Kashmir | News & Discussions.

[Peshwa]

by the way, a similar phenomenon did take place in hyderabad deccan when it officially became part of hindustan (through force)....many people did migrate to what was already Pakistan simply because of their political views, and the repression they would face if they remained behind

Right....and a similar phenomenon did take place in '47 when Pakistan tried to take Kashmir by force against the wishes of the Kashmiri king....retained P-O-K which is where Kashmiris with affinity for Pakistan reside....

Difference is, Pakistan
a) was unsuccessful in securing entire Kashmir....not our fault for your gross understimation of our ability
b) Did not come to the rescue of the Hyderabadi King....again...not our fault....a decision overriden by Mountbatten....

Point is....both India and Pakistan have acted hypocritically.....India in the case of Hyderabad....and Pakistan with Kashmir....
If we came out on top, should we feel sorry about it?

Pakistan has a part of Kashmir....all those from the Indian side who want to be Pakistani....can move there....call it a second partition....
we all have had to make sacrifices wrt to our ancestral homes etc.....Kashmiris are no special....They will have to learn to live with it....

But lets be honest....."To the victor belong the spoils"..
Not like we see Pakistan returning areas/points captured during Kargil back to India now do we?...Not like any actions taken by Pakistan wrt Kashmir have been done so with the active desicion of all Kashmiris.....

 

[Peshwa]

I have a great idea! Hold a plebicite, let the people decide their fates; and then peace may prevail!

WoW! Sounds like a great ''trade'' to me

Better Idea.....Second Partion based on current LOC status quo....

No one compromises....Kashmiris wanting to move to Pakistan can still experience Kashmir in "Azadi"....

The Indians stay in India....

"WoW! Sounds like a great ''trade'' to me"

 

[karan.1970]

No, I am basing it off feedback left off by your fellow comrades on this forum; as well as elements in your establishment (even Krishna if I'm not mistaken) who believe that ISI is sending youth to Kashmir to throw stones and protest.

About members on the forum.. by that definition Pakistan wants a militarty dictatorship as a lot of members on this forum have been asking for it

And there is difference between ISI encouraging such incidents by including militant elements within the protesting crowds vs the complete crowd consisting of ISI sponsored people (which you were suggesting)

 

[SONOFAGUN]

Honestly........I do not see this happening at all. We have seen worst during Punjab insurgency and have come out stronger and victorious.....If Punjab problem can be resolved (ask any older gerenation about the situation in Punjab than), there is no way any Indian politician or bureaucrat will ever let Kashmir go any other way....infact to my knowledge, there are palns in offing to get Pakistani Occupied Kashmir back in the fold....

Within a decade you will find many Indian Muslim taking control of country's administartion, defence, intelligence and even becoming powerful PRIME MINISTERS...........even if hypothetically speaking Hindus want Kashmir severed, Indian Muslims will not let this happen at all.

 

[anurag_singh]

As for the future of Kashmir? I personally liked Bezerk's Scenario 7: The Chenab formula.



I think it's the best way to go because the idea of a free and independent Kashmir sounds quite impossible. Works best if Pakistan gets the Muslim majority parts and India keeps the rest. Then free immigration be opened so that the minority religions in Pakistani Kashmir can move out into India and Muslims from Indian Kashmir can move into Pakistan.

==========================

At OP, I think it'll be quite a few generations from today. But it'll happen someday.

If you want transfer of population they why not complete transfer?
why not between whole India and Pak?

 

[Justin Joseph]

How pathetic???? These are not murders but in every part of world police forced to use force and fire when mob go out of control.

In Kashmir some puppet goes inside crowd and fire at police and destroy ambulances carrying patients or burning schools or rail way station or thrashing innocent civilians or police.

In Pakistan police also do it, so what's wrong or extra ordinary when police in India do it.


Police kill BNP worker during Quetta protest

Daily Times - Leading News Resource of Pakistan


Its common practice as the firing is the last resort to save people and property.

