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So does Azad Kashmir has an army? Embassy in any country? If Pakistan views Kashmir as a separate country, how come neither of these entities are there ?

Pakistan views Kashmir to be a part of Pakistan. pure and simple.

Umm no we dont..
They have a seprate flag, their own para-millitary forces, seprate identity cards and passports. If a Kashmiri wants to come and establish business in mainland Pakistan it will be treated under forigen investment rules. Mainland Pakistanis are not permitted to buy and sell property in Azad kashmir though this rule if often over run due to intermingled family releations. Kashmiris have intermingled family releations with people of Punjab and KhyberPuktunkwa and a deep cultural integration dating thousands of years. So how they can fall under indian influence which has a hindi culture??

Tattoo it in your blind eyes

648px-Flag_of_Azad_Kashmir.svg.png


Flag of Azad Kashmir.
 
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India did not destabilize anything.The people of the state were against the decision of joining Pakistan from the very beginning .It is very natural that there were riots and protests.At the later stages even the Muslims in Junagarh wanted to join India and not Pakistan.

So India should honour the same wishes of Kashmiris on equality basis?? Why do these politics of duplicity obessed with self-benefit only??? Moral police ambushed with own principles?? Isn't there a rebellion going on in Kashmir since 63 years too??? A rebellion in indian favour honoured and against india crushed?? Akhand bharat mentality??


WHY DID THE GOVERNMENT OF PAKISTAN INSIST, AND AS A RESULT SUCCEED, ON REMOVING 'INDEPENDENCE' AS AN OPTION FOR THE KASHMIRIS??? I'M SURE YOU ARE AWARE THAT IN CASE A REFERENDUM TAKES PLACE, 'INDIA' AND 'PAKISTAN' ARE THE ONLY OPTIONS AVAILABLE TO THEM AND THIS WAS DONE ON GOP's INSISTENCE. GOP AND MANY PAKISTANIS HERE ON PDF CHAMPION THE CAUSE OF THE KASHMIRIS' FREE WILL. MY DEAR AM, WHERE DID THIS CONCERN FOR THEIR FREE WILL GO THEN?

Because the Indian are not willing to recocnize Kashmiri right to independence and insisit there wont be breakaway of Kashmir and had been using this clause to withold referendum. The GoP insist to honour referendum on basis of equal choice while Indian persist "anything but independence for Kashmir". You do realize there cant be a referendum in Pakistani Kashmir with a three choices versus two in IOK. So overall, the removal of third choice is due to akhand bharat stubborness and less to do with GoP.

GoP favours an autonomous Kashmir under Pakistani protection or a sovergien independent Kashmir. Kashmiris have deep rooted ties among families of Punjab and KP and accession of Kashmir to India will spell a security nightmare for us.
 
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India is as much secular as Israel or Vatican. A country which is birth place of hinduism reverting to secularism is dream at best. Think of saudis can be turned secular??



Bangladesh has a right to choose whatever political system they want be is secular or islamic. The fact is that with a country of 90% muslim population the majority influences will flow and it will remain an islamic country unless it gets kicked out of OIC.

When hinduism was born, present day Bangladesh, India and Pakistan were all part of the same land (i'm calling it a 'land' in deference to many pakistanis here who don't accept that 'India' existed before the British/Mughals came). And hence, your logic can be very very conveniently extended to the conclusion that neither can Pakistan nor Bangladesh ever be secular.

Proceeding forward,

Having said that, I must now draw your attention to the fact that the Quaid-e-Azam always wanted Pakistan to be secular and since I've proved above (taking cue from your very own logic) that Pakistan can't be secular ever as neither can India (on which basis you state that Indian secularism is a farce), so would you, my dear friend, accept that Quaid-e-Azam was wrong in his conviction to make Pakistan a secular country?

Secondly, my dear somebozo, would you accept that by accepting secularism, Bangladesh, which seperated from British India as a part of Pakistan, has in fact validated the conviction of the Quaid?

