KFX/IFX News and Development

[Indos]

The latest statement from Minister of Defense office regarding KFX/IFX renegotiation. The news is written in Kompas, a quite respected newspaper in Indonesia with large readership. Other respected Indonesian media with large readership also wrote the news about KFX/IFX with similar topic.

"Currently, the government will carry out the next stage of renegotiation related to the cost share that must be paid by the Government of Indonesia, including renegotiations related to the sustainability of the project," said Defense Minister Prabowo Subianto spokesman Dahnil Anzar Simanjuntak in his statement, Tuesday (9/7/2020).

Prabowo Bakal Renegoisasi Biaya Pengembangan Pesawat Tempur dengan Korsel Halaman all - Kompas.com

Langkah negosiasi ulang ini dilakukan setelah sebelumnya Indonesia dilaporkan mengalami penunggakan biaya proyek bersama itu. Halaman all

nasional.kompas.com

Based on his statement, South Korea is ready to reduce Indonesia financial involvement into 18.8 % while Indonesian government initially has demand to reduce its financial contribution into 15 %. Previous deal say that Indonesia has 20% stake on the program.

 

[Indos]

Koreans were not willing to give much in this project either way which is why Turkey didn't want the joint program with them.

What parts are you going to produce?

Korea rejected Turkish proposal because Turkey want to have similar shares with South Korea. About the part we are going to produce, it is stated by Indonesian Ministry of Defense official who is responsible for KFX/IFX program. All IFX will also be assembled in Indonesian Aerospace.

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Google Translate

In making the prototype of the multi-fighter aircraft, according to Head of the Ministry of Defense's Research and Development Agency Anne Kusmayati, PTDI will make wings, boosters at the bottom of the wing and tail.

Work on KF-X / IF-X fighter jets will be centered in Sacheon, South Gyeongsang Province, South Korea, the city which is the headquarters and main factory of Korea Aerospace Industries.

A total of 200 Indonesian engineers have gradually departed for Sacheon for one or two years. At first they will design the aircraft design. The engineers will also participate in designing all aircraft components.

Of the total workers of the two countries involved in the making of KF-X / IF-X, 30 percent are more from Indonesia and the majority of the rest are from South Korea. This is also the reason for making aircraft centered on Sacheon, not in Indonesia.

The proportion of more than 30 percent of Indonesian engineers involved in working on the KF-X / IF-X actually increased from the original amount of 20 percent. The addition of Indonesian workers occurred as time went by cultivation.

"It signifies that Indonesian engineers count on Korea. There is even a work package whose technology is only owned by Indonesians. He is a doctor from ITB (Bandung Institute of Technology), the only one who has inlight design capabilities. So Korea does not take Indonesia lightly, "Anne said.

Jet Tempur RI Buatan 'Sendiri' Mengangkasa 9 Tahun Lagi

Tak lebih dari 10 negara di muka bumi ini yang sungguh-sungguh bisa membuat pesawat tempur. Indonesia kini hendak masuk jajaran elite negara-negara itu.

www.cnnindonesia.com

And for IFX made for our Air Force, Indonesia (look like) has the option to put other component made by its own defense industry.

Some potential Indonesian made component beside fuselage to be used for Indonesian IFX.

1. PT InfoGlobal. Avionics

infoglobal.co.id

Infoglobal has grown to a competent company in electronic and information technology. The main focuses of the products are aviation electronic device called Avionics. Infoglobal also develops some applications software, including training and implementation services.

m.infoglobal.co.id

2 PT LEN Industry. IFF (Identification Friend or Foe)

Lini Bisnis Elektronika Pertahanan | PT Len Industri (Persero)

www.len.co.id

@Philip the Arab

 

[SgtGungHo]

Based on his statement, South Korea is ready to reduce Indonesia financial involvement into 18.8 % while Indonesian government initially has demand to reduce its financial contribution into 15 %. Previous deal say that Indonesia has 20% stake on the program.

Sigh. 1.2% reduction in payments for KF-X/IF-X project for what? I think at this point it is better for Korea to do KF-X alone and Indonesia should just buy more F-16 Viper & second hand Typoon from Austria.

 

[triangle]

Sigh. 1.2% reduction in payments for KF-X/IF-X project for what? I think at this point it is better for Korea to do KF-X alone and Indonesia should just buy more F-16 Viper & second hand Typoon from Austria.

