Kashmir Issue : Our options & possible Course of Action

[R Wing]

Sure. In regards to solution to the current issue. I still believe that it's best to focus on house, then expand.

Going for Nuclear weapons is a different scenario. Nuclear weapons are something which guarantee the protection of your sovereignty and territory.

If there was some other superweapon, I would say that we should go for it no matter what. But the case here is in regards to Kashmir and taking it back.

Here's the issues.

- It's a stalemate, at the moment.

- We don't have the economy to sustain a war if we start it, neither the economy to mass procure weapons.

- FATF. Can we supply arms to freedom fighters in Kashmir?

- If we push, then it's dangerous, it can escalate out of hand and into a Nuclear war. You tell me, is it viable to go to war?

- International community won't do much at all.

So, what options do we have? Wait it out. Palestine would kill for an opportunity of even 10 years to build herself up by making a peace deal, but Israel does not allow it. Why? They know, if that is allowed, then Palestine will hit back harder and with a proper punch.
Here in our case, we are perfectly capable of defending ourselves, and have all the time reserved to us. So, what's the haste? Keep an eye on Kashmir, make sure world is aware, and dilution of population does not occur, and keep diplomatic channels for talks open, but build your economy.

Thank you for responding (on topic!)

You bring up some excellent points. Allow me to disagree.

On the surface, everything you're saying makes complete sense. We should focus inward, we should develop ourselves, we should keep an eye on Kashmir, we shouldn't risk FATF blacklisting, etc.

There are a few things to consider:

1.) Allowing India to illegally consolidate Kashmir means giving them a free hand in detaining and killing any youth they suspect of joining or wanting to join the armed resistance. It also means their intelligence agencies entrenching themselves much more deeply into society and making future uprisings exponentially more difficult.

2.) FATF is a political tool that we have to counter at the appropriate forums by pointing out India's well-known support to Baloch terrorism. Will this suddenly flip things for the better? Of course not. But it will at least get us out of this slave mentality of accepting any and all coercive measures they throw at us. We are painting ourselves into a corner. All that's needed is a false flag or falsified/forged evidence that we support militancy and the party is up. India has done similar things and will continue to do them. Where will we stand then? We should fulfill all our FATF requirements but also quietly and discretely keep arming the Kashmiris.

3.) Weapons don't need to be "mass procured" --- in batches of 50, even a couple of 'shipments' can cause serious trouble in the Valley in terms of ambushing patrols, harassing supply lines, etc.

4.) I would argue that the IOK cause, even without the moral impetus, should be pursued with the same drive and creativity of our nuclear program. The main reason is our water security, which is a much bigger threat than terrorism or India's ill-equipped and poorly trained army. I hope this can help you consider my approach.

5.) Nobody is starting a war. If India wants war, it won't wait for us to give it a reason --- it will create one. So, we might as well go about doing what we think is right. Constant small-scale attacks (death by a thousand cuts) will never breach the threshold of a proper war yet will bog them down further in the occupied Valley. This is the morbid beauty of an insurgency. It can complicate things for a much larger force in asymmetric ways while staying below the threshold of a conventional response.

Thanks for hearing me out.

 

[cricketrulez]

Is all the drama bazi of degradation of relations, expelling of ambassdor, suspension of trade and closing of airspace temporary or permanent?

Will people still travel for cultural exchange (chai biskoot Tracktoo), medical tourism (mostly from Pak to Ind), sportiting ties be gone for good?

Will pak play ind in WC cricket? will pak still seek bilaterals with ind?

 

[Tumba]

Is all the drama bazi of degradation of relations, expelling of ambassdor, suspension of trade and closing of airspace temporary or permanent?

Will people still travel for cultural exchange (chai biskoot Tracktoo), medical tourism (mostly from Pak to Ind), sportiting ties be gone for good?

Will pak play ind in WC cricket? will pak still seek bilaterals with ind?

Cricket will be played in multi national tournaments rest it seems for now at least tenure of current Pakistani govt. any chai biskoot dealings are dead, you dont expect for any Govt to Govt relations when you call other govt NAZI regime haha.
The current trajectory of two nations are moving in opposite poles anyway so in future also thr is not much chance that any common linkages can be established.

 

[cricketrulez]

Cricket will be played in multi national tournaments rest it seems for now at least tenure of current Pakistani govt. any chai biskoot dealings are dead, you dont expect for any Govt to Govt relations when you call other govt NAZI regime haha.
The current trajectory of two nations are moving in opposite poles anyway so in future also thr is not much chance that any common linkages can be established.

So Pak will have no problem visiting nazi genocidal countries for cricket?

 

[Pakistansdefender]

Is all the drama bazi of degradation of relations, expelling of ambassdor, suspension of trade and closing of airspace temporary or permanent?


Will people still travel for cultural exchange (chai biskoot Tracktoo), medical tourism (mostly from Pak to Ind), sportiting ties be gone for good?

Will pak play ind in WC cricket? will pak still seek bilaterals with ind?

You are talking as if we are chums before this.....besides which country are your from?
World Cup is 4 years later and one play at international level otherwise its their own loss.

