Kashmir | News & Discussions.

[sathruvinasakh]

When was the last time Kashmir was part of India??????????????


get over your Orange media and your orange minded politicians who always do poom poom poo

Poor kid.I think your history books didnt tell you that pakistan was born on the eve of 1947 when queen of england mated with India.

And for your further enlightenment,
Go to the worlds oldest library and find out the worlds oldest history book .You will know about the ancient India (called Bharatavarsha or in short Bharat)

 

[EjazR]

OK - enough of the crying part already.

Is there anything legitimate to discuss here or should I close the thread now?

My observations:

India's objections on Chinese investment (or any other nation for that matter) in Kashmir are invalid since the only international guidelines on Kashmir are those of the UNSC Resolutions.

The Resolutions do not prevent investment in the disputed territory by either the controlling entity or other nations. The people of Kashmir cannot be forced to live in caves and mud huts now can they?

India herself has invested a tremendous amount in the disputed territory under her control to try and win the loyalty of the Kashmiris. If anything, this opposition to Chinese investment would imply that India does not want the people of PaK to benefit from economic development, which is a very negative position to take, and is unlikely to win any support for India from the people of G-B or Azad Kashmir.

AM the point is that Pakistan herself can invest in the part of Kashmir in its area of control and build schools hospitals e.t.c. since its a bilaterla issue between India and Pakistan. But when a foreign country (that illegaly occupies parts of Gilgit Baltistan and Ladakh) does the same, its compeltely different an apparently unacceptable

 

[sathruvinasakh]

2007/04——2008/03 India-China trade nears $37.8 billion


China’s exports to India

1、electrical machinery and equipment（$7.6 billion )
2、Non-electric machinery and equipment（$3.2billion ）
3、Steel and iron （$1.9billion ）
4、Organic chemical industry （$1.7billion ）
5、Coal, coke class （$1.2billion ）

India’s exports to China

1、Iron ore （$5.3billion ）
2、Cotton （$1billion ）
3、Other minerals （$1billion ）
4、Non-ferrous metal （0.4billion）
5、Plastic and linoleum product （0.33billion）

Well, this year trade alone reached $50 billion with more than 75% being exports from China.It is china who will loose more if it looses its 10th biggest trade partner.for Indian companies ,it will be a boon.Atleast Indians will get away from the crappiest cheap chinese junk.

 

[grey boy 2]

Respectfully sir, I disagree.

Taiwan-to-Kashmir - isnt that comical? You compare a nation that desperately not want to join so-called Chinese union to Kashmir. Let me break the logic for you so that you can see your fallacy!

# J&K is governed by India via democratic elections. Taiwan has democratic elections but they are not in Chinese-senate.
# Taiwan desperately arming itself to fend off China by having state-of-art weapons and having US warships on its soil.
# Taiwan used to have permanent seat until China was reseated during the Coldwar for fulfilling US interests. (compare that India and Kashmir )
# Kashmir people can live anywhere in India, Chinese will need a visa to go to Taiwan.

I think it would beneficial to read more news and understand what is going in the world other than reading Asia times.

Now, regarding your argument for Tibet people living in India. India allows refugees - that is the state policy. These monks are living in India with no consequence to China. There are no terrorists with them that explode(!)

So as a Indian refugee, they have rights to move anywhere in the country. India is governed by constitution and every individual is empowered with those rights. India does not need China to tell us how run our country. I am sure more than a billion people concur.

Free thought is exercised in India. If China has difficulty working with free media, it should not consider other states will follow as it works with its media. How pathetic you guys are banned watching even youtube - God forbid you know what is really happening in your own country.

Let me tell you the different between TRUTH and FICTION;

Your post= FICTION.

The article below= TRUTH.

India can't match China's military force: Navy Chief

New Delhi: Chief of Naval Staff Admiral Sureesh Mehta has set off a storm by saying India cannot match China military force. Is it a warning from India's military that the government needs to hear?


"In military terms, both conventional and non-conventional, we neither have the capability nor the intention to match China force for force," said Admiral Sureesh Mehta.


