Kashmir | News & Discussions.

[toxic_pus]

I'd appreciate a link to that report, since it is missing in the two books on 'documents of Kashmir conflict' that I possess (not suggesting it does not exist, just that I would like to read through it since my books - one by a Pakistani and the other by an Indian -appear to have omitted it).

I don’t know if I can provide a link to the documents, I can post screen captures though.

Para 242 (partial)

Para 243 (entire)

Secondly, whether negotiations were to be strictly tripartite or not does not change the central point of argument that Pakistan was not required to unilaterally withdraw, and therefore committed no violation of the UNSC resolutions in not withdrawing, while negotiations on demilitarization and the conditions of a plebiscite were conducted, as is often claimed by Indian commentators.

Since India was not required to hold any plebiscite unless Pakistan withdrew and certain other conditions, incidental to such withdrawal, were fulfilled, can we then agree that India also didn’t violate any UNSC resolution by not holding any plebiscite, simply because the conditions necessary for holding such plebiscite did not exist then, and still continue not to exist.

PS: Out of sheer curiosity, which books are you referring to?

 

[toxic_pus]

And the direction of the State changes with the leadership, and that has been especially true in Pakistan given the rather massive changes wrought by certain leaders (Zia for example) who are now vilified and whose 'changes' are being undone, step by step.

I’ll take your word for granted because you know about Pakistan more than I do. It appears however, that 56% of your population still haven’t got the memo. They still think that Kashmir is all about fighting Jihad.

Jinnah was a man like any other, and men are not perfect, so while he may have had his reasons, in hindsight I would argue such a compromise would have served everyone well. Nonetheless, IIRC, India's position on plebiscite in Kashmir and Junagadh required the accession of Junagadh to Pakistan to be annulled, which is something Jinnah was opposed to since the actual accession itself was legal.

Jinnah made mistakes. So did his Indian counterpart. We the hoi polloi are suffering for their mistakes.

India’s position that accession of Junagadh to Pakistan be annulled was not something that came in the way of holding plebiscite. If Junagadh’s accession to Pakistan was annulled then Kashmir’s accession to India had to be annulled as well and to the best of my understanding, Nehru and Mountbatten both acknowledged that fact.

Jinnah's position on Kashmir was likely influenced by the atrocities and open discrimination of the Maharajah against the local population (Muslims primarily) and his suppression of them, and the subsequent revolt against the Maharajahs rule by locals, in whose assistance the Tribal raiders went to Kashmir.

Not really. But that is a separate discussion that we may indulge in, at some other time in some other appropriate thread.

 

[toxic_pus]

The document which binds India and Pakistan, binds it to the words that STATE both India and Pakistan has to minimize the forces.

I am tired of quoting the resolutions and reports and everything. Just give the resolution of 13, Aug, 1948 a patient reading.

Dude, seriously wtf are you talking about? As they say in Lahore, Lut machi hui hai kya? We'll leave Kashmir for you to walk over? Aiyay, swahagatum!

That presupposes that Pakistan is entitled to possess Kashmir and hence responsible for its security, both internal and external.

The famous Pakistani sense of entitlement.

Come out of this fantasy world and stop clutching at excuses and do the right thing. The only monstrosity here is that which is being committed by India and India alone! India's oppressions, subsequent genocides in Kashmir, the kidnappings, the arson, the rapes, the fake encounters, the mass graves - India deserves to be beaten out of Kashmir if it doesn't opt for plebiscite.

Only India is wrong.

Aye aye, Kaptaan Pakistan.

If land of pure is wrong, then it will become land of impure. But it is not land of impure. Therefore land of pure is never wrong.

Theorem proved. Where's my candy?

 

[GUNNER]

SRINAGAR, India, June 25, 2010 (AFP) - Two Kashmiri men were killed Friday and three others injured when Indian paramilitary forces opened fire as anti-India protesters pelted their vehicle with stones, police said.

The incident took place in the town of Sopore, some 50 kilometres (31 miles) north of Srinagar, the summer capital of the insurgency-racked region.

"Protesters hurled stones and tried to overturn a paramilitary vehicle prompting the soldiers to open fire that left two dead and three others injured," a police officer told AFP, demanding anonymity.

The death marked the fifth killing in which Indian security forces have been implicated during the past two weeks. Earlier three killings -- all in Srinagar -- set off a wave of angry protests and strikes against Indian rule.

After the fresh killings, thousands of residents in Sopore poured on to the streets chanting, "we want freedom" and "blood for blood," witnesses said.

Authorities imposed a curfew to prevent violent protests, the officer said.

The latest incident came as hardliners called Friday for Internet protests against Indian rule in Kashmir as they launched a fresh drive against New Delhi with a crippling strike.

"We appeal people to post 'Go India, Go Back' on Facebook, Twitter and other social networking sites on June 27," senior leader Masarat Alam said in Srinagar.

"The Internet will help us spread our message across the globe," said Alam as Friday's strike closed down shops, schools and offices in Srinagar and other towns in the Muslim-majority Kashmir valley.

"People will know Kashmiris want Indian troops out," added Alam, who was released from jail this month after spending nearly two years in custody for participating in huge anti-India protests in 2008.

Tensions have been running high for months after locals, backed by police, accused the military of killing three civilians in April.

Alam announced a nine-day campaign of strikes and protests.

He called for a total strike on Friday as well as on July 2 and 3. In between, Alam urged people to hold demonstrations against "India's occupation of Kashmir".

