Kargil war was a total disaster, claims Gen Majeed Malik
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Raja.Pakistani
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WASHINGTON: A retired Indian general expressed high praise here last week for the valour of Pakistani fighters in Kargil, singling out for special mention Capt Karnail Sher and Capt Hanifuddin, both of whom fell fighting and posthumously honoured.
Addressing a meeting at the Centre for Strategic and International Studies (CSIS), Lt General M Y Bammi, who retired from the Indian army in 1995 and has just published a book on the Kargil conflict – Kargil: the impregnable conquest – said the Pakistani troops had fought bravely. It was a brilliant action militarily, which had taken India by surprise. However, diplomatically and politically it turned out to be disastrous. India, contrary to Pakistani expectations, retaliated with full force and though it suffered heavy casualties, the Indian army took back every single feature captured by Pakistani troops. He said initially Pakistan had pretended that those fighting in Kargil were “mujahideen” but it later admitted that they were regular Pakistani troops, though they had a smattering of others. In any case, all doubts as to the identity of those fighting in Kargil were set at rest when Pakistan announced 92 gallantry awards at the end of the conflict, many of them posthumous.
General Bammi, who was commissioned in a Gurkha regiment, said that while bodies found at Kargil by Indian troops at recaptured positions were almost without exception those of “other ranks” or non-officers, it was ironic that quite a few of the 92 gallantry awards had gone to officers. He put the number of Pakistani dead at Kargil between 597 and 1,000. Eight were taken POWs. However, those figures were estimated ones, he added, as Pakistan had provided no official count so far. India, he said, lost 481 men, while 1,151 of its personnel suffered combat-related wounds. Two men were to this day unaccounted for.
The Indian general said Pakistani artillery fire was effective and inflicted heavy casualties on the Indians. He said there were several explanations of why Pakistan launched the Kargil operation. Did the planners assume that India would not respond? Was it an attempt to internationalise Kashmir? Or was it to gain area? He said incendiary statements of the kind that emanate from former Pakistani generals such as Aslam Beg and Hamid Gul “make us pause and think.” Meanwhile, the insurgency continues and Hindus keep getting targeted. India also worries if Pakistani nuclear assets are fully secure and in safe hands. How good is the control and command structure, it wonders?
General Bammi said there were several conflicting signals from Pakistan, such as a statement by Sardar Abdul Qayyum Khan to the effect that the Line of Control should be accepted as the permanent dividing line or the statement by federal information minister Sheikh Rashid Ahmed saying that the Kashmir issue would be resolved in three years. He emphasised that at no time during the conflict in Kargil did the two countries reach a “nuclear flashpoint.” He said the attack on the Indian parliament was a much graver provocation than Kargil. It was clear now that Pakistan had learnt a lesson from Kargil as the international community had come out against the Pakistani incursion. Pakistan had also realised that there could be no more Kargils, he added.
In answer to a question, Gen Bammi said Kargil was an Indian intelligence failure. Indian intelligence failed to read the signs or identify the activities that were going on since 1997. Indian planners were also misled by the Lahore visit of Prime Minister Atal Behari Vajpayee. He said the Kargil Plan of the Pakistan army was a very good one, but it was not new. It dated back to 1987. He added that former Pakistan army chief Gen Jehangir Karamat on a visit to New Delhi had told him that it was not his plan, nor had he ever discussed it with Benazir Bhutto.
Asked if Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif had been “taken for a ride” by the army, Gen. Bammi referred to a statement made by Gen Pervez Musharraf in September 1999 claiming that “everyone was on board” on Kargil. He said Sharif might have been informed but not given “the complete picture.”
Daily Times - Leading News Resource of Pakistan
Addressing a meeting at the Centre for Strategic and International Studies (CSIS), Lt General M Y Bammi, who retired from the Indian army in 1995 and has just published a book on the Kargil conflict – Kargil: the impregnable conquest – said the Pakistani troops had fought bravely. It was a brilliant action militarily, which had taken India by surprise. However, diplomatically and politically it turned out to be disastrous. India, contrary to Pakistani expectations, retaliated with full force and though it suffered heavy casualties, the Indian army took back every single feature captured by Pakistani troops. He said initially Pakistan had pretended that those fighting in Kargil were “mujahideen” but it later admitted that they were regular Pakistani troops, though they had a smattering of others. In any case, all doubts as to the identity of those fighting in Kargil were set at rest when Pakistan announced 92 gallantry awards at the end of the conflict, many of them posthumous.
General Bammi, who was commissioned in a Gurkha regiment, said that while bodies found at Kargil by Indian troops at recaptured positions were almost without exception those of “other ranks” or non-officers, it was ironic that quite a few of the 92 gallantry awards had gone to officers. He put the number of Pakistani dead at Kargil between 597 and 1,000. Eight were taken POWs. However, those figures were estimated ones, he added, as Pakistan had provided no official count so far. India, he said, lost 481 men, while 1,151 of its personnel suffered combat-related wounds. Two men were to this day unaccounted for.
The Indian general said Pakistani artillery fire was effective and inflicted heavy casualties on the Indians. He said there were several explanations of why Pakistan launched the Kargil operation. Did the planners assume that India would not respond? Was it an attempt to internationalise Kashmir? Or was it to gain area? He said incendiary statements of the kind that emanate from former Pakistani generals such as Aslam Beg and Hamid Gul “make us pause and think.” Meanwhile, the insurgency continues and Hindus keep getting targeted. India also worries if Pakistani nuclear assets are fully secure and in safe hands. How good is the control and command structure, it wonders?