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

About members on the forum.. by that definition Pakistan wants a militarty dictatorship as a lot of members on this forum have been asking for it

my eyes lit up when i read this.....

lets do a poll and then see. I can guarantee you that majority here would not want that. Whether they are civilians, or servicemen/women

And there is difference between ISI encouraging such incidents by including militant elements within the protesting crowds

nope. Purely Kashmiri phenomenon. Nothing to do with ISI

vs the complete crowd consisting of ISI sponsored people (which you were suggesting)

nope again; your comrades were suggesting it

 

[karan.1970]

If you want transfer of population they why not complete transfer?
why not between whole India and Pak?

Because that is not acceptable to Indians. Indian Muslims are as much Indian as you and I. Dont get lured into a religious conflict here. The issue is India and Pakistan. Not Hindu and Muslim

Pakistanis can try and play the muslim card till cows come home. Not going to work here..

 

[karan.1970]

my eyes lit up when i read this.....

lets do a poll and then see. I can guarantee you that majority here would not want that. Whether they are civilians, or servicemen/women

Do a similar poll here on "labelling all Kashmiri youth terrorists" and I can gaurantee you that 90% wont label ALL Kashmiri youth as terrorists. Just like you have a minority wanting Kayani to overthrow the govt, you have a minority with this view here..

nope. Purely Kashmiri phenomenon. Nothing to do with ISI

You are entitled to your view, no matter how untrue (or misguided) and I am to mine..

nope again; your comrades were suggesting it

Where?

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

Do a similar poll here on "labelling all Kashmiri youth terrorists" and I can gaurantee you that 90% wont label ALL Kashmiri youth as terrorists. Just like you have a minority wanting Kayani to overthrow the govt, you have a minority with this view here..

moot point; Gen. Kayani saab himself has no such wishes or ambitions.

as for Kashmiri youth; when frustration and anger build up, then of course one day the ''kettle'' will burst from excess pressure

You are entitled to your view, no matter how untrue (or misguided) and I am to mine..

why is my view misguided? I am right until you can prove me wrong. You could shoot back and say the same to me; except even you have politicians rubbishing any rumours that ISI has anything to do with a purely Kashmiri phenomenon.

Where?

o yaara common now!! you've been on this forum long enough; just browse through this thread or the 4-5+ other threads encompassing the Kashmir situation

I wont make the mistake of thinking PDF or the ''rhat-shack'' are representative of all sentiments on the actual ground. Many people have mixed views.

but nevertheless, some of the things your comrades are saying about Kashmiris are unwarranted......at least dont have the nerve to call it ''integral part of hindustan'' because this is not the reality


enough with bringing up Baluchistan or Nagaland at this time.

 

[Awesome]

From a personal blog:

Kashtastrophe | Asim Aquil – Defence.pk blogger

Just because the world has decided to ignore Kashmir and give India a free hand in its tyranny, oppression and terrorism against the Kashmiris, it doesn’t mean their struggle for independence has faded away. Kashmiris are showing the entire world that they are not part of India, they want freedom, they are ready to beat up every soldier India has sent there – but is the world working too hard to look the other way?

Kashmiris have sucessfully pierced the Indian slogan of “All is well” and replaced with the more prominent “Go to Hell” by their constant protesting in Kashmir for several months now. The pictures of Indian security forces (local police, border patrol and even the Army regulars) are all being slapped around by locals; there are scores of pictures of old grandmas whacking away at the Indians in protest. One really has to wonder, where are the likes of the NY Times, Washington Post, the Guardian, the Independent and many others who are on a constant tirade against Pakistan over its role in supporting/exporting/aiding/manipulating the Taliban but only passing references to the core issue in South Asia.

India doesn’t like the countries (or worse, businesses like newspapers) who highlight the Kashmir issue for what it is but love those target its enemies (also business – like newspapers). For NYTimes a rape instigated by a Shariat Court in Pakistan is close to the end of the world – but thousands of rapes in Kashmir by the Indian army – men in uniform (arguably ordered to rape) – doesn’t even deserve questioning India over and over about what its doing in Kashmir.

I’m not belittling the rape in Pakistan, I too feel that is of dire consequences but for genuine reasons to uplift of the status of women in Pakistan – not India appeasement.

When India insists Kashmir is an internal matter, why don’t these news agencies quip up a question “Why are your people so sick of you? Do they remain your people when they are all saying they are not?” The right of self-determination is something the UN granted Kashmir, India signed on it, Pakistan signed on it.

