Kashmir Solidarity Day Conferences in Pakistan

[Goodperson]

The rally was not organized by a banned group, it simply included members of a banned group. Also, the ISI chief, once retired, is just a regular citizen of the country who is free to go to any rallies he likes. In other words, legally, there are no grounds to shut these down, just like your governments doesn't go after people who shout "Pakistan ko cheer denge" in some of your rallies.

You are joking right? all rallies organized by banned groups do have formal intelligence officers and leaders of banned groups.

I don't think that such rallies are the best way to fight for the cause of the Kashmiri people, but I also think that sometimes, it's necessary to show the alternate to negotiations. "Rivers of blood" or round-table conferences? We know which method Kashmiris and Pakistanis would prefer, the ball is in India's court.
[/b]

Which ball game they are playing by advocating violence? They want to terrorise and kill people innocent people.

That's not the right tone. We don't "own" Kashmir. When we act like Indian Occupied Kashmir "belongs" to us, we make ourselves equal to those who are bent on denying the people of that region the right of self-determination. What you should be saying it, let them choose. The regions with majority votes for India can go to India, the region with majority votes for Pakistan can be included in Pakistan. Simple as that.

Kashmir belongs to India always let these organizations to what ever they want talks or no talks.

 

[chantpapipart2]

The rally was not organized by a banned group, it simply included members of a banned group. Also, the ISI chief, once retired, is just a regular citizen of the country who is free to go to any rallies he likes. In other words, legally, there are no grounds to shut these down, just like your governments doesn't go after people who shout "Pakistan ko cheer denge" in some of your rallies.

I don't think that such rallies are the best way to fight for the cause of the Kashmiri people, but I also think that sometimes, it's necessary to show the alternate to negotiations. "Rivers of blood" or round-table conferences? We know which method Kashmiris and Pakistanis would prefer, the ball is in India's court.


That's not the right tone. We don't "own" Kashmir. When we act like Indian Occupied Kashmir "belongs" to us, we make ourselves equal to those who are bent on denying the people of that region the right of self-determination. What you should be saying it, let them choose. The regions with majority votes for India can go to India, the region with majority votes for Pakistan can be included in Pakistan. Simple as that.

PAFace, first your banned group members did address the rally. If legally there was no ground then why did your govt. ban those organizations at the first place? What kind of ban is this? There is clear support from the govt.
As far as people on our side saying "Pakistan ko cheer denge"....they don't even have 9mm pistol and they neither have the capacity nor intentions to harm Pakistan. That is not the case with JuD.
Hamid Gul is an influential man in Pakistan with links in ISI and army. Even USA knows about it. Let be honest with the situation…everyone knows who has the real power in Pakistan. Its army and ISI, That was clearly evident when Hillary Clinton spend 30 min with Zardari and 3 hrs with Gen. Kiyani.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Thanks for coming out with your true intentions..

I believe , Kashmir should be decided by Kashmiri people - and UN should control it for 100 years with both Indian , Pakistani people acess to visit Kashmir and enjoy its beauti and also come close

But ... army in Kashmir and curfews and then all the violence that must not happens it does not helps Pakistan and does not helps India , you never hear us asking for any other place in India

Some where down the line , we hope we would both have bold leaders who will sit down and say look ... this is not working

Lets have elections, if Kashmiri decide to go with pakistan fine , we will do a gradual transition 20-30 years agreed between India and Pakistan and citizens from both india and pakistan can visit kashmir as a symbol of peace -

What is happening now , the army the stuff and constant arms race is madness - and it will only end with double anhialation

This is what we lack - LEADERSHIP ...Not necessarily PPP but we need a leader like him again

some interesting views on kashmir and why people must decide the fate of kashmire not weapons

Either there should be elections or war - there should be no other outcome -

 

[chantpapipart2]

I believe , Kashmir should be decided by Kashmiri people - and UN should control it for 100 years with both Indian , Pakistani people acess to visit Kashmir and enjoy its beauti and also come close

But ... army in Kashmir and curfews and then all the violence that must not happens it does not helps Pakistan and does not helps India , you never hear us asking for any other place in India

Some where down the line , we hope we would both have bold leaders who will sit down and say look ... this is not working

