Kashmir | News & Discussions.

[GentlemanObserver]

This, then, is the reality of Kashmir. Like those young men out on the streets of Srinagar in their tens of thousands, I am not sure what I want. I do not think an independent Kashmir is a feasible or realisable idea, but short of that, India should be willing to go to any extent possible. But like those young men, I do know what I don’t want. When CRPF jawans acting in ‘self defence’ end up killing a nine-year-old boy on the street, I don’t want it said that they are doing it in my name. I don’t want it said that they are doing it to safeguard an Idea of India. An inclusiveness enforced by outsiders at gunpoint is not much of an idea.

Beautifully poignant

 

[Speaker]

An inclusiveness enforced by outsiders at gunpoint is not much of an idea.

Would have been valid if universally true. But there are many Kashmiris (including Muslims) who feel they are a part of India. In a diverse country where regions have rich history and culture, the Kashmiri identity is overrated. The CRPF and Army excesses have to be addressed, but not at the cost of unchecked mob violence where anyone who dares to raise a voice against the separatists gets attacked or killed.

 

[Skeptic]

Would have been valid if universally true. But there are many Kashmiris (including Muslims) who feel they are a part of India. In a diverse country where regions have rich history and culture, the Kashmiri identity is overrated. The CRPF and Army excesses have to be addressed, but not at the cost of unchecked mob violence where anyone who dares to raise a voice against the separatists gets attacked or killed.

Therein lies the crux of the matter. Outsiders here not just refers to Indian nationals but for people who have not lived the same life as them. For my understanding it is not used in a strict goegraphic sense but in context of sharing the same background. That is why the detailed mention of Punjab affair becomes important.

 

[peacekeeper]

In a diverse country where regions have rich history and culture, the Kashmiri identity is overrated.

But when we raise these questions, we hold them to far higher standards than we have imposed on ourselves.

This is the crux of the problem.
We should reterospect and alleviate their grievance
It is not just matter of economic package but things which directly afects thems

 

[Skeptic]

This is the crux of the problem.
We should reterospect and alleviate their grievance
It is not just matter of economic package but things which directly afects thems

It is. For me atleast just because we can maintain the status quo is an insufficient reason to continue doing so. This voilence has to stop not just for the sake of any singular or multiple identities but for the sake of humanity.

First step as mentioned is Listeing and second understanding. Not much sense can be made when the face explaining the situation is red with anger and froth spitting out. If we can not make sense of what they do want better start working of what they defenitely do not want. I am not sure how many of us would be overtly pleased while living under curfew for weeks at streach. For holding out ID cards at demand while kneeling down in an open field.

Trust has to begin somewhere and then only it can be expected to be reciprocated. The bigger question of how to begin this cycle is currently beyond me but people wiser and in authoratitive positions have to come up with the answer if we aspire to continue to hold dear this idea of inclusiveness.

 

[somebozo]

The idea of India while remarkable will fail due to its inherent nature of dual identity. One regional and one national. Eventually people will be forced to choose sides when higher developed states called the lower ones liability and the lowers ones retaliate with accusations of encroachment.

 

[Peshwa]

Yeh who cares if Indian invader army has a flawed map and who cares if Indian govt can blackmail Google to show Azad Kashmir as Indian part lolzz.

The reality otherway round.

As far as Northern Pakistan is concerned that is Northern Pakistan and there is NO other word on it. We have 5 provinces

As AM pointed out....Google says Northern Area is as disputed as Indian Administered Kashmir....

pakistan - Google Maps

Dont pop the champagne bottle just yet....

Its a good middle ground to appease both sides.....

 

[anurag_singh]

The idea of India while remarkable will fail due to its inherent nature of dual identity. One regional and one national. Eventually people will be forced to choose sides when higher developed states called the lower ones liability and the lowers ones retaliate with accusations of encroachment.

Two nation theory failed(remember Bangladesh) but still discussing ideology of other's country. on your comment my reply :-
.

 

[Skeptic]

The idea of India while remarkable will fail due to its inherent nature of dual identity. One regional and one national. Eventually people will be forced to choose sides when higher developed states called the lower ones liability and the lowers ones retaliate with accusations of encroachment.

The case is not for multiple identities but for inclusiveness of various regional and religious identities into a singular one. Disparity of financial and natural resources has been and will stay a reality - but the idea of India will emerge supreme - We saw the regional card being played in the Maharashtra state election - which was unanimously defeated by the local populaton.

Two nation theory failed(remember Bangladesh) but still discussing ideology of other's country. on your comment my reply :-
.

Anurag, we can do better than replying with smilies and bringing up unrelated issues.

