Kashmir - Think the Unthinkable

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Malay:

Here is one from the BBC.

Follow the link, and it will show you various maps for potential solutions at the top of the page.

BBC NEWS

 

[Spring Onion]

The situation in the early 90s was far, far worse. The likelihood of India giving up a part of their land to appease any one particular group Muslim or otherwise is pretty much nil. I do however think that subsidized repatriation offers have to be made. If anyone truly believes he or she is Pakistani on account of the "Islamic connection", then they ought to move there and it is in the government's best interest to cover a part of the moving costs so as to avoid any more social unrest that is crippling one of their states.

Pakistanis or not that is not the question. The question is that India is committing brutalities against innocent Kashmiris and even today media reproted the statement of Indian puppet Omer Abdullah who says "India is treating Kashmiris as slaves"

 

[Contrarian]

Malay:

Here is one from the BBC.

Follow the link, and it will show you various maps for potential solutions at the top of the page.

BBC NEWS

Mate, i thought you said a small sliver of Land, that the Kashmir Valley is. I agree it is quite small, but not that small so as to just give it away. I thought you meant a a few dozens of miles at the max, which would basically be a political compromise.

Secondly, if the Valley is given away, then you will find the insurgency of Punjab will start again, with Pakistan sponsoring it. Logic being, that if Kashmir could get independence, then so can we if we fight long enough. Double goes for Assam and other states. It would disintegrate India. Completely unacceptable.

Heck, if there is one man in the Parliament who tables such a resolution, i'l go outside and physically protest against the move.

 

[Neo]

Actuallly you are totally wrong.... India has seen situation worst that current one. These kind of articles written consistently, it has attracted your attention now...

India knows there are three kind of people in Kashmir 1) Who are pakistani agents and do not any thing to do with Kashmiri people, just want to grab power like Geelani 2) People who wants independent Kashmir 3) People who wants to stay with India.

Problem is Pakistan can see only Pakistani Supporters, because even a free Kashmir will not be in favour of Pakistan due to many reasons...

Keep denying the fourth group, the most crucial one in the dspute; the genuine Kashmiri who still wants to join Pakistan.

Have you ever been in IHK? I have and met many many people who welcomed me as a Pakistani visitor and shared their desire to be part of Pakistan someday.

 

[Spring Onion]

Mate, i thought you said a small sliver of Land, that the Kashmir Valley is. I agree it is quite small, but not that small so as to just give it away. I thought you meant a a few dozens of miles at the max, which would basically be a political compromise.

Secondly, if the Valley is given away, then you will find the insurgency of Punjab will start again, with Pakistan sponsoring it. Logic being, that if Kashmir could get independence, then so can we if we fight long enough. Double goes for Assam and other states. It would disintegrate India. Completely unacceptable.

Heck, if there is one man in the Parliament who tables such a resolution, i'l go outside and physically protest against the move.

Assam, Punjab, and other insurgencies or areas are part of India and hence its Indian internal problem.

BUT KASHMIR is not part of India nor it was in the past neither the Kashmiris want to be with India. Its an International dispute hence comparing Kashmir with Pubjab, Assam is not justified rather a wishful thinking

 

[Contrarian]

Its Pakistan that was fully financing and arming the Khalistani terrorists. And it was Pakistan which was going to be the first to recognize the country-Khalistan, the moment it was declared.

Today it is Kashmir, if we bow down there, it will be Punjab and the rest follows.

No can do...let Kashmir glow or burn to ashes in its own fury, it remains Indian.

 

[Neo]

Could you give maps Agno. I'd like to know EXACTLY how big is the Kashmir Valley in a map of India as a whole, so i can make my relative estimate.

Here's another detaled map with demographic statics:

Religious groups: Indian-administered Kashmir
Region Buddhist Hindu Muslim Other
Kashmir Valley - 4% 95% -
Jammu - 66% 30% 4%
Ladakh 50% - 46% 3%

Religious groups: Pakistani-administered Kashmir
Region Buddhist Hindu Muslim Other
Northern Areas - - 99% -
Azad Jammu and Kashmir - - 99% -

Most of the Muslims in the Kashmir valley, Jammu province and Azad Kashmir are Sunnis. Shias, mainly Nizari Ismailis, dominate in the Northern Areas. Ladakh also has a large number of Shias.

Muslims are a majority in the Kargil district of Ladakh while Buddhists dominate in the Leh district. There are also some Sikhs, mostly in Jammu.

Overall, according to the 1981 census, Muslims are 74.9% of the population of Kashmir, followed by Hindus (22.6%) and Buddhists (0.8%).

According to the 1941 census2, the percentage of Muslim population in the districts of Kashmir was as follows:

District - Muslim - Controlled by

Gilgit Agency 99.99% Pakistan
Gilgit Wazarat 100.00% Pakistan
Ladakh 79.00% India
Baramula 96.49% India
Muzaffarabad 92.89% Pakistan
Punch 90.97% Pakistan
Srinagar 91.55% India
Mirpur 80.41% Pakistan
Riasi 54.79% India
Udhampur 43.15% India
Jammu 39.00% India
Kathua 25.45% India
TOTAL 77.11%

The “controlled by” data in the above table is based on who controls more of the district as some districts are divided by the Line of Control. For example, more than half of the Punch district is controlled by Pakistan but the town of Punch is on the Indian side of the line of control.

1 It is not clear which census results they are using. For India, the religious data for the 2001 census has not been released yet and it seems that the 1991 census was not conducted in Indian Kashmir due to “disturbed conditions”. Pakistan’s Population Census Organization does not have data for Northern areas or Azad Jammu and Kashmir in their online 1998 census tables.

