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Justice Done Stop Crying

lem34

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I am surprised this morning that some of you have regretted the decision by the SC to remove the PM.

For those that are bleating I think you need reminding of a few things.

1. Parliament is supreme and the power has been bestowed on it by the people that is what gives parliament the right and legitimacy to govern.

2. Parliament can change the constitution you simply need two thirds of both houses (NA and Senate) to agree.

3. Currently we have a constitution that provides for a separation of powers.

4. Parliament is there to make laws

5. Supreme Courts job is to interpret Laws and make judgements.



If as some of you bleating that the Judiciary have gone beyond their remit prove it? Show us the evidence. Not just I got a feeling bollocks.

You want a criminal as a PM vote in elections. Command a majority in Parliament pass the law.

If you want to rein in and change the status of the judiciary go do it. If there is support in the country for that people will vote for it. In any event the constitution provides procedure for that. That is what democracy is about.

My personal opinion is that I think we need SC to keep making the judgements and getting rid of crooks.

You want to cry and bleat come on here take this as an invitation to discuss your problems. I personally will put you on the right track and provide effective corrective therapy for you.
 
I am surprised this morning that some of you have regretted the decision by the SC to remove the PM.

For those that are bleating I think you need reminding of a few things.

1. Parliament is supreme and the power has been bestowed on it by the people that is what gives parliament the right and legitimacy to govern.

2. Parliament can change the constitution you simply need two thirds of both houses (NA and Senate) to agree.

3. Currently we have a constitution that provides for a separation of powers.

4. Parliament is there to make laws

5. Supreme Courts job is to interpret Laws and make judgements.



If as some of you bleating that the Judiciary have gone beyond their remit prove it? Show us the evidence. Not just I got a feeling bollocks.

You want a criminal as a PM vote in elections. Command a majority in Parliament pass the law.

If you want to rein in and change the status of the judiciary go do it. If there is support in the country for that people will vote for it. In any event the constitution provides procedure for that. That is what democracy is about.

My personal opinion is that I think we need SC to keep making the judgements and getting rid of crooks.

You want to cry and bleat come on here take this as an invitation to discuss your problems. I personally will put you on the right track and provide effective corrective therapy for you.


Your point 1 is totally wrong.No where in Constitution it is written Parliament is supreme.

"Whereas sovereignty over the entire Universe belongs to Almighty Allah alone, and the authority to be exercised by the people of Pakistan within the limits prescribed by Him is a sacred trust;"

This is what written in constituiton. Now tell me, Allah Almighty has put more emphasize in Quran on what? the Justice or the parliament?
 
[63. Disqualifications for membership of Majlis-e-Shoora (Parliament):

(1) A person shall be disqualified from being elected or chosen as, and from being, a member of the Majlis-e-Shoora (Parliament), if:-

(a) he is of unsound mind and has been so declared by a competent court; or

(b) he is an undischarged insolvent; or

(c) he ceases to be a citizen of Pakistan, or acquires the citizenship of a foreign State; or

(d) he holds an office of profit in the service of Pakistan other than an office declared by law not to disqualify its holder; or

(e) he is in the service of any statutory body or any body which is owned or controlled by the Government or in which the Government has a controlling share or interest; or

(f) being a citizen of Pakistan by virtue of section 14B of the Pakistan Citizenship Act, 1951 (II of 1951), he is for the time being disqualified under any law in force in Azad Jammu and Kashmir from being elected as a member of the Legislative Assembly of Azad Jammu and Kashmir; or

(g) he has been convicted by a court of competent jurisdiction for propagating any opinion, or acting in any manner, prejudicial to the ideology of Pakistan, or the sovereignty, integrity or security of Pakistan, or morality, or the maintenance of public order, or the integrity or independence of the judiciary of Pakistan, or which defames or brings into ridicule the judiciary or the Armed Forces of Pakistan, unless a period of five years has elapsed since his release; or

(h) he has been, on conviction for any offence involving moral turpitude, senteced to imprisonment for a term of not less than two years, unless a period of five years has elapsed since his release; or