For a nuclear-armed military representing the interests of a billion-plus people, the lack of confidence is quite striking. India's military leadership has made a stunning confession that New Delhi doesn't have the stomach for a fight, if push came to shove on the disputed Sino-Indian boundary.


"Whether in terms of GDP, defence spend or any other parameter, the gap between the two is too wide to bridge and is getting wider by the day," he said.


Is Mehta expressing frustration at the slow pace of India's military modernisation? While India spends about $30 billion annually on defence, China spends at least thrice as much, although some estimates go up to $ 200 billion.


Its military is twice as large as India and its nuclear arsenal far well proven.

P.S. Its always nice to live in your sweet wet dream, enjoy !!

 

[sathruvinasakh]

MOD should be providing an AXE to every Indian women.Atleast in Kashmir region.Terrorists will be pissing in their pants........lol

 

[EjazR]

So, if you settle on that thinking, then we can talk of today's notion of nation.

#1 India was formed a secular democratic state whereas, Pakistan was the one that wanted an Islamic Republic. So, just because Kashmir had Muslim majority cannot in its own make Kashmiris aligning with Pakistan.

#2 Pakistani army attacked Kashmir , not India. The Kashmiri people informed the King to protect them from invaders (not liberators)

#3 Kashmiri King signed agreement with India to join India. Only, then India joined the war.

#4 In 1965, Pakistani army thought of liberating (?) Kashmir. And Kashmiri people informed Indian government of actions and India fought back. This is ridiculous as the so-called liberators are caught by the same people who Pakistani army wanted to liberate.

#5 In 1971, LOAC was defined and the agreement was signed by Pakistan and India and all future talks will be bilateral.


So a country which does not gets its way either by people's backing (in Kashmir), by armed aggression (1965 war) and by politically (in 1971), they turned to the last attempt - by sending terrorists into the country.

I think China should be proud of this country because very soon the same people are planning to send terrorists to China to liberate (?) Uljmers. Probably, then China will see it.

There is a saying in India - wise sees things before it happens, the learned sees things when it happens and less intelligent people cannot see even after it happens.

You forgot to add that Sheikh Abdulla was the most popular leader in J&K at that time and he was against Muslim League policies and led a secular National Conference party. It was he who truly represented the vast majority of people of J&K and not the King although his ascension was necessary from the legal point of view


Excerpts from Sheikh Abdullah's Opening Address to the J&K Constituent Assembly, 5 November 1951

Our movement to freedom has been connected against the background of this same old struggle. We stood for the brotherhood of men of all creeds and strengthened our union on the basis of common work and sacrifice .Against us were ranged the force of religious bigotry centred in the Muslim league and its satellites, and the Hindu communalists from within and without the State. Ranged against us ,and often in alliance with communalism were the forces of the autocratic States ,backup on the Paramount Power, and on the other, by the rich landowners and other beneficiaries of Court patronage.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Stick to the topic please.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

You forgot to add that Sheikh Abdulla was the most popular leader in J&K at that time and he was against Muslim League policies and led a secular National Conference party. It was he who truly represented the vast majority of people of J&K and not the King although his ascension was necessary from the legal point of view


Excerpts from Sheikh Abdullah's Opening Address to the J&K Constituent Assembly, 5 November 1951

You cannot argue that just because you believe a particular leader was popular, that that satisfies the condition of plebiscite or is illustrative of the sentiment of Kashmiris on a particular issue.

Political leaders tend to be popular with different people for different reasons - social programs, ideological reasons, economic policies, vision for the future etc. But popularity as a political figure does not automatically imply widespread support for a specific issue (becoming part of India or Pakistan) amongst the populace.

 

[rajeev]

Let me tell you the different between TRUTH and FICTION;

Your post= FICTION.

The article below= TRUTH.

India can't match China's military force: Navy Chief

Its military is twice as large as India and its nuclear arsenal far well proven.

P.S. Its always nice to live in your sweet wet dream, enjoy !!

Thanks sir, I have read this some time back.