Lets have elections, if Kashmiri decide to go with pakistan fine , we will do a gradual transition 20-30 years agreed between India and Pakistan and citizens from both india and pakistan can visit kashmir as a symbol of peace -

What is happening now , the army the stuff and constant arms race is madness - and it will only end with double anhialation

YouTube- Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto speaking on Kashmir Issue

This is what we lack - LEADERSHIP ...Not necessarily PPP but we need a leader like him again

I agree with you that dialogue is the only solution but there should be no place for mindless violence. As far as your solution is concerned….I appreciate your intentions but that’s not practical. India and Pakistan will never withdraw from their respective territories. At present Pak govt. is encouraging these jihadi groups by giving them permission to hold rallies. If another Mumbai like attack happen then international community will hold Pakistan responsible.

PS -Bhutto’s address at UN was inspirational from Pakistan’s POV.

 

[karan.1970]

I don't think that such rallies are the best way to fight for the cause of the Kashmiri people, but I also think that sometimes, it's necessary to show the alternate to negotiations. "Rivers of blood" or round-table conferences? We know which method Kashmiris and Pakistanis would prefer, the ball is in India's court.

This threat of rivers of blood has been oft repeated since 1987. Hasnt worked and wont work in future too. This can go on for next 50 years and nothing will change. Look at this in context. What are these folks threatning India with .. Killing a few hundred people. There are another billion plus remaining after that. And do you think that by killing people, India's public opinion will move towards giving up kashmir? Actually the opposite.. Please remember that even in East Pakistan(now Bangladesh) where the intensity of conflict and indegenous opposition was manyfold higher than what is there in Kashmir today, it took a defeat in a full scale war for Pakistan to back off.. I dont think Pakistan today has that might to attack india and wrestle away Kashmir.. So, I believe, that both India and Paksitan can keep talking till cows come home but the boundaries as they exist today will not change.

That's not the right tone. We don't "own" Kashmir. When we act like Indian Occupied Kashmir "belongs" to us, we make ourselves equal to those who are bent on denying the people of that region the right of self-determination. What you should be saying it, let them choose. The regions with majority votes for India can go to India, the region with majority votes for Pakistan can be included in Pakistan. Simple as that.

While the sentiment is nice, its not very practical. Its the question of precedent. Lets say you do this so called self determination in Kashmir.. For people who propogate the nobility of Right to self determination, why should that right then only be restricted to so called disputed areas only?? Individuals' rights dont change if they live in a disputed area..

What next, NE India, NWFP, Durand Line, Balochistan, and bunch of other areas in the whole world. Now before every one jumps down my throat with the UN resolution claims, these claims really dont have any significance today..atleast for India and even UN and most of the UN members. The UN sec gen has already admitted that the resolution is not enforcable. Major countries like US and Russia have already made comments to same effect. And how many times any neutral country of any significance has raised this in the UN in the recent history?? Zilch..

In my view, India should simply declare a one time blanket permission for anyone in the Kashmir valley wanting to join Pakistan, to leave India and go to Pakistan after selling his/her property in Kashmir at the market price to the GOI. Lets see how much of a welcome these people who talk of Kashmiri brotherhood give to these new citizens..

 

[hembo]

Forget about the headline...If this is not anti India, what is your definition of anti- India when your jehadis openly threatening “rivers of blood” in our country. If someone is talking about JIHAD, what does that mean? Is it a peaceful movement, the answer is NO.
How can govt. of Pakistan allow a banned organization to operate and hold rally in Pakistan or Pakistan controlled areas. Your formal ISI chief is special invitee and it shows PAK govt. is clearly supporting these groups.

Bro, no point in asking uncomfortable questions, ppl ducks under it.

I will repost one of my earlier post:

1. Kashmiri freedom fighters??? What's the percentage of those dead/ captured terrorists from Indian side of J&K? Don't you agree majority of them are non-Kashmiries?

2. What's your opinion on these so called freedom fighter's torture/ killing of the Kashmiri pundits (including women and children) and their ultimate expulsion from their homeland?

3. Don't you know India achieved freedom from a then global powerhouse country by way of non-violent ways?

4. Do you seriously think that these mofo terrorists will openly claim their ideological similarties with the others like AQ, TTP which only help in expedition of their eventual demise?

