It tracks a wide range of targets from highly maneuverable tactical aircraft flying below several hundred feet to the unconventional small radar crossection devices, such as UAVs or cruise missiles India Operates over 20 + Such systems

So it can penetrate earth? A radar can't see low fly fighter untile 30 to 50km that is a fact. The russians can write how great ther radar is in the end you can not see threu the earth.

 

[NKVD]

So it can penetrate earth? A radar can't see low fly fighter untile 30 to 50km that is a fact. The russians can write how great ther radar is in the end you can not see threu the earth.

Maybe Not Ground Based Radar But JSTAR or AWACS with C4ISTAR Network Envorment Can and Russians Have That in Place
Fighter Cannot Fly its Full Flight Envelope in "Terrain Masking" Its is Limited.Its will Detected In Initial stage or Later And intercepted
Everything has trade-offs and this is no exception. The downsides are flying literally into the ground-it's happened, and being low you are now in the heart of the MANPADS and AAA envelopes.or QR SAMs Dedicated For these Roles

A number of radar systems have been developed that allow detection of targets in the shadow zone. These systems are collectively known as over-the-horizon radars or OTH. is a type of radar system with the ability to detect targets at very long ranges, typically hundreds to thousands of kilometres, beyond the radar horizon, which is the distance limit for ordinary radar.

OTH Russian 29B6 Container Radar is capable to monitor airspace up to 100 km altitude and has range of 3000 km.

 

[-------]

Maybe Not Ground Based Radar But JSTAR or AWACS with C4ISTAR Network Envorment Can and Russians Have That in Place
Fighter Cannot Fly its Full Flight Envelope in "Terrain Masking" Its is Limited.Its will Detected In Initial stage or Later And intercepted
Everything has trade-offs and this is no exception. The downsides are flying literally into the ground-it's happened, and being low you are now in the heart of the MANPADS and AAA envelopes.or QR SAMs Dedicated For these Roles

A number of radar systems have been developed that allow detection of targets in the shadow zone. These systems are collectively known as over-the-horizon radars or OTH. is a type of radar system with the ability to detect targets at very long ranges, typically hundreds to thousands of kilometres, beyond the radar horizon, which is the distance limit for ordinary radar.

OTH Russian 29B6 Container Radar is capable to monitor airspace up to 100 km altitude and has range of 3000 km.

Only Passive Radars are capable of detecting beyond Horizon, and passive radars require transmission sources usually high clutter Civilian CellPhone, Radio or TV transmission. There's also ability to rain down radio signals from satellites to blanket whole areas.

Turkey is developing over the horizon passive radars.