(i) he has been dismissed from the service of Pakistan or service of a corporation or office set up or, controlled, by the Federal Government, Provincial Government or a Local Government on the grounds of misconduct, unless a period of five years has elapsed since his dismissal; or

(j) he has been removed or compulsorily retired from the service of Pakistan or service of a corporation or office set up or controlled by the Federal Government, Provincial Government or a Local Government on the ground of misconduct, unless a period of three years has elapsed since his removal or compulsory retirement; or

(k) he has been in the service of Pakistan or of any statutory body or any body which is owned or controlled by the Government or in which the Government has a controlling share or interest, unless a period of two years has elapsed since he ceased to be in such service; or

(l) he, whether by himself or by any person or body of persons in trust for him or for his benefit or on his account or as a member of a Hindu undivided family, has any share or interest in a contract, not being a contract between a cooperative society and Government, for the supply of goods to, or for the execution of any contract or for the performance of any service undertaken by, Governmen
 
Your point 1 is totally wrong.No where in Constitution it is written Parliament is supreme.

"Whereas sovereignty over the entire Universe belongs to Almighty Allah alone, and the authority to be exercised by the people of Pakistan within the limits prescribed by Him is a sacred trust;"

This is what written in constituiton. Now tell me, Allah Almighty has put more emphasize in Quran on what? the Justice or the parliament?

Choose what semantics you wish mate.

Thank you for the post below. But I have noticed that the people who I was hoping to discuss this with ie the ones who do not like what has happened have strangely so far stayed away from this thread

[63. Disqualifications for membership of Majlis-e-Shoora (Parliament):

(1) A person shall be disqualified from being elected or chosen as, and from being, a member of the Majlis-e-Shoora (Parliament), if:-

(a) he is of unsound mind and has been so declared by a competent court; or

(b) he is an undischarged insolvent; or

(c) he ceases to be a citizen of Pakistan, or acquires the citizenship of a foreign State; or

(d) he holds an office of profit in the service of Pakistan other than an office declared by law not to disqualify its holder; or

(e) he is in the service of any statutory body or any body which is owned or controlled by the Government or in which the Government has a controlling share or interest; or

(f) being a citizen of Pakistan by virtue of section 14B of the Pakistan Citizenship Act, 1951 (II of 1951), he is for the time being disqualified under any law in force in Azad Jammu and Kashmir from being elected as a member of the Legislative Assembly of Azad Jammu and Kashmir; or

(g) he has been convicted by a court of competent jurisdiction for propagating any opinion, or acting in any manner, prejudicial to the ideology of Pakistan, or the sovereignty, integrity or security of Pakistan, or morality, or the maintenance of public order, or the integrity or independence of the judiciary of Pakistan, or which defames or brings into ridicule the judiciary or the Armed Forces of Pakistan, unless a period of five years has elapsed since his release; or

(h) he has been, on conviction for any offence involving moral turpitude, senteced to imprisonment for a term of not less than two years, unless a period of five years has elapsed since his release; or

(i) he has been dismissed from the service of Pakistan or service of a corporation or office set up or, controlled, by the Federal Government, Provincial Government or a Local Government on the grounds of misconduct, unless a period of five years has elapsed since his dismissal; or

(j) he has been removed or compulsorily retired from the service of Pakistan or service of a corporation or office set up or controlled by the Federal Government, Provincial Government or a Local Government on the ground of misconduct, unless a period of three years has elapsed since his removal or compulsory retirement; or

(k) he has been in the service of Pakistan or of any statutory body or any body which is owned or controlled by the Government or in which the Government has a controlling share or interest, unless a period of two years has elapsed since he ceased to be in such service; or

(l) he, whether by himself or by any person or body of persons in trust for him or for his benefit or on his account or as a member of a Hindu undivided family, has any share or interest in a contract, not being a contract between a cooperative society and Government, for the supply of goods to, or for the execution of any contract or for the performance of any service undertaken by, Governmen
 
The SC should not be allowed to expel an elected head such as the PM, that should be the presidents job. Contempt is a subjective reason which can be fatwad onto anybody whom the SC chooses even for personal reasons, as we know, this is the cheif justices backhand against those who tried to frame his son. He is corrupt and is in no way trying to bring justice to the people of Pakistan. If what I have said is apocryphal then explain why he did not do away with PM the moment he decided that the NRO was unconstitionoal.
 