5. I do agree that these started initially with the single point agenda of Kashmir on the behest of then GOP's "thousand cuts to India" policy. However, the situation is a lot different now. The promotion of Jihadist sentiment and by encouraging them CHUPKE SE AUR PICHE-SE WAAD" (Attack discreetly from behind) has resulted in the monsters, who are responsible for unrest in the south Asia in particular and the world in general.

6. Before, people jump on Indian military atrocities in J&K, let me tell you that the number of Indian Army in J&K were minuscule in comparison to today before the start of armed terrorism in J&K. I do not support the Military atrocities either. I know that although some of them are being punished by the judiciary now a days, a lot of them had been swept under the carpet over the years. I myself has seen such atrocities my home state, i.e., Assam. But the point is that, if the violent insurgency was not started and supported on the behest of some evil designs (be it J&K, Khalistan movement or Assam insurgency), would these have happened, at all? If there was no attempt at armed capture of J&K in 1948, would this problem been such a pain in the *** for the two separated brothers (i.e. India and Pakistan).

Newton's third law: Every action has an equal and opposite reaction. Or, in this case, much larger and opposite reaction.

 

[weaponx]

I believe , Kashmir should be decided by Kashmiri people - and UN should control it for 100 years with both Indian , Pakistani people acess to visit Kashmir and enjoy its beauti and also come close

But ... army in Kashmir and curfews and then all the violence that must not happens it does not helps Pakistan and does not helps India , you never hear us asking for any other place in India

Some where down the line , we hope we would both have bold leaders who will sit down and say look ... this is not working

Lets have elections, if Kashmiri decide to go with pakistan fine , we will do a gradual transition 20-30 years agreed between India and Pakistan and citizens from both india and pakistan can visit kashmir as a symbol of peace -

What is happening now , the army the stuff and constant arms race is madness - and it will only end with double anhialation

YouTube- Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto speaking on Kashmir Issue

This is what we lack - LEADERSHIP ...Not necessarily PPP but we need a leader like him again

YouTube- Speeches by Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto(Part 4)
some interesting views on kashmir and why people must decide the fate of kashmire not weapons

Either there should be elections or war - there should be no other outcome -

Jamaat-ud-Dawah chief Hafiz Mohammad Saeed, accused of masterminding the Mumbai attacks, said the only solution to problems between India and Pakistan is the "liberation of Jammu and Kashmir, failing which radical groups would resort to the "option of jehad".

Addressing a gathering of about 10,000 people at the Mall Road here to mark 'Kashmir Solidarity Day', Saeed said this is the message he would convey to Indian home minister P Chidambaram if he came to Lahore during his upcoming visit to Pakistan.

"We are not against composite dialogues. I ask Chidambaram to first come to Lahore before going to Islamabad and hold talks with me. I will tell him a solid solution to the problems between India and Pakistan," said Saeed, accused by India of masterminding the Mumbai attacks.

"There is only one solution to all the problems - liberate Indian-held Kashmir. Otherwise the option of 'jehad' (holy war) is open for us," Saeed said.

He also warned India that the liberation of the erstwhile state of Hyderabad was also on the JuD's agenda.

Saeed, also the founder of the banned Lashker-e-Taiba, warned the Pakistan government not to fool the people in the name of the composite dialogue with India.

"Our rulers get happy whenever India expresses its wish for talks with Pakistan. I want to tell them that India will never talk about liberating Srinagar and Jammu and Pakistan must understand this," he said.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...eatens-jehad-over-JK-/articleshow/5540016.cms

see this statement..after that u will say Junadgadh....and so on...u guys dont care abt kashmir or anything..u just want to destroy my country...