His call came a day after 80-year-old Syed Ali Geelani was charged under a tough security act with being a threat to public order following a string of public protests.

Geelani has been in and out of jail since rebels launched the insurgency against Indian rule in Kashmir in 1989, a conflict that has claimed more than 47,000 lives

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

انّا للہ و انّا الیہ راجعون

 

[kugga]

Sopore town, 50 kilometres north of Kashmir's summer capital Srinagar, has been under indefinite curfew since Friday after two young men died when troops opened fire in response to anti-India protesters who attacked their vehicle.

Police clamped the curfew on the town after thousands of people poured into the streets, torched a security vehicle and attacked a police station to protest against the killing of the two men.

On Saturday, thousands of demonstrators, defying the curfew, staged noisy protests and clashed with security forces.
Chanting “We want freedom!” and “Blood for blood!”, hundreds of residents again defied the curfew on Sunday, prompting security forces to fire rubber bullets that killed a 24-year old man, a police officer said.

“A rubber bullet pierced his neck. He died on the way to Srinagar's main hospital,” the officer said, adding several others were injured.

Residents said the victim was not part of the protest and was heading to a mosque when he was hit.

Tensions have risen in recent months in Indian-administered Kashmir, where two decades of rebellion against New Delhi's rule have left thousands dead.

In all six civilians have been killed in incidents implicating Indian security forces over the past two weeks.

Nuclear-armed rivals India and Pakistan each rule part of Kashmir but lay claim to all of the scenic Himalayan region.

Authorities ordered a judicial probe into the earlier killing of the two young men by security forces in a bid to stem protests. -AFP

 

[salvation]

Just look at the picture above. We can see youth of kashmir in stone pelting. This shows the sorry state in which the are in.
The entire generation of kashmir ,it seems, is highly frustrated. The think by taking out their anger against law enforcement agencies they are going to make their mark in the society and they would be remembered as martyrs. But they fail to understand that they are just a name, nobody will remember them. By doing so they themselves are harming themselves. Its because of these violent activities their state receives none of the massive investment from the companies. Hence they remain unemployed and retort to violence. By now they should have realised that they should ride with india on the roads of prosperity.
Recently there was news that a kashmiri youth has topped civil services exams! This shows how broadminded and fair our society is.
These kashmiri youth should take examples from that boy.

 

[Spring Onion]

Those fighting for their freedom from Indian occupation or any occupation Never care if you remember them or not. They know only thing that they will keep on fighting against the invaders.

 

[Arjun MBT]

Stone Pelting is a serious Offence, offenders are to be Punished.... Provoking Security Forces In sensitive Areas such as these will End Up In a fire.... At least these people Must Have Known that before throwing Stones at security forces...

 

[salvation]

Incidents like this give a very bad impression about kashmiris. We are forced to think that they are not a part of our civil society.
Just take the example of what happened after the earthquake in JnK.
Stats showed that after the disaster there was alarmingly less amount collected in the Prime Minister's relief fund for this purpose. When debate occured over this then people said "Why to send our hard earned money for people who dont even consider themselves as part of india?"
Incidents like these put more doubt in our minds.
Its sad but true.

 

[Spring Onion]

Incidents like this give a very bad impression about kashmiris. We are forced to think that they are not a part of our civil society.
Just take the example of what happened after the earthquake in JnK.
Stats showed that after the disaster there was alarmingly less amount collected in the Prime Minister's relief fund for this purpose. When debate occured over this then people said "Why to send our hard earned money for people who dont even consider themselves as part of india?"
Incidents like these put more doubt in our minds.
Its sad but true.

They are indeed NOT part of India neither your society. You are brutally killing innocent Kashmiris. And there is no doubt there should be no doubt about Kashmiris being NON-Indians.

 

[billi]

Those fighting for their freedom from Indian occupation or any occupation Never care if you remember them or not. They know only thing that they will keep on fighting against the invaders.

Sorry, we are not occupying forces, they are secessionist forces.
Dont want to remember the Kashmiri terrorists. Thank you.

 

[Arjun MBT]

They are indeed NOT part of India neither your society. You are brutally killing innocent Kashmiris. And there is no doubt there should be no doubt about Kashmiris being NON-Indians.

Oh there goes it again, Ok, Would You Kind Heartedly accept if we hand Over all the kashmiris to you?? Would you take it?? Or do U want it along with kashmir, are u in love with kashmir or Kashmiris is the Question?

The Day when Kashmiris realize it, they will stop being Like this to us...

 

[Spring Onion]

Oh there goes it again, Ok, Would You Kind Heartedly accept if we hand Over all the kashmiris to you?? Would you take it?? Or do U want it along with kashmir, are u in love with kashmir or Kashmiris is the Question?

The Day when Kashmiris realize it, they will stop being Like this to us...

They are not commodities who should be handed over to anyone. Neither they need to expelled because they have their own Country called Kashmir which is occupied by terrorist state of India.

If you dont want any trouble please get out of Kashmir instead of expelling Kashmiris from their Country.

 

[salvation]

They are indeed NOT part of India neither your society. You are brutally killing innocent Kashmiris. And there is no doubt there should be no doubt about Kashmiris being NON-Indians.

You cannot take care of your Pakistan Occopied Kashmir and you are claiming entire kashmir??
Have you forgotten what happened after the earthquakes, you were unable to reach the quake affected parts of ***. And the entire world criticized you for not taking help of india in providing relief in ***.
Kashmir has been an integral part of india and will always be.
Lets see what can you do in this regard.