Kargil War hero's book narrates how Indian Army surpised the enemy and won

[deckingraj]

People might not like it, but the thing is this war disrupted the power parity. Pakistan achieved nuclear and strategic parity after nuke tests and neutralized indias conventional military preponderance. This forced india to negotiate. This war brought about the conventional element once again.

On the pakistani side, soldiers and officers were all volunteers and made the ultimate sacrifices. In place of food, they requested weapons. Blaming nawaz shareef for all of it is not fair, musharraf also after just one year went to agra to do the same thing what nawaz was doing.

Lastly, the death toll both sides took was quite high and if some indians passionately describe it as a win, they are wrong.

Please don't get me wrong however of all the propaganda out there this one irks me the most...i wonder why common man acts so dumb?? Let me ask you...are you not aware that when Kargil broke out Vajpayee was on a historic bus tour to Lahore....do you think that Vajpayee was on vacation trip there??

 

[Jamwal's]

India could have saved money and precious lives had the Indian Military chosen to blockade the supply route of the opposing force, virtually creating a siege. The issue was that such a move would have involved the Indian troops crossing the LoC as well as initiating aerial attacks on Pakistan soil, a manoeuvre India was not willing to exercise fearing an expansion of war and reducing international support for its cause.
@Abingdonboy @PARIKRAMA what's your opinion?

Or could've used Chemical weapons on infiltrators,we had the most deadly stockpiles of chemical weapons at that time.

 

[Silverblaze]

Please don't get me wrong however of all the propaganda out there this one irks me the most...i wonder why common man acts so dumb?? Let me ask you...are you not aware that when Kargil broke out Vajpayee was on a historic bus tour to Lahore....do you think that Vajpayee was on vacation trip there??

Read my comment again, I meant that the nuke tests by pakistan forced india too talk and lead to the rendezvous in lahore.

 

[atomix]

Its Indian loss, since there is no instrument of surrender.

Pakistan did not accept the intruders as their own men as such there is no way we could get instrument of surrender.
If it did then India could also have enforced war reparations.

Can you throw some light on this?? Had this been anticipation then Mushy should be publicly hanged...in fact mushy was surprised at the amount of weaponry India used in Kargil alone leave aside widening the conflict...
In Pakistan Kargil was done in very secretly...IAF was not involved, navy had no clue and if we go by reports then apart from gang of four no body was taken into confidence and here you are claiming they were anticipating India to widen the conflict??

Kargil was most probably an ego battle than Mushy might have after he lost various attempts to capture Siachen because apart from that i honestly don't see any sense in why Kargil was done...though i am happy to learn from some knowledgeable member here....

The whole idea of kargil was to internationalize and sensationalize the kashmir issue as to bring India to the table. They were expecting the conflict to widen and show case it as nuclear flashpoint. On the one hand they expected to hold back the occupied territory and harass the supply roads if every thing else fails. But on the contrary India never crossed the line as such conflict became localized. They dint get the excuse they were looking for.

Further more they shot themselves in the foot by claiming intruders were terrorists( aka freedom fighers) and are not pakistan regulars. This meant India can continue rooting them out without any explicit opposition from pakistan as international community firmly stood behind India . Pakistan looked more like thief stung by a scorpion they could neither help their own men nor could internationalize the issue. The whole plan fell flat on its face.

 

[Apoorv]

Not true all of the soldiers were of NLI , wait ill upload a video in which the army chief of that tim GEN musharaf even says the same that NLI fought the indian army


Even your media claims that Pakistan still controls the highest and most important peak in that district .


If you captured Tiger hil , than why does Indian media cry that pakistan still control the highest peak including tiger hill 5353

I have been telling u again and again but your not believing me now you'll surely believe me cause this is not Pak media but Indian media
LOL members you need to see this video ..

First gain some knowledge and come back tiger hill was point 4660 and you so called peak 5353 LOC passes through it so both army controls some of points ob the peak

 

[AnnoyingOrange]

Wrong again

Indian forces are forced to man the posts round the year due to kargil war

So is Pakistan... your point is?

Kargil was not a full fledged war so dont know about your parameter of judging the victory or lost and it could be label as stalemate as the border before and after this conflicts remained the same. How Pakistan lost when your intelligence agencies were failed to notice any movement and capturing of these important strategic posts for months until some local shepard opened your eyes and India mobilised a large number of troops to reclaim their lost territory with the aid of Indian air force, heavy Bofors guns and heavy artilleries to give all possible support to their infantries

The big blunder of Pakistani Generals was to deny their involvement and leave these troops at mercy of Indian even after they managed to captured those strategic points

It may be anything... you can call it a stupid military operation...or a war.. or an adventure... but that adventure taught India a good lesson ... Never Trust Pakistan- and it taught Pakistan a lesson- Not every Infantile megalomaniac can win you Kashmir.