The SC should not be allowed to expel an elected head such as the PM, that should be the presidents job. Contempt is a subjective reason which can be fatwad onto anybody whom the SC chooses even for personal reasons, as we know, this is the cheif justices backhand to those who tried to frame his son. He is corrupt and is in no way trying to bring justice to the people of Pakistan. If what I have said is apocryphal then explain why he did not do away with PM the moment he decided that the NRO was unconstitionoal.

Did you not read post 3 kindly provided by mafiya
 
Did you not read post 3 kindly provided by mafiya

Are we not discussing specifically the incident that has taken place? What he has presented will stall all discussion.

Edit: Not to mention it is a whole topic altogether.
 
http://www.pakistantoday.com.pk/2012...isappearances/

SC says FC involved in Baloch disappearances

Agencies *0*13 hours ago * | **
ISLAMABAD*-*The Supreme Court of Pakistan (SC) on Wednesday issued an interim order in the Balochistan missing persons’ and law and order case, holding Frontier Corps (FC) responsible for the disappearances across the province. The three-member bench of the SC headed by Chief Justice Iftikhar Muhammad Chaudhry resumed the hearing in the case on Wednesday. In its interim order, the SC said it was the government’s responsibility to protect the life and property of its people and ordered the recovery the missing persons at all costs. The order stated that the helplessness of Law Enforcement Agencies (LEAs) was against the expectations, while it was also found that the agencies, especially the FC, were involved in disappearances. During the proceedings, Attorney General Irfan Qadir presented the report regarding law and order in Balochistan before the bench. He said following the court’s order, a high-powered joint investigation committee was formed to probe the Balochistan issue. The committee included members of Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) and Military Intelligence (MI) and was headed by Additional IG Police Zahid Mahmood. The committee went to Quetta and investigated the matter from June 8 to 15, the AG said. Justice Jawwad S Khawaja questioned how long Zahid Mahmood remained posted in the province. The attorney general apprised the bench that Zahid Mahmood was never deputed in Balochistan. But the chief justice added that Zahid Mahmood was an officer on special duty (OSD). The court had summoned the defense secretary and Inspector General of Frontier Corps (FC), Major General Obaidullah Khan Khattak, to appear before the bench on Wednesday. On the last date of hearing, the chief justice had ordered to present 138 missing persons before the bench. Advocate General Balochistan Amanullah Kinrani told the court that nine persons had been recovered since the hearing began, while the disappearances in the province had also declined. The court also ordered Defence Secretary Nargis Secretary to order authorities concerned to make sue implementation court orders. The CJ said how come law and order could be restored in the province when the province’s interior minister was himself an absconder.

No sir,
Justice haven't done yet!
It will begain later, when all these traitors(judges, & politicians) will be hanged side by side!
& we the patriotic peoples of pakistan , rejects any dececions by CIA backed croupt Judeges, InShaa allaha PAKARMY, is going to do the justice to CIA backed BLA, & CIA backed justice , & we hope that time, these peoples will not have the time to cry?
 
No sir,
Justice haven't done yet!
It will begain later, when all these traitors(judges, & politicians) will be hanged side by side!
& we the patriotic peoples of pakistan , rejects any dececions by CIA backed croupt Judeges, InShaa allaha PAKARMY, is going to do the justice to CIA backed BLA, & CIA backed justice , & we hope that time, these peoples will not have the time to cry?