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

That is why I suggest let democracy win , in region under UN and not let the seed of radacaliation grow into something that becomes a menace - its really long over due , no country is gaining from this madness-

What I envision is a agreement thru dialog , and election and gradual transition of power to what ever country that Kashmiri people want to reconciliate with

But Kashmir can be a open territory for both Indian/Pakistani people to vist and bring families to so our generations can see the beauti of what is Kashmir - and it will also help give econimic boost to whole region

Let it be a becon of friendship and not a point of conflict is what our leaders should attempt to create -

 

[karan.1970]

That is why I suggest let democracy win , in region under UN and not let the seed of radacaliation grow into something that becomes a menace - its really long over due , no country is gaining from this madness-

What I envision is a agreement thru dialog , and election and gradual transition of power to what ever country that Kashmiri people want to reconciliate with

But Kashmir can be a open territory for both Indian/Pakistani people to vist and bring families to so our generations can see the beauti of what is Kashmir - and it will also help give econimic boost to whole region

Let it be a becon of friendship and not a point of conflict is what our leaders should attempt to create -

Very noble sentiment and I really appreciate the thought behind it. The problem is that the suggestion goes against the constitution of India. The state of J&K does not belong only to the residents of that state. It belongs to the whole of India. So only Kashmiris can't decide on its future. Just like Maharashtrans or Biharis or Bengalis do not have the right to decide whether the state wants to be with India or not, similarly niether can the Kashmiris. Whoever doesnt want to stay with India can leave..

But I agree with your thought process on the peaceful resolution. However the thought process on that peaceful resolution can not discount the sovreignity of India

 

[Trichy]

the only Least accepted solution by GoI is to make the LoC as IB... from that GoI never get back @ any time for sure, Then its you to decide what to do...? Else no use of any talks or even terror...

 

[dabloo]

JuD vows to take Kashmir by force

Nirupama Subramanian

Organises public meeting in Islamabad, rally in Lahore

This is the first time after 26/11 attack JuD has come out openly

A string of JuD speakers praise jihad


— PHOTO: AFP

I had read somewhere that JuD is an charitable organisation.

 

[karan.1970]

JuD vows to take Kashmir by force

Nirupama Subramanian

Organises public meeting in Islamabad, rally in Lahore

This is the first time after 26/11 attack JuD has come out openly

A string of JuD speakers praise jihad


— PHOTO: AFP

I had read somewhere that JuD is an charitable organisation.

Is that a real gun in the hands of a kid?? charitable organization.. hmm...

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Is that a real gun in the hands of a kid?? charitable organization.. hmm...

Toy gun - probbly , guns are illegeal in Pakistan likely a harmless water squirting toy

lol

 

[LCA Tejas]

Toy gun - probbly , guns are illegeal in Pakistan likely a harmless water squirting toy

lol

So they are gonna attack India With that Water Squirting toy?

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Very noble sentiment and I really appreciate the thought behind it. The problem is that the suggestion goes against the constitution of India. The state of J&K does not belong only to the residents of that state. It belongs to the whole of India. So only Kashmiris can't decide on its future. Just like Maharashtrans or Biharis or Bengalis do not have the right to decide whether the state wants to be with India or not, similarly niether can the Kashmiris. Whoever doesnt want to stay with India can leave..

But I agree with your thought process on the peaceful resolution. However the thought process on that peaceful resolution can not discount the sovreignity of India

Its unfortunate that our nations are stuck in this political limbo for generations and only the british are to blame for it to happen such way ... and to make matters worse our great leaders Jinah/Gandhi all perished so quickly so once they were all gone , there was political limbo and - all rational thinking disappeared and got replaced with passionate - chants - with out logic

I am 100% sure that if Jinah and Gandhi sahib every had chance they would have solved this issue with in few months of independence - but as we know things did not turn out that way

With Musharif sahib I was very positive he can some how close this issue but unfortunately for India/Pak , we had this craziness of Talibans next door - which just resulted in such a great lost of oppourtunity to resolve the matter

From my calculations , the only other outcome is a accidental war - and the consequences of that are irreversible - for 2-3 generation as scars by Nuclear arsenel do not heal for 2-3 generation , and if any water sources are contaminated it would be end of life in 82% of subcontinent

So the responsibility that our generation holds is far greater - that this issue must be resolved in a civilized manner - with out sentimental touchy aspects - rather a simple just , solution , use the United Nation , blue force -

100% of population of both countries would probbly agree to United Nations taking over for 40-50 years.... and its a very simple solution that gives independence to Kashmirs thru elections .... while leting the region accesible to both Pakistan/Indian tourist - and families -

Its really could be as simple as that

The money saved from investments in defence on Kashmir could be used to improve aging infrastructure and living standard for people -