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So, is new media only reinforcing old stereotypes?


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No it means Pakistan supported giving Kashmiris a democratic right to choose between India and Pakistan so that we won't have to fight a war instead. Remember that the UN resolutions were triggered by a ceasefire that India initiated, after Pakistan had taken the area which forms Azad Kashmir now.

It doesn't mean Pakistan was against it... Perhaps it never came up... Perhaps India was against it? I can make up stuff too. Stick to facts that are there in black and white.

Cmon Asim, please please do not try to justify a strategic mistake of the then GoP (just like the then GoI made by taking the issue to UNSC).

Hari Singh was shouting from rooftops for independent kashmir and you want us to convince it never came up??

Now don't say 'India also never accepted it' we are not discussing here what GoI did. We are discussing what GoP did remember!

Cmon Asim, you can do better than that. Why are you so embarrassed of calling a spade a spade?
 
Cmon Asim, please please do not try to justify a strategic mistake of the then GoP (just like the then GoI made by taking the issue to UNSC).

Hari Singh was shouting from rooftops for independent kashmir and you want us to convince it never came up??

Now don't say 'India also never accepted it' we are not discussing here what GoI did. We are discussing what GoP did remember!

Cmon Asim, you can do better than that. Why are you so embarrassed of calling a spade a spade?
You mean I'm embarrassed because you tried to peddle your imaginary history without any basis in fact? Iss hamam mein sab nangay hongay, but you've been caught with your pants down on this occassion.

Please tell me when did Pakistan oppose the independence option? UNSC gave the resolutions, India and Pakistan HAVE to accept it.
 
So you mean to say such secularism can exist in turkey and Pakistan but not in India!

'Holier than thou' are we? :coffee:

seeing is beliving.

in any event Pakistan or Turkey are not birth place of islam.
No need for a nehru debate here twisting logic and facts!
 
The UNSC passes the resolution, not Pakistan.

India and Pakistan MUST obey. You think Pakistan would've itself said "Oh its okay, we'll withdraw our forces and India can keep all its forces". That was a screw up by the UNSC which they corrected in UN resolution 98.

Pakistan supported a plebiscite with India and Pakistan as an option. No where does it say Pakistan opposed Independence as an option. If that was there, Pakistan would've supported that too. But the UN resolutions are strictly for action by India and Pakistan.

Asim, here is the text of res. 98. Please show me the word 'must'.


*RESOLUTION 98 (1952) ADOPTED BY THE SECURITY COUNCIL AT ITS 611TH MEETING ON 23 DECEMBER, 1952. (DOCUMENT NO. S/2883, DATED THE 24TH DECEMBER, 1952).

THE SECURITY COUNCIL,

Recalling its resolutions, 91 (1951) of 30 March 1951, its decision of 30 April 1951 and its resolution 96 (1951) of 10 November 1951,

Further Recalling the provisions of the United Nations Commission for India and Pakistan resolutions of 13 August 1948, and 5 January 1949, which were accepted by the Governments of India and Pakistan and which provided that the question of the accession of the State of Jammu and Kashmir to India or Pakistan would be decided through the democratic method of a free and impartial plebiscite conducted under the auspices of the United Nations,

Having received the third report, dated 22 April 1952, and the fourth report, dated 16 September 1952, of the United Nations Representative for India and Pakistan;

Endorses the general principles on which the United Nations Representative has sought to bring about agreement between the Governments of India and Pakistan;

2. Notes with gratification that the United Nations Representative has reported that the Governments of India and Pakistan have accepted all but two of the paragraphs of his twelve-point proposals;

3. Notes that agreement on a plan of demilitarization of the State of Jammu and Kashmir has not been reached because the Governments of India and Pakistan have not agreed on the whole of paragraph 7 of the twelve-point proposals;

4. Urges the Governments of India and Pakistan to enter into immediate negotiations under the auspices of the United Nations Representative for India and Pakistan in order to reach agreement on the specific number of forces to remain on each side of the cease-fire line at the end of the period of demilitarization, this number to be between 3,000 and 6,000 armed forces remaining on the Pakistan side of the cease-fire line and between 12,000 and 18,000 armed forces remaining on the India side of the cease-fire line, as suggested by the United Nations Representative in his proposals of 16 July 1952, such specific numbers to be arrived at bearing in mind the principles or criteria contained in paragraph 7 of the United Nations Representative's proposal of 4 September 1952;

5. Records its gratitude to the United Nations Representative for India and Pakistan for the great efforts which he has made to achieve a settlement and requests him to continue to make his services available to the Governments of India and Pakistan to this end;

6. Requests the Governments of India and Pakistan to report to the Security Council not later than thirty days from the date of the adoption of this resolution;

7. Requests the United Nations Representative for India and Pakistan to keep the Security Council informed of any progress.