 

[deckingraj]

The whole idea of kargil was to internationalize and sensationalize the kashmir issue as to bring India to the table. They were expecting the conflict to widen and show case it as nuclear flashpoint. On the one hand they expected to hold back the occupied territory and harass the supply roads if every thing else fails. But on the contrary India never crossed the line as such conflict became localized. They dint get the excuse they were looking for.

Further more they shot themselves in the foot by claiming intruders were terrorists( aka freedom fighers) and are not pakistan regulars. This meant India can continue rooting them out without any explicit opposition from pakistan as international community firmly stood behind India . Pakistan looked more like thief stung by a scorpion they could neither help their own men nor could internationalize the issue. The whole plan fell flat on its face.

your first bold point is well taken...have always been the case however your second bold point is what i have my problems with....As said earlier Vajpayee went to Lahore in a historic trip...so India was already on table....no??

Your third bold point is again not going well with me. It is not well documented that PAF, PN were not in loop while planning kargil...how was Mushy planning to carry on the conflict should the conflict widen??

The only thing i can make out of it is Mushy ego but again this is me speculating...

Read my comment again, I meant that the nuke tests by pakistan forced india too talk and lead to the rendezvous in lahore.

sure..then what was the reason of kargil...throw some light on that as well..

 

[atomix]

PAF, PN were not in loop while planning kargil.

It was the same case in 1965 when only army infiltrated into kashmir while airforce & navy caught up later. If they had used their PAF then it would have been crystal clear to International community that pakistan is backing up the intruders.
More ever as India dint cross the LOC pakistan airforce could not get a valid excuse to come into the fight.

Pakistan military planners know how to start a war but never to end it.

 

[deckingraj]

It was the same case in 1965 when only army infiltrated into kashmir while airforce & navy caught up later. If they had used their PAF then it would have been crystal clear to International community that pakistan is backing up the intruders.
More ever as India dint cross the LOC pakistan airforce could not get a valid excuse to come into the fight.

Pakistan military planners know how to start a war but never to end it.

Look this is where things fly like thin air...International community were fully aware about PA involvement...secondly in 65 PAF/PN were not in loop because generals there were of the opinion that India will not take the conflict to IB....so even though it was stupid to think that way yet i can make sense out of why PAF/PN would have not been taken into full confidence...however here you are saying that they wanted conflict to move into IB and yet didn't inform PAF/PN...this is not only stupid but defy any logic....no??

So is Pakistan... your point is?


It may be anything... you can call it a stupid military operation...or a war.. or an adventure... but that adventure taught India a good lesson ... Never Trust Pakistan- and it taught Pakistan a lesson- Not every Infantile megalomaniac can win you Kashmir.

well it was plain complacency and massive intelligence failure on our side...we never trusted Pakistan and still don't...however some idiot thought that with nukes on both sides there is zero chance of a conflict...and Pakistan showed us how a limited conflict is still possible....India learned this valuable lesson...that complemented with failure of Operation Parakram gave birth to infamaous Cold Start Doctrine...

 

[Myth_buster_1]

Did Pakistan achieve its objective... NO... so India won.

Pakistan despite being outnumbered by IA which also had air support still managed to occupy Indian territory for few months... lol...

 

[atomix]

so even though it was stupid to think that way yet i can make sense out of why PAF/PN would have not been taken into full confidence...however here you are saying that they wanted conflict to move into IB and yet didn't inform PAF/PN...this is not only stupid but defy any logic....no??

One of them would be that any activity by PAF/PN would give away the whole intrusion(remember siachen). only pakistan military can answer the second part of the question.
For some there is method in madness for others madness itself is a method. Most of their military adventures are defy all the conventional logic.

 

[deckingraj]

Pakistan despite being outnumbered by IA which also had air support still managed to occupy Indian territory for few months... lol...

.... however we finally did vacate them...not let's look at our neighbors...they claim Siachen...tried multiple times and failed...thereby finally concluding that it cannot be won...now you might there as well...but then one has to realize that these are mountain warfare...so what we achieved in Kargil is nothing but splendid job done by our boys...but then who can explain trolls

 

[atomix]

Pakistan despite being outnumbered by IA which also had air support still managed to occupy Indian territory for few months... lol...

True but they held the heights and it was not plains rt? Pakistan did not fight like a conventional army but more as a guerrilla force once their supply lines were destroyed.

 

[deckingraj]

One of them would be that any activity by PAF/PN would give away the whole intrusion(remember siachen). only pakistan military can answer the second part of the question.
For some there is method in madness for others madness itself is a method. Most of their military adventures are defy all the conventional logic.

that's why i am saying the conclusion that they wanted conflict to reach IB is more of a myth...unless you have some links/source to back up your claim...what say??

 

[atomix]

.... however we finally did vacate them...not let's look at our neighbors...they claim Siachen...tried multiple times and failed...thereby finally concluding that it cannot be won...now you might there as well...but then one has to realize that these are mountain warfare...so what we achieved in Kargil is nothing but splendid job done by our boys...but then who can explain trolls : disagree:

Agreed compared to kargil, Siachen is still with us overlooking karkoram highway.