If, my dear somebozo, you have a difficulty in understanding some very long sentences and nebulous language that I've used above, I'd rephrase myself as follows,

Bangladesh has , as we all are aware, accepted secularism and Pakistan has not. So does Bangladesh (whose example you yourself cited in your 'logic' above) negate the theory of the Quaid or does Pakistan?

Awaiting your reply,

Regards,

Peace! :wave:
 
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Why did they ánnexe' GB?

Why did they donate parts of Kashmir to China?

The bleeding hearts club is a hardcore political military industrial complex, not a humanitarian charity. Don't take their daily protestations seriously.

This thread is for one question and one question only. You are free to post your question elsewhere in accordance with your wishes and the forum rules.

I, as the thread starter, request you and everybody else, to stick to the question which I asked.

Thank you for your co-operation,

Regards,

peace! :wave:
 
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I support every motive of secular Pakistan and strongly aggree with principles of Quaid. We dont have to become Atheist republic for the sake of adopting secularism. We will remain Islamic regardless of our political system. Think of Turkey as Secular Islamic state. Islamic socio-polical system also advocates secularity. Please aviod narrow minded nit-picking and please proceed.
 
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I support every motive of secular Pakistan and strongly aggree with principles of Quaid. We dont have to become Atheist republic for the sake of adopting secularism. We will remain Islamic regardless of our political system. Think of Turkey as Secular Islamic state. Islamic socio-polical system also advocates secularity. Please aviod narrow minded nit-picking and please proceed.

Is Turkey a Islamic state? I think they even don't allow religious symbols in schools, uni etc. Western version of secularism is different than that of what we follow in India. Mainly because India haven't experienced Church versus State.

We have seen riots too many, that's why all the talk of tolerance and people don't generally want to meddle in others religion.
 
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In any case I think there need to be a two-part referrendum

Round 1) Pakistan vs India

Round 2) Winner of Round 1 vs Independence. This will tell you EXACTLY what the Kashmiris want.

---------- Post added at 01:51 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:50 PM ----------

It wasn't acceptable then, why so?
Then? When? Link/source of information?
 
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In any case I think there need to be a two-part referrendum

Round 1) Pakistan vs India

Round 2) Winner of Round 1 vs Independence. This will tell you EXACTLY what the Kashmiris want.

---------- Post added at 01:51 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:50 PM ----------


Then? When? Link/source of information?

Why wasn't this explicitly stated by GoP in 1947?

Am I to construe that the stance of GoP vis a vis independence has changed?
 
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Independence is acceptable to Pakistanis, only India rejects it.

The Plebiscite Front was a political party in the Indian state of Jammu and Kashmir that called for a "popular plebiscite" to decide if the state should remain part of India, join Pakistan or become independent

Now part of the Council for J&K. Self determination is a right for ALL.
 
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In any case I think there need to be a two-part referrendum

Round 1) Pakistan vs India

Round 2) Winner of Round 1 vs Independence. This will tell you EXACTLY what the Kashmiris want.

Agreed,

On one condition though, Lalloo Yadav will be responsible for conducting the referendum :yahoo:

Needless to say am kiddin........ :D

Forget any kinda referendum, not gonna happen:tdown:
 
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RESOLUTION 47 (1948) ON THE INDIA-PAKISTAN QUESTION SUBMITTED JOINTLY BY THE REPRESENTATIVES FOR BELGIUM, CANADA, CHINA, COLUMBIA, THE UNITED KINGDOM AND UNITED STATES OF AMERICA AND ADOPTED BY THE SECURITY COUNCIL AT ITS 286TH MEETING HELD ON 21 APRIL, 1948. (DOCUMENT NO. S/726, DATED THE 21ST APRIL, 1948).