2 My source for this is a map of Jammu and Kashmir state and Gilgit agency published by Information Division, Embassy of Pakistan, Washington D.C. in 1963 (found in my school library). I have checked a few figures online and they seem to be correct. If you have a better source for the 1941 census data online, please let me know.

Source

 

[Spring Onion]

Its Pakistan that was fully financing and arming the Khalistani terrorists..

India is finencing the Terrorists of BLA in Balochistan who are carying out terrorists activities. The arms and money are being showerd on these terrorists by India.

Terrorist Baitullah is also being funded by India besides India is also providing the militants and terrorists in my province.

And it was Pakistan which was going to be the first to recognize the country-Khalistan, the moment it was declared. .

If any part of Pakistan falls India would also be the frist to recoginze it so you are not saints too so no excuse to cry when you have the same deeds.

Today it is Kashmir, if we bow down there, it will be Punjab and the rest follows.

No can do...let Kashmir glow or burn to ashes in its own fury, it remains Indian.

Kashmir is an independent state which has been occupied by India illegaly and today Indians are killing innocent people in Kashmir enmass.

 

[indiapakistanfriendship]

I am not surprised by your comments - you are after all frequenters of a defense forum (as am I) and therefore liable to be more jingoistic than most, and ardently opposed to pragmatism or compromise of any sort.

Guess what, I have found fellow Indian posters to be more pragmatic then the one I mee in the street. Just because we are interested in defense or international politics dosen't mean we are jingoistic or are liable to be jingoistic. As a matter of fact the opposite is true( Indians who don't know anything about Pakistan).

The events of the last few days will not anytime soon change Indian policy towards Kashmir

Nope you are wrong, mark my word, slowly and surely governments attidude will chage from now onwards, the nations attitude has changed, gone are the times when we thumped about Indian Kashmiris and their Indianness, from now on they are looked as disloyal citizens who need to be booted out ( believe me this is the mood in street here in the Southern most tip of India).

but they are important in that after all these years of investment by India in Kashmir, hoping to use development as a way to win Kashmiris over, it is obvious that the overwhelming sentiment remains pro-Pakistan.

Exactly, Kashmiris shot themselves in their foot. They did not anticipate the Jammu agitation and out of sudden fear did the unthinkable, raised Pakistani flags. From now on one can expect the end of free lunch. The reaction of Indian muslims, which apparently is 'I don give a damm' has only boosted this line of thought more. No more free lunc and no more Article 370...

Its not a matter of seeing 'pro-Pakistani' Kashmiris, the events of late pretty much show us that most of the valley is pro-Pakistan, or pro independence - either is fine by me, though I prefer the former.

Like I said, they must be free to move to Azad Kashmir . Period

That the facade has fallen is crucial, because India and Indians had built up this charade that Kashmri could be won over, and that the Kashmiris would accept and integrate with India, and that argument has been destroyed for now.

ood that it has fallen. From now on I wish the government withdraws special privilages and treats them like anyone else, why the hell my taxmoney should feed those traitors?

Moving on, whether the GoI scraps Kashmir's special status or not remains to be seen

It will happen, slowly but surely. Indian government has learned its lesson.

 

[indiapakistanfriendship]

India is finencing the Terrorists of BLA in Balochistan who are carying out terrorists activities. The arms and money are being showerd on these terrorists by India.

Terrorist Baitullah is also being funded by India besides India is also providing the militants and terrorists in my province.

Err why is that India is always asked to provide the proof. Hell its high time you too started to do te same.

Kashmir is an independent state which has been occupied by India illegaly

KasIndian Kashmir is an integral part of India and belongs to billion strong Indians. Period

today Indians are killing innocent people in Kashmir enmass.

Why don't you stop funding Jihadis.

 

[Spring Onion]

KasIndian Kashmir is an integral part of India and belongs to billion strong Indians. Period

PERIOD

 

[Energon]

Pakistanis or not that is not the question. The question is that India is committing brutalities against innocent Kashmiris and even today media reproted the statement of Indian puppet Omer Abdullah who says "India is treating Kashmiris as slaves"

These are generic problems that plague the entire third world, and are by no means unique to Kashmir. The brutalities in Kashmir (which are synonymous with any conflict of this sort) are nothing compared to those elsewhere. Heck there are countries out there who use interdiction to supress militants; the Government of India hasn't done that, nor are they likely to.

Nonetheless, if there are people who want to swear allegiance to another state, they ought to move there, and in that means certain Kashmiris shouldn't be treated differently.

 

[indiapakistanfriendship]

Keep denying the fourth group, the most crucial one in the dspute; the genuine Kashmiri who still wants to join Pakistan.

Have you ever been in IHK? I have and met many many people who welcomed me as a Pakistani visitor and shared their desire to be part of Pakistan someday.

The difference lies in perception. All your life in Pakistan you have been convinced that AK is an Independent entity while we Indians have viewed Kashmir as an integral state, atleat the geographic landmass. So it is not only the opinion of Kashmiris, for us they are only mere settlers in a part of India, so it s not their opinion , but our opinion that is the most important in this issue, unfortunately Pakistanis seem to ignore this simple fact .

IPF

 

[tyagi]

I think we should leave the Kashmir valley.that is best for every one .but there r lot of problems in it to.
What will be the futuer of kashmiery pandits.
safety of people how supported india .(we have seen in bangladesh after the war of 1971 many people how supported pakistan at the time of war were killed .and some of them still live in camps.)
i think the road to leh ,kargil and siachen glacier goes through Srinagar.and india will at any cost would not be ready to give these area away.
only u.p.a can agree to let the valley go.and if they do so then.bjp is going to be in power for long long time in india.which is not good for any one.
there r many point like these
and on a better note it could end the problem wich is between india and pakistan

 

[indiapakistanfriendship]

PERIOD

Jana, like I said they should be free to settle in Pakistan, atleat free to cross the border.