 

[somebozo]

Two nation theory failed(remember Bangladesh) but still discussing ideology of other's country. on your comment my reply :-
.

Pakistan estimated the split of Bangladesh by 1975 due to rapidly changing political climate. Secondly Bangladesh could never integrate in Pakistan due to geographical differences. West Pakistan is at cross roads of Asia and middle east hence great trade routes for economic opportunities. East Pakistan only had neighboring India which meant they had to suffer due to West Pakistan standoff with India. It was only opportunist India which tried turn a tide in its favor hoping by stirring pro-indian terrorist forces to secure territory in east-pak to ease its "chicken neck" demographics for defending against China. Big fail of Indian planning that as they could not annex anything in east-Pakistan.

Secondly Pakistan war planners considered east-Pakistan a satellite state and the doctrine called for defense of west for the defense of east. So it was a cowardly act to begin it. No respectable nation would brag a feat like that.

As much as the two nation theory failed, the Bangladeshis still feel themselves closer to Pakistan than India sparing the temporary AL bozo. This is called connection of Muslim brotherhood.

 

[Skeptic]

Pakistan estimated the split of Bangladesh by 1975 due to rapidly changing political climate. Secondly Bangladesh could never integrate in Pakistan due to geographical differences. West Pakistan is at cross roads of Asia and middle east hence great trade routes for economic opportunities. East Pakistan only had neighboring India which meant they had to suffer due to West Pakistan standoff with India. It was only opportunist India which tried turn a tide in its favor hoping by stirring pro-indian terrorist forces to secure territory in east-pak to ease its "chicken neck" demographics for defending against China. Big fail of Indian planning that as they could not annex anything in east-Pakistan.

Secondly Pakistan war planners considered east-Pakistan a satellite state and the doctrine called for defense of west for the defense of east. So it was a cowardly act to begin it. No respectable nation would brag a feat like that.

Again irrelevant and has been discussed in several other threads.

 

[anurag_singh]

The case is not for multiple identities but for inclusiveness of various regional and religious identities into a singular one. Disparity of financial and natural resources has been and will stay a reality - but the idea of India will emerge supreme - We saw the regional card being played in the Maharashtra state election - which was unanimously defeated by the local populaton.

There is a need of uniform development in all parts of India that will make people of all regions equal stakeholder in India's progress. With this approach we can remove discontent of neglected people.

@sombozo again lol for your paranoia and muslim brotherhood card. You know the reality.

 

[Skeptic]

There is a need of uniform development in all parts of India that will make people of all regions equal stakeholder in India's progress. With this approach we can remove discontent of neglected people.

This is a conceptually ideal situation but practically almost impossible or rather improbable. All parts of India can not have same scale and levels of development. Even in developed countried this discrepancy does exist.

Some areas have ports and access to sea and some are land-locked, some areas have better natural resources and some have developed financial infrastructre. What we can aspire for a minimal level of development across region and beyond that these factors can come into play.

Moreover - The issue risen here is not just for development and infrastructure but something much more basic than that - A sense of belonging.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

1971 Shimla accord (which Pakistan agreed to) usurps the UN plebiscite mandate, so there is no point bringing up an obsolete UN resolution.

This is an often regurgitate argument that has just as often been debunked. Read the Shimla accord:

(i) That the principles and purposes of the Charter of the United Nations shall govern the relations between the two countries.

(ii) That the two countries are resolved to settle their differences by peaceful means through bilateral negotiations or by any other peaceful means mutually agreed upon between them. Pending the final settlement of any of the problems between the two countries, neither side shall unilaterally alter the situation and both shall prevent the organisation, assistance or encouragement of any acts detrimental to the maintenance of peace and harmonious relations.

See the first highlighted point and then read the second highlighted point in the context of India's acceptance and commitment to the UNSC resolutions. No where does Simla rule out the UNSC resolutions or the resolution of disputes through the mediation of third parties. Were that the case, then India would not still be abiding by the IWT and recognizing the WB's arbitration in water disputes with Pakistan.

That is your POV and you are entitled to it. I am sure annexation of Junagarh has been discussed multiple times in this forum before, bringing that in here is only going to confound the discussion.

It is not a POV, those are facts and historical events that played out. Junagadh is very relevant since it was a Princely State that acceded to Pakistan before J&K acceded to India, and was invaded and occupied by India before the Tribes marched into Kashmir, and India justified the annexation of the State by unilaterally holding a plebiscite in Junagadh and claiming legitimacy.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Google is clever I tell you. It simply doesn't comment on the whole issue and when you cry it appeases you for business and when we do the same, it appeases us too.

Google is merely following the internationally and UN accepted status of J&K as disputed, everywhere accept in India.