When I replied you, you hardly had any answers for my two posts. When you choke up, you throw another ball. You need to learn to argue and not write "YOU=FICTION, I = TRUTH". This does not make much sense.

Now, lets attempt a third time

When ex-Indian defence minister Geoge Fernades claimed that India needs nuclear bomb because of Chinese threat, you guys said what threat? Such statements are not welcome. This would make us an enemy.

Now when India is buying bulk amount of arms saying that we are too small for China, you say we are huge. We are superpower.

China has quantity, India has quality in all departments of warfare except nuclear and tactical missile technology. In all other departments, Indians are welcomed to get best quality products. If you have read the most recent news - Australia wants to join India-US war games. Do you think Indians benefit from that?

India has a political system that enables it to create politicians who however, corrupt has the capacity to eek out favorable terms. Did you happen to notice nuclear deal from US, or number of major countries who are in favor of UNSC permanent seat - no one other than China had any real objection.

I think it is not in dispute China has more power than India and if India attempts to invade China, it will lose. But India has much large force to assault an incoming Chinese force.

The ball is in China's court to decide what kind of relationship it wants from India. At this point in time, we are easily favored over China by most major countries.

In International geo-politics, there are no permanent friends or permanent enemies, only permanent interets. India has so far not offended Chinese interests, but you got to realize India has opportunities. When China supplies arms to India's enemies, India can also do other things!

 

[sathruvinasakh]

There are two ways to settle a dispute . One is through Peacefull and mutually benificial give and take Diplomacy . The other is to engage in a never ending bloody WAR .
Now its up to the Indians to Decide .
If the Kashmir Dispute is peacefully Resolved then the whole south asian reagion would make a giant leap forward towards progress ,stability and Development.

Just think of the Economic benifit which can surely pay off any loss . Relations could be strengthened which may result in boosting the trade .

If you look the other way it would be huge benifit if the Kashmir issue is resolved .

And pls i request some of my forum members to try not to fuel destructive ideas of going to War with India. Practically No one can do this . So instead of chest beating wasting your minds upon point scoring please try to contribute towards the Logical , Peaceful and Diplomatic solutions for the Kashmir Dispute. Its Resolution is must if both Pakistan and India want to excel and Develop .

^^^^
Hey,
is it the first time ever in my whole life----seing a pakistani with non-voilence attitude?
Keep it up.everything pays off.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

AM the point is that Pakistan herself can invest in the part of Kashmir in its area of control and build schools hospitals e.t.c. since its a bilaterla issue between India and Pakistan. But when a foreign country (that illegaly occupies parts of Gilgit Baltistan and Ladakh) does the same, its compeltely different an apparently unacceptable

Why is it unacceptable if a foreign nation invests? At the end of the day it is the people of the region that benefit, whether the investment is by the entity administering the disputed territory or a foreign partner.

The status of the disputed territory is not changed by any such investment, which is the only point on which a valid objection could be entertained internationally - and even on that count any Indian protest would be hypocritical given that India has annexed internationally recognized disputed territory through its constitution, in violation of the international framework on Kashmir ala the UNSC resolutions.

So India really has no legs to stand on in terms of being taken seriously in this 'protest'.

 

[grey boy 2]

You really dont need navy chief to say that .Any Indian will agree on that word.We are behind china in terms of quantitative edge.Be it army strength of 2.3 million or airforce strenght of 1200 aircraft or even the 280 naval vessels.the reason for this is simple.India being ruled by democratically elected people while china is not.Hence you cant spend your money on defence as like your adversary.more over india is runs low on cash unlike its counterpart.
And a wish to reach the peak with no energy is simply a wet dream.And neither India not its establishment dream of such.They are more or less happy in maintaining the current strengths with qualitative edge.
At the end of the day,its not numbers that matters,Its the quality and will which matters.
Peace .

So, whats you mean ? your leaders were all liars ?

Or you feel too ashame to swallow the truth ?

Please don't preach your caste-democracy !

By the way, no need to argue with me, i didn't wrote the article.