It seems the Indonesians don't know what they want themselves. First palm oil for 5th gen fighter development and now lowered cost share. Doesn't really make for a reliable partner for any future defense collaboration.

They should aim for a force of 150 KFX and 100 TFX by 2040. Retire all the rest.

 

[Indos]

It seems the Indonesians don't know what they want themselves. First palm oil for 5th gen fighter development and now lowered cost share. Doesn't really make for a reliable partner for any future defense collaboration.

They should aim for a force of 150 KFX and 100 TFX by 2040. Retire all the rest.

Dont make generalization over this matter. The one who makes the mess is Jokowi administration who made 2015 work sharing deal with South Korea that start second phase of development, which is manufacturing phase, the administration then renegotiate the deal that is actually concluded during his early first term, nothing to do with the rest of Indonesian who are mostly supporting the program.

He is coming from the opposite political camp that accepted South Korean offer in 2009.

And no, reducing the share is the demand since the start of renegotiation and as far as I know there is no such thing like paying the development cost trought palm oil sales, actually the government offered the payment through CN 235 sales and other Indonesian military equipments (ammunition could be the other likely product for barter scheme)

And by listening to latest statement from Minister of Defense office, it is clear that the renegotiation has reached second stage and it look like only covers about cost reduction and program sustainability like what that spoke person told to the news reporters.

I think ridiculous Jokowi administration demands like paying the cost through barter has been dropped and not discussed anymore.

 

[NEKONEKO]

150 KFX and 100 F35 that would be good.

 

[UMNOPutra]

Alman Helvas
@AHelvas
20 Sep

Indonesia has to cope with a big challenge during KFX/IFX program renegotiation with ROK. The former has no enough data related to the program's whole cost. Ministry of Defense depend on Indonesian airframer data, but the SOE has no access to the whole EMD cost. Only ROK have it.

 

[SgtGungHo]

Alman Helvas
@AHelvas
20 Sep

Indonesia has to cope with a big challenge during KFX/IFX program renegotiation with ROK. The former has no enough data related to the program's whole cost. Ministry of Defense depend on Indonesian airframer data, but the SOE has no access to the whole EMD cost. Only ROK have it.

They should stop calling this as "renegotiation". This is a demand for more concessions from Indonesia with nothing in return for Korea. If the reports are true, the Korean government has to find additional funds from their Covid-19 sickened budget to cover the reduced financial contributions from Indonesia, again, nothing in return for Korea.

Indonesia is not going to honor the contract and it is the best for both countries to go separate ways.

Honestly, Indonesia is better off with F-16V as it has to cover the 2nd (1st?) longest coastline in the world.

 

[Indos]

2020-09-22 17:34

Korea, Indonesia set renegotiations for joint fighter jet development project

The first KF-X advanced multirole fighter prototype is being assembled at a Korea Aerospace Industries facility in Sacheon, South Gyeongsang Province, Sept. 3. Courtesy of Defense Acquisition Program Administration

By Jung Da-min

Korea and Indonesia are working on a new agreement for their joint fighter jet project, which has hit a snag following Indonesia's delay in paying hundreds of millions of dollars.

About 10 officials from the Defense Acquisition Program Administration (DAPA) and Korean Aerospace Industries (KAI) ― the maker of the KF-X aircraft ― left for Jakarta, Tuesday, to meet Indonesian officials on Wednesday and Thursday, according to the two organizations.

The joint fighter jet project is called the KF-X (Korean Fighter eXperimental) in Korea and the IF-X (Indonesian Fighter eXperimental) in Indonesia.

While the two sides have held four rounds of renegotiations, the latest talks come after about a year. It is also the first meeting since Indonesia's Defense Minister Prabowo Subianto took office last October. Subianto had been putting off resuming talks with the Korean government, saying he would review the overall content of the country's defense budget and weapons systems.

During this week's meeting, officials of the two countries are expected to review conditions of the joint development project to strike a deal, as Indonesia wants a reduction in how much it promised to pay the Korean government.

Indonesia initially agreed to pay 1.7 trillion won ($1.46 billion), which accounts for about 20 percent of the total 8 trillion won project budget. But it has only paid about 220 billion won. It stopped paying in late 2017, citing the country's deteriorating financial situation.