The western world has been nitpicking on everything Pakistan on issues that should not be larger than the oppression of millions of people, yet the same enthusiasm is missing for Kashmir.

My message to the western world is, man up please. Be fair and give the same respect to our issues that you demand from us. Otherwise you’re a party to India’s monstrosity in Kashmir – you’re a rapist too.

 

[Peshwa]

If you want transfer of population they why not complete transfer?
why not between whole India and Pak?

If you're so easily ready to give up Indian Muslims....are you also ready to give up the achievements India has made thanks to its Muslim citizens?

Are u willing to give up the missile technology that India boasts of? Are u willing to give up the sacrifice of Abdul Hamid in defending Kashmir for India?
Are u willing to give up Wipro and Azim Premji that have helped India become an IT and tech powerhouse and contribute to the rise of the Indian economy?
Should all the Khans move out of Bollywood?
Most importantly....should we give up Katrina Kaif....LOL!!...jk


You get my point....Indian muslims are our brothers in every regard....Do remember India comes first!

Please dont embarass us by making such statements......We see a lot of this from the other side of the border with the likes of Omar19xx and his ilk......
We are much better than that.....

 

[LaBong]

Not as as long as peoples' vote depends on Kashmir issue. Till then jobs and inflation are the things that matter.

 

[anurag_singh]

If you're so easily ready to give up Indian Muslims....are you also ready to give up the achievements India has made thanks to its Muslim citizens?

Are u willing to give up the missile technology that India boasts of? Are u willing to give up the sacrifice of Abdul Hamid in defending Kashmir for India?
Are u willing to give up Wipro and Azim Premji that have helped India become an IT and tech powerhouse and contribute to the rise of the Indian economy?
Should all the Khans move out of Bollywood?
Most importantly....should we give up Katrina Kaif....LOL!!...jk


You get my point....Indian muslims are our brothers in every regard....Do remember India comes first!

Please dont embarass us by making such statements......We see a lot of this from the other side of the border with the likes of Omar19xx and his ilk......
We are much better than that.....

Where I am saying about transfer of Indian Muslims. I am just asking to him that why transfer of kashmiri population on the basis of religion. If religion is the basis then why it is not applicable for whole population.

 

[karan.1970]

moot point; Gen. Kayani saab himself has no such wishes or ambitions.

Irrelavent since Kayani's motives are not in question here(though neither of us can claim to know those). We were talking about the thought process of some PDF members and how that's not the representative of the national mindset of either Pakistan or India.

as for Kashmiri youth; when frustration and anger build up, then of course one day the ''kettle'' will burst from excess pressure

And that happens in many parts of the country (both your and mine). We will organize a new kettle...

why is my view misguided? I am right until you can prove me wrong. You could shoot back and say the same to me; except even you have politicians rubbishing any rumours that ISI has anything to do with a purely Kashmiri phenomenon.

Exactly. I can shoot back the same as I said, you are entitled to your view and I am to mine. Just like some politicians are rubbishing this claim, some are supporting it. So neither or us can prove each other wrong. So I am not going to try

o yaara common now!! you've been on this forum long enough; just browse through this thread or the 4-5+ other threads encompassing the Kashmir situation

I wont make the mistake of thinking PDF or the ''rhat-shack'' are representative of all sentiments on the actual ground. Many people have mixed views.

but nevertheless, some of the things your comrades are saying about Kashmiris are unwarranted......

And Thats right. If some misguided minority in India or on this forum terms all Kashmiris as terrorists, then they are idiots. However, terrorist or not, if a citizen during curfew comes out and tries to throw rocks at the sec officers, he should plan for the worst. If he doesnt get killed in this foolish endevour, its good and nice, but he cant feel entitled to get away with it.

at least dont have the nerve to call it ''integral part of hindustan'' because this is not the reality


enough with bringing up Baluchistan or Nagaland at this time.

Oh I will have much more nerve than that. I will say its an integral part of India and openly challenge anyone to try and take it away..

Balochistan is your problem and Nagaland is ours. Both are outdated so I dont want to go there at all. The current hot topic in Pakistan seems to be Sindh (Karachi) where more than double the number of people have died in 3 days than what have died in Kashmir in over 3 weeks...But thats your problem not India's and we have no business interjecting in your internal affair..