General Bammi said there were several conflicting signals from Pakistan, such as a statement by Sardar Abdul Qayyum Khan to the effect that the Line of Control should be accepted as the permanent dividing line or the statement by federal information minister Sheikh Rashid Ahmed saying that the Kashmir issue would be resolved in three years. He emphasised that at no time during the conflict in Kargil did the two countries reach a “nuclear flashpoint.” He said the attack on the Indian parliament was a much graver provocation than Kargil. It was clear now that Pakistan had learnt a lesson from Kargil as the international community had come out against the Pakistani incursion. Pakistan had also realised that there could be no more Kargils, he added.
In answer to a question, Gen Bammi said Kargil was an Indian intelligence failure. Indian intelligence failed to read the signs or identify the activities that were going on since 1997. Indian planners were also misled by the Lahore visit of Prime Minister Atal Behari Vajpayee. He said the Kargil Plan of the Pakistan army was a very good one, but it was not new. It dated back to 1987. He added that former Pakistan army chief Gen Jehangir Karamat on a visit to New Delhi had told him that it was not his plan, nor had he ever discussed it with Benazir Bhutto.
Asked if Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif had been “taken for a ride” by the army, Gen. Bammi referred to a statement made by Gen Pervez Musharraf in September 1999 claiming that “everyone was on board” on Kargil. He said Sharif might have been informed but not given “the complete picture.”
Daily Times - Leading News Resource of Pakistan
Just as I knew. I knew we had the upperhand. It was all too obvious, but we all know to stopped us when we the upper hand.
Had we not stopped, who knows what the alternate history would have looked like- Ladakh under Pakistani control.
Anyways, to hell with cursed idiots like neutral person. clearly he is not neutral. He thinks this is in Bharat Rakshak.
Admins and mods should not allow stupid Bhartis in defence.pk
This is Pakistanis's turf, and I'm not going to allow idiots like neutral person spread lies.
Pakistan did have the upper hand at the time, but we all know what happened.
And like I said its ok, because it WASN'T A COMPLETE LOSS.
Pakistan still gained some strategic peaks. India didn't. So it was a strategic loss for India, and strategic win for Pakistan.
Alphacharlie
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Your Rationale is Negated.
In 1980s (mid) PAF had just 2 SQNs of F 16 Block 15where as IAF had 3 SQN Mig 29 A and UB Versions/2 Sqn Mirages - H versions....
Bottomline PAF in Mid 80s was taken more seriously then now, in my years we used to Often talk Western Air Command is more than capable for Entire PAF at any Ops need..........
Issue is I have Chicken Heads sitting at Top and you had/have an Ostrich (Musharaff/ Zardari best expl)
I agree, the Kargil war plan was brilliant, but Pakistan acted too late. Pakistan should have done the Kargil War earlier like in the early 1990's.
Going from Kargil and then to Leh. the Indians would be entirely cut off from the Eastern sector.
They would be deep crap. They wouldn't survived another war after that.
neutral_person
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The only idiot here is you. Pakistan lost, want another highlight reel:
Jo ukhaad na hai ukhaad le...
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lol curse idiot, your stupid video doesn't prove anything. Pakistan still WON STRATEGIC PEAKS.LOL
WHAT DID INDIA WIN. HAAHAHA NOTHING!, EXCEPT FOR SOLDIERS IN BODY BAGS.
HAHAHHA YOU ARE AN IDIOT! Windjammer's post proves it all!!! LOL!
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Bang Galore
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If you chaps keep claiming some kind of an "upper hand"(whatever that is) when you were "forced" to withdraw, it doesn't make you look good. It would only mean that you chaps are bumbling idiots who can't even hold on to a "victory", instead supposedly & repeatedly opting for "defeat". I wish some of the Pakistanis here actually ponder on what they are implying when they make these tall claims.
Lol, we still got strategic Peaks. Pakistan still had a territorial gain.
A job well done.
Not LOC border is not exactly the same as Pre-1999. Pakistan still got some strategic peaks. lol
Thats a still a victory. lol. Did India push Pakistan out of those Peaks. No! LOL!
Sorry, get lost idiots and go Bharat Rakshak if you want trash talk or talk lies, but not here.
Bang Galore
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That's what losers console themselves with. Your aim was to cut access to Siachen & internationalise the Kashmir dispute in your favour. Neither succeeded, we still have both Siachen & the part of Kashmir that we always had. Keep consoling yourselves.....
Btw, any "strategic peak" means jack now because India built tunnels to complete bypass the highway. Your chance of stopping Indian supplies to siachen now are gone with the wind....something that you guys seem to have plenty of.
neutral_person
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Most of them just need an ego boost by distorting history, after pretending to be Indians all day in their jobs so they don't end up in some FBI terrorist prison cell
LOC was moved ? Which madrassa did you learn that from? I .... Even Zaid Hamid wouldnt make up such big lies, should tell you about the level of delusion you are living with...
A1Kaid
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Why do Indians keep posting this video, it isn't even an authentic video but was released on the net several years ago by some unanimous source.
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Edevelop
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Neutral_Person is low life. You rarely seem him on other threads. The only thread i see him in is Kargil and he keeps posting this chest thumping video.
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