While payment is supposed to be completed by 2026, the arrears are around 500 billion won.

According to industry officials, the Indonesian side wants to reduce its contribution from the promised 20 percent to 15 percent. The proposal was raised by Indonesian President Joko Widodo when he met President Moon Jae-in during a visit to Korea in September 2018, according to the officials.

Last year, Indonesia's Coordinating Minister for Political, Legal and Security Affairs Wiranto said the country was considering offering CN-235 aircraft from the country's state plane maker PT Dirgantara Indonesia as part of its contribution, instead of cash.

Industry officials said Indonesia also wanted the Korean government to transfer more of the technology for the fighter jet development to Indonesia ― a request that Korea cannot decide alone because some of the technology is linked to the United States.

Meanwhile, the fighter development by KAI is going smoothly, with the manufacturer set to roll out the prototype in the first half of 2021. Earlier this month, KAI started assembling the prototype of what will be the country's first indigenously developed fighter jet.

Korea, Indonesia set renegotiations for joint fighter jet development project

Korea and Indonesia are working on a new agreement for their joint fighter jet project, which has hit a snag following Indonesia's delay in paying hundreds of millions of dollars.

m.koreatimes.co.kr

 

[Indos]

If the renegotiation is success, Indonesia can have potency to buy at least 150 IFX until 2040 (In the condition if the program is successful inshaAllah).

I can say those numbers will likely be 50 block 1 IFX ( as being promised by Indonesia administration), 50 block 2 IFX, and 50 block 3 IFX.

It is because there is law that prohibit defense ministry to buy foreign defense equipments that have been produced in the country.

Other factor is Indonesia economic potency and our acquisition plan (MEF) that is quite ambitious. In 2030 Indonesia economy is projected to reach 2 trillion USD, doubling current GDP figure.

Buying defense product that is produced in the country also always get support from the public and media. This will make future leader (Jokowi will finish his final term in 2024) prefer buying IFX to get political score.

Indonesian people is very nationalistic that can be seen from the fact that few Indonesian migrant worker change their citizenship, 99 % will come back.

Indonesia can set aside its budget for fighter acquisition in the period of 2020 -2024 for paying the development cost of KFX/IFX.

 

[dr.knowhow]

As of now, I would wait for the final outcome of the renegotiation in order to judge Indonesia's involvement in the program.

One thing that I could say for sure though, is that the ROKAF would not be willing to get yet another batch of CN-235s. It is quite widely known that the Indonesian CN-235s in the ROKAF fleet were suffering serious quality issues when they were first delivered, thus it was necessary to send them to KAI in order to fix the problems. Same issues again when the CG got their CN-235s as well. I'm not aware of how much the QC and overall manufacturing technology of PTDI has improved ever since, but would still say it's a matter of doubt.

 

[NEKONEKO]

Is the first prototype will use probe n drogue or flying boom for air refueling?

Where will be the location of the probe tho, in the cockpit area or a little bit at the back.

 

[Whizzack]

Is the first prototype will use probe n drogue or flying boom for air refueling?

Where will be the location of the probe tho, in the cockpit area or a little bit at the back.

It seems the probe requirement is for IFX, while KFX will use boom. So if we opt out of this project, or reduce our our participation, the probe version might not be realized... That being said, having both a probe and a boom version will mean more options for potential customers, which is a good thing.. and a probe version also allows the possibility of buddy tanking which doesn't require dedicated tankers, which means more flexibility..

 

[NEKONEKO]

It seems the probe requirement is for IFX, while KFX will use boom. So if we opt out of this project, or reduce our our participation, the probe version might not be realized... That being said, having both a probe and a boom version will mean more options for potential customers, which is a good thing.. and a probe version also allows the possibility of buddy tanking which doesn't require dedicated tankers, which means more flexibility..

I see, so the prototype for ours will have probe, will it be built in Korea and then will be shipped to Indonesia?

 

[Whizzack]

I see, so the prototype for ours will have probe, will it be built in Korea and then will be shipped to Indonesia?

I believe that was the original plan... Out of the planned 5 prototypes, 1 unit will be sent to us / PTDI for further testing and customizations to suit TNI AUs needs... AU has actually send pilots to Test Pilot Training school for this purpose... However with the ongoing renegotiations we'll have to see if the plan holds...