At the end of the day, you have to give credit to your GOI to have

the courage to "ask" China to stay out of Azad Kashmir.

 

[rajeev]

You cannot argue that just because you believe a particular leader was popular, that that satisfies the condition of plebiscite or is illustrative of the sentiment of Kashmiris on a particular issue.

Political leaders tend to be popular with different people for different reasons - social programs, ideological reasons, economic policies, vision for the future etc. But popularity as a political figure does not automatically imply widespread support for a specific issue (becoming part of India or Pakistan) amongst the populace.

I agree with you Agnostic Muslim. My personal opinion is that India is doing this posturing to show what China did to India few days back.

I also hope Kashmir gets resolved one day for betterment for all of us and we all will have the opportunity to grow and atleast get closer to our truer potential. So many people in our part of the world does not have the opportunities that luckily blessed to us.

 

[sathruvinasakh]

So, whats you mean ? your leaders were all liars ?

Or you feel too ashame to swallow the truth ?

Please don't preach your caste-democracy !

By the way, no need to argue with me, i didn't wrote the article.

At the end of the day, you have to give credit to your GOI to have

the courage to "ask" China to stay out of Azad Kashmir.

So far India didnt took stance agaist china is not because GOI is lacking balls.It is because untill the past year GOI was formed with coalition of other communist parties along with congress.with communists out of the way,there is nothing left in the way of current GOI.be it taking a hard stance against chinese incursions or chinese help in ***.

But on the reality end you people are forgetting one thing.If the US didnt have/had interfere during the 62 war India would have unleashed the IAF power along with foot soldiers on the ground and with further reinforcements coming in a day.the end of the 62 war would have been a bitter taste to invading chinese.
India following the words of US tasted the bitterness itself.

and another reality is that India will never ever invade China nor even contemplate that.Cause the only reason is ,it is not in Indian interests.So chinese can be holed safe in their bunkers untill the end of the world.but on contrary China wont follow the same suite.It will invade India or atleast try to do that.And the result of the war will be a life line to the CPC.

China can do and play all kind of ball games only untill 2014.After that it will be busy finding the way to stop the domestic fires.
Peace.

 

[oceanx]

Respectfully sir, I disagree.

Taiwan-to-Kashmir - isnt that comical? ...

# J&K is governed by India via democratic elections. ...
# Taiwan desperately arming itself to fend off China by having state-of-art weapons and having US warships on its soil.

Now, regarding your argument for Tibet people living in India.

Free thought is exercised in India...

I am lost and will you help me find my way, my good SIR?

Did I say people in Taiwan were clamouring to "re-unite"? No, I simply implied that it is an international issue, regardless how PRC sees it internally.

And irrespective of how you "democracy" this and "election that", Tibet is an internal issue just as Khalistan or Balochistan is. And by no means am I in agreement with how PRC handled this particular issue from start to finish.

For all that free thought of Bharat - plus supersized "free thought" of USA, one would think Sir Raj would appreciate logic ...

And back to your loincloth Kashmiri "democracy", SIR. There is more to democracy than pro-forma elections "fixed" by plutocrats just as there is more to virginity than an intact hymen stitched up by a pimp.

BTW, give anyone half a million soldiers armed to the teeth and some "electronic" voting boxes, and throw in some Rupees or $, and s/he'll have you a list of approved candidates with 70% turn-out just as well.

Never mind Asia Times - btw, did I quote it (see why I am lost)? Let me repeat it to you: Kashmir is an international issue and a Plebiscite with an independence option is the way to go - eventually.

For the time being, perhaps a cooling off of the issue is most desirable - analogous to the situation across Taiwan Straight.

BTW, you do not know my personal stance regarding Taiwan and I will not veer off topic just for you - not after explicit warnings from mods.

Like it or not, Azad Kashmir is akin to India's Jammu.

And disputed Kashmir is internationally unsettled.

P.S., I registered your "water war" - Bharat's hands on this are blacker than anybody else's in the neighbourhood. But I won't indulge in another off-topic side track.