*The Security Council voted on this resolution on 23-12-1952 with the following result:-

In favor: **Brazil, **Chile, China, France, **Greece, **Netherlands, **Turkey, U.K. and U.S.A.

Against: None.

Abstaining: U.S.S.R.

** Non-Permanent Members of the Security Council,

One Member (Pakistan) did not participate in the voting.


http://www.kashmiri-cc.ca/un/sc23dec52.htm

Remember, this post was in itself a digression from the topic.

We are not discussing what GoI, GoP must do.

We are discussing 'Why did GoP got 'Independence' option removed?'
 
Read this from Time Magazine:

By January 1949, the U.N. succeeded in drawing a cease-fire line that gave a third of Kashmir to Pakistan and two thirds to India. Four times since, the U.N. has ordered that a plebiscite be held to determine the wishes of the people of Kashmir. Though Jawaharlal Nehru once vowed to "abide by the will of the Kashmiri people," India has always found reasons to avoid holding the referendum. Ex-Defense Minister Krishna Menon has bluntly explained why India opposes the plebiscite: "Because we would lose it." The popular Moslem leader, Sheik Abdullah, first supported union with India. When he changed his mind, the Indians clapped him in jail.

Asia: Ending the Suspense - TIME
 
seeing is beliving.

in any event Pakistan or Turkey are not birth place of islam.
No need for a nehru debate here twisting logic and facts!

What a stupid logic is that? You need 'birth certificate' to be secular? :devil:
 
Women in Kashmir trained in self-defence - Oneindia News

Rajouri (Jammu and Kashmir), Sep 4 (ANI): A special camp was organized by the Indian Army in Jammu and Kashmir's Rajouri District on Friday to train
women in the art of self-defence and use of firearms.

Buzz up!
The camp organized by Indian troops in the border area, aims at enabling women and girls to defend themselves against attacks by terrorists.


"All the women of the region should learn how to handle and use a gun. This is to ensure their own safety
and the safety of their loved ones from the rising extremism and militancy in the valley," said Ayesha Parveen, one of the many young trainees at the camp.

"After the training, I feel confident that even if I do not have my gun, I can disarm a militant and use his own weapon against him," she added.

Inspired by Jammu's brave heart and winner of country's second highest peace-time gallantry award, Kirti Chakra, Rukhsana Kousar, the other girls too want to get trained in self-defence and the use of weapons to strike back at the ultras.

"I am confident that I can defeat any militant who wishes to harm me or my family. My family members are also very happy that I am receiving the training as it enables me to defend myself from any untoward incident," said Sumaiyya Khanam, another volunteer trainee at the camp.

Rukhsana along with her brother, Aijaz, shot to limelight after eliminating Pakistani terrorist Abu Osama in Kalsian area of Shadara Sharief in Rajouri on September 27, 2009, with an axe and the terrorist's own AK-series rifle and won applaud and accolade from various quarters. (ANI)
 
Without participating in the digression, I'd like to point out this interesting fact from the UN SC resolution you posted again... Pakistan who was even on the UNSC at that time didn't vote.

One Member (Pakistan) did not participate in the voting.


http://www.kashmiri-cc.ca/un/sc23dec52.htm

Remember, this post was in itself a digression from the topic.

We are not discussing what GoI, GoP must do.

We are discussing 'Why did GoP got 'Independence' option removed?'

The fundamentals of your question are wrong... I'm asking When did GoP got 'Independence' option removed?

If they never did, then your entire Raam kahani gets shelved.
 
Lets act in the interest of Kashmiri's and see what they want.

If by 'interest' you mean independence/plebiscite/accession to Pakistan then my dear T-Faz, Pakistan didn't act in 'interest' of kashmiris in 1947 (read: That is the whole point of this thread)

If by 'interest' you mean peace and real interest then the only only solution plausible in current geo-political scenario is posted by me in the 'future of kashmir' thread. You may refer to my posts on the last few pages.
 
*The Security Council voted on this resolution on 23-12-1952 with the following result:-

In favor: **Brazil, **Chile, China, France, **Greece, **Netherlands, **Turkey, U.K. and U.S.A.

Against: None.

Abstaining: U.S.S.R.

** Non-Permanent Members of the Security Council,

One Member (Pakistan) did not participate in the voting.


http://www.kashmiri-cc.ca/un/sc23dec52.htm

Remember, this post was in itself a digression from the topic.

We are not discussing what GoI, GoP must do.

We are discussing 'Why did GoP got 'Independence' option removed?'

I dont see India voting here too..
Pakistan might have done it for reasons of impartiality and India with its own reservations. Sides squared now..please move along! :pakistan:
 
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