THE SECURITY COUNCIL

Having considered the complaint of the Government of India concerning the dispute over the State of Jammu and Kashmir, having heard the representative of India in support of that complaint and the reply and counter complaints of the representative of Pakistan,

Being strongly of opinion that the early restoration of peace and order in Jammu and Kashmir in essential and that India and Pakistan should do their utmost to bring about cessation of all fighting,

Noting with satisfaction that both India and Pakistan desire that the question of the accession of Jammu and Kashmir to India or Pakistan would be decided through the democratic method of a free and impartial plebiscite,

Considering that the continuation of the dispute is likely to endanger international peace and security,

Reaffirms its resolution 38 (1948) of 17 January 1948;

Resolves that the membership of the Commission established by its resolution 39 (1948) of 20 January 1948, shall be increased to five and shall include, in addition to the membership mentioned in that Resolution, representatives of ....and ..., and that if the membership of the commission has not been completed within ten days from the date of the adoption of this resolution the President of the Council may designate such other Member or Members of the United Nations as are required to complete the membership of five;

Instructs the Commission to proceed at once to the Indian sub-continent and there place its good offices and mediation at the disposal of the Governments of India and Pakistan with a view to facilitating the taking of the necessary measures, both with respect to the restoration peace and order and to the holding of a plebiscite by the two Governments, acting in co-operation with one another and with the Commission, and further instructs the Commission to keep the Council informed of the action taken under the resolution; and, to this end,

Recommends to the Governments of India and Pakistan the following measures as those which in the opinion of the Council and appropriate to bring about a cessation of the fighting and to create proper conditions for a free and impartial plebiscite to decide whether the State of Jammu and Kashmir is to accede to India or Pakistan.


A - RESTORATION OF PEACE AND ORDER

1. The Government of Pakistan should undertake to use its best endeavors:

1. To secure the withdrawal from the State of Jammu and Kashmir of tribesmen and Pakistani nationals not normally resident therein who have entered the State for the purposes of fighting, and to prevent any intrusion into the State of such elements and any furnishing of material aid to those fighting in the State;

2. To make known to all concerned that the measures indicated in this and the following paragraphs provide full freedom to all subjects of the State, regardless of creed, caste, or party, to express their views and to vote on the question of the accession of the State, and that therefore they should co-operate in the maintenance of peace and order.

2. The Government of India should:
1. When it is established to the satisfaction of the Commission set up in accordance with the Council's Resolution 39 (1948) that the tribesmen are withdrawing and that arrangements for the cessation of the fighting have become effective, put into operation in consultation with the Commission a plan for withdrawing their own forces from Jammu and Kashmir and reducing them progressively to the minimum strength required for the support of the civil power in the maintenance of law and order;

2. Make known that the withdrawal is taking place in stages and announce the completion of each stage;

3. When the Indian forces shall have been reduced to the minimum strength mentioned in (a) above, arrange in consultation with the Commission for the stationing of the remaining forces to be carried out in accordance with the following principles:
1. That the presence of troops should not afford any intimidation or appearance of intimidation to the inhabitants of the State;

2. That as small a number as possible should be retained in forward areas;

3. That any reserve of troops which may be included in the total strength should be located within their present base area.

3. The Government of India should agree that until such time as the plebiscite administration referred to below finds it necessary to exercise the powers of direction and supervision over the State forces and policy provided for in paragraph 8, they will be held in areas to be agreed upon with the Plebiscite Administrator.

4. After the plan referred to in paragraph 2(a) above has been put into operation, personnel recruited locally in each district should so far as possible be utilized for the reestablishment and maintenance of law and order with due regard to protection of minorities, subject to such additional requirements as may be specified by the Plebiscite Administration referred to in paragraph 7.

5. If these local forces should be found to be inadequate, the Commission, subject to the agreement of both the Government of India and the Government of Pakistan, should arrange for the use of such forces of either Dominion as it deems effective for the purpose of pacification.

B - PLEBISCITE

6. The Government of India should undertake to ensure that the Government of the State invite the major political groups to designate responsible representatives to share equitably and fully in the conduct of the administration at the ministerial level, while the plebiscite is being prepared and carried out.