 

[Tumba]

So Pak will have no problem visiting nazi genocidal countries for cricket?

no mutual visits between Pak India that is given in cricket but may be due to international sports organizations we can expect forced visit in less popular games like Davis Cup Tennis

 

[Ultima Thule]

Is all the drama bazi of degradation of relations, expelling of ambassdor, suspension of trade and closing of airspace temporary or permanent?

Will people still travel for cultural exchange (chai biskoot Tracktoo), medical tourism (mostly from Pak to Ind), sportiting ties be gone for good?

Will pak play ind in WC cricket? will pak still seek bilaterals with ind?

@waz @The Eagle @Horus please close this this useless thread by @crictketrulez, this thread will become flamebait/ trolling thread thanks

 

[Lincoln]

So Pak will have no problem visiting nazi genocidal countries for cricket?

It's one thing to be a whining baby. If you have issues with one person, you don't cut off ties with others, and you don't stop going to the classes or events just because that person goes there too.

 

[cricketrulez]

You are talking as if we are chums before this.....besides which country are your from?
World Cup is 4 years later and one play at international level otherwise its their own loss.

Does it matter which country I'm from? I'm simply asking what the future interactions are going to be like? There is no morarji desai in the future for Ind to pull idiotic crap like the 1978 tour of Pak by Ind.

 

[Ultima Thule]

Does it matter which country I'm from? I'm simply asking what the future interactions are going to be like? There is no morarji desai in the future for Ind to pull idiotic crap like the 1978 tour of Pak by Ind.

you already knows what is the future relation between India & Pakistan so why you're asking this stupid question @cricketrulez

Does it matter which country I'm from? I'm simply asking what the future interactions are going to be like? There is no morarji desai in the future for Ind to pull idiotic crap like the 1978 tour of Pak by Ind.

you already knows what is the future relation between India & Pakistan so why you're asking this stupid question @cricketrulez

 

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

Thank you for responding (on topic!)

You bring up some excellent points. Allow me to disagree.

On the surface, everything you're saying makes complete sense. We should focus inward, we should develop ourselves, we should keep an eye on Kashmir, we shouldn't risk FATF blacklisting, etc.

There are a few things to consider:

1.) Allowing India to illegally consolidate Kashmir means giving them a free hand in detaining and killing any youth they suspect of joining or wanting to join the armed resistance. It also means their intelligence agencies entrenching themselves much more deeply into society and making future uprisings exponentially more difficult.

2.) FATF is a political tool that we have to counter at the appropriate forums by pointing out India's well-known support to Baloch terrorism. Will this suddenly flip things for the better? Of course not. But it will at least get us out of this slave mentality of accepting any and all coercive measures they throw at us. We are painting ourselves into a corner. All that's needed is a false flag or falsified/forged evidence that we support militancy and the party is up. India has done similar things and will continue to do them. Where will we stand then? We should fulfill all our FATF requirements but also quietly and discretely keep arming the Kashmiris.

3.) Weapons don't need to be "mass procured" --- in batches of 50, even a couple of 'shipments' can cause serious trouble in the Valley in terms of ambushing patrols, harassing supply lines, etc.

4.) I would argue that the IOK cause, even without the moral impetus, should be pursued with the same drive and creativity of our nuclear program. The main reason is our water security, which is a much bigger threat than terrorism or India's ill-equipped and poorly trained army. I hope this can help you consider my approach.

5.) Nobody is starting a war. If India wants war, it won't wait for us to give it a reason --- it will create one. So, we might as well go about doing what we think is right. Constant small-scale attacks (death by a thousand cuts) will never breach the threshold of a proper war yet will bog them down further in the occupied Valley. This is the morbid beauty of an insurgency. It can complicate things for a much larger force in asymmetric ways while staying below the threshold of a conventional response.

Thanks for hearing me out.

And, don't also forget the other parts of India!!!

 

[cricketrulez]

you already knows what is the future relation between India & Pakistan so why you're asking this stupid question @cricketrulez

So no more asking for medical visa? no more demanding for bilaterals in cricket? Davis cup still going to happen?

 

[Ultima Thule]

So no more asking for medical visa? no more demanding for bilaterals in cricket? Davis cup still going to happen?

you knows the current situation, it will go further beyond that, and stop trolling @cricketrulez

 

[War Thunder]

An

So you believe that Zionists control media, world powers, and that everyone is colluding to destroy Pakistan. It's all a conspiracy.

Okay.

and you believe they are not?

I can only feel sorry for your feeble intellect and lack of ability to think and interpret the world for what it is.

Keep enjoying the delusions of the world, they are sure to keep you busy till there is nothing left to be busy with.

In the meanwhile, try not to piss us off with your stupid "ignorance".

 

[Lincoln]

An


and you believe they are not?

I can only feel sorry for your feeble intellect and lack of ability to think and interpret the world for what it is.

Keep enjoying the delusions of the world, they are sure to keep you busy till there is nothing left to be busy with.

In the meanwhile, try not to piss us off with your stupid "ignorance".

Even if you believe in such a conspiracy, it's not getting you anywhere, is it.