7. The Government of India should undertake that there will be established in Jammu and Kashmir a Plebiscite Administration to hold a plebiscite as soon as possible on the question of the accession of the State to India or Pakistan.

8. The Government of India should undertake that there will be delegated by the State to the Plebiscite Administration such powers as the latter considers necessary for holding a fair and impartial plebiscite including, for that purpose only, the direction and supervision of the State forces and police.

9. The Government of India should at the request of the Plebiscite Administration, make available from the Indian forces such assistance as the Plebiscite Administration may require for the performance of its functions.

10.
1. The Government of India should agree that a nominee of the Secretary-General of the United Nations will be appointed to be the Plebiscite Administrator.

2. The Plebiscite Administrator, acting as an officer of the State of Jammu and Kashmir, should have authority to nominate the assistants and other subordinates and to draft regulations governing the Plebiscite. Such nominees should be formally appointed and such draft regulations should be formally promulgated by the State of Jammu and Kashmir.

3. The Government of India should undertake that the Government of Jammu and Kashmir will appoint fully qualified persons nominated by the Plebiscite Administrator to act as special magistrates within the State judicial system to hear cases which in the opinion of the Plebiscite Administrator have a serious bearing on the preparation and the conduct of a free and impartial plebiscite.

4. The terms of service of the Administrator should form the subject of a separate negotiation between the Secretary-General of the United Nations and the Government of India. The Administrator should fix the terms of service for his assistants and subordinates.

5. The Administrator should have the right to communicate directly, with the Government of the State and with the Commission of the Security Council and, through the Commission, with the Security Council, with the Governments of India and Pakistan and with their representatives with the Commission. It would be his duty to bring to the notice of any or all of the foregoing (as he in his discretion may decide) any circumstances arising which may tend, in his opinion, to interfere with the freedom of the Plebiscite.

11. The Government of India should undertake to prevent and to give full support to the Administrator and his staff in preventing any threat, coercion or intimidation, bribery or other undue influence on the voters in the plebiscite, and the government of India should publicly announce and should cause the Government of the State to announce this undertaking as an international obligation binding on all public authorities and officials in Jammu and Kashmir.

12. The Government of India should themselves and through the government of the State declare and make known that all subjects of the state of Jammu and Kashmir, regardless of creed, caste or party, will be safe and free in expressing their views and in voting on the question of the accession of the State and that there will be freedom of the Press, speech and assembly and freedom of travel in the State, including freedom of lawful entry and exit.

13. The Government of India should use and should ensure that the Government of the State also use their best endeavor to effect the withdrawal from the State of all Indian nationals other than those who are normally resident therein or who on or since l5th August 1947 have entered it for a lawful purpose.

14. The Government of India should ensure that the Government of the State releases all political prisoners and take all possible steps so that:
1. all citizens of the State who have left it on account of disturbances are invited and are free to return to their homes and to exercise their rights as such citizens;
2. there is no victimization;
3. minorities in all parts of the State are accorded adequate protection.

15. The Commission of the Security Council should at the end of the plebiscite certify to the Council whether the plebiscite has or has not been really free and impartial.

C-GENERAL PROVISIONS

16. The Governments of India and Pakistan should each be invited to nominate a representative to be attached to the Commission for such assistance as it may require in the performance of its task.

17. The Commission should establish in Jammu and Kashmir such observers as it may require of any of the proceedings in pursuance of the measures indicated in the foregoing paragraphs.

18. The Security Council Commission should carry out the tasks assigned to it herein.


* The Security Council voted on this Resolution on 20-1-1948 with the following result:-

In favor: **Argentina, **Canada. China, France, **Syria, U. K, and U. S. A

Against: None

Abstaining: **Belgium, **Columbia, **Ukrainian S. S. R. . and U. S. S. R.

** Non-permanent Members of the Security Council.



http://www.kashmiri-cc.ca/un/sc21apr48.htm
 
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