I am surprised that we are crossing swords mate I normally agree with you. I prefer Army and or Mush rule to PPP and PNA

But lets not lose site if we can get democracy and the rule of law right that is preferable:

I think the core issue of your argument and worry about SC interfering with security services is addressed very well by Thomas Jefferson who was not only a founding father of America was a US president and the principal author of the United States Declaration of Independence. He wrote to friend,

"A strict observance of the written laws is doubtless one of the high duties of a good citizen, but it is not the highest (emphasis in original). The laws of necessity, of self-preservation, of saving our country, by a scrupulous adherence to written law, would be to lose the law itself, with life, liberty, property and all those who are enjoying them with us: thus absurdly sacrificing the end to the means. . . "


I also invite you to read the following two articles:

Pakistani businessmen decry ISI-bashing
Majyd Aziz


CIA, MOSSAD, MI-6, RAW, and of course, ISI. These are some of the well-known, respected, and feared organizations, generally known as intelligence or secret agencies, and are mandated by their respective governments or charters to undertake designated activities that are crucial for national security and national integrity of their motherland. Over the past many decades, other such agencies have been in the news and most of them have been infamous, not only in their own country, but throughout the world. Russia’s KGB, Shah of Iran’s SAVAK, former East Germany’s STASI, or the vicious gang of Haiti’s ‘Papa Doc’ Duvalier, officially known as MVSN, but contemptuously nicknamed by every Haitian as Tonton Macoutes. Each and every country, and there are 196 countries in the world, has some structured organization that could be termed as an intelligence agency.

What has become synonymous with these secret intelligence organizations is their portrayal in public as tough, conspiratorial, disregard for world protocols, ruthless, knowledgeable, and in many cases, ‘state within a state’. While accusations and proofs do manifest such thinking, the fact is that for these agencies, the primary objective is to protect and secure the nation from external and even internal threats, intrigues, and more importantly attacks in any manner and channel. Therefore, bashing the nation’s intelligence apparatus is in effect undermining the national security and national responsibility.

Over the last few years, a new thinking has developed in certain quarters and this is assuming ominous proportions. Whispers became words, words became print, print became online debates, and these debates resonated from small hamlets in the interior of Pakistan to the capitals of the world. What should have been nipped in the bud, or just gossiped in the parlors, was broadcast all over through the global megaphone. Suddenly, an organization whose prime objective is to ensure national security and to provide all possible intelligence reports and position papers to the armed forces is being unnecessarily compromised and even postings of the hierarchy have become subjects of pros and cons.

The impetus created by a civilian government to what it called bringing the organization under the executive in its fullest sense triggered warning sirens inside the portals of the well-secured enclave in Rawalpindi. A flurry of actions was immediately conducted and the executive backed down, albeit with a bitter taste in the mouth. Although the status quo was, and has been, maintained and the juggernaut in Islamabad’s Aabpara is functioning as before, the hard fact is that a pretty solid dent has been created in its armor. The invulnerable armor of the organization was further attacked in the back when a mischievous but poignantly damaging clause in the much-publicized lollipop from Capitol Hill called Kerry-Lugar-Berman Act desired that this organization be under true civilian authority. Again, the defenders of the nation brought much needed sanity and prevailed upon the residents of the two regal edifices in Margalla to understand the ramifications of this clause as it would not promote democracy but may unpleasantly damage the process of reconciliation and constitutional authority.

Ever since these externally initiated dents, pointing fingers towards Aabpara has become a favorite pastime for many who exert influence in this country. The self-styled liberals have joined in as a chorus and further exacerbated the situation without comprehending the sensitivity and insight of safeguarding the national strategic assets. Ironically, taking due course to the immortal words of President Harry Truman that “the buck stops here”, the focus has been on the decisions and actions of those who skippered the sensitive organization. The background of these actions has been scrutinized with a bias while opaque glasses are worn to justify the vehement opposition to what transpired behind closed doors.

also read this

18 October, 2011

Manhattan Federal Judge Alvin Hellerstein has declined to hold the CIA in contempt for destroying videos that it had been ordered by the courts to preserve.

The case revolves around 92 videos, depicting hundreds of hours of interrogations of detainees. The tapes allegedly contained evidence of torture, and the CIA was ordered by numerous courts to produce the videos in relation to lawsuits arising from torture allegations. The 9/11 Commission also demanded that the tapes be produced. Instead, the agency destroyed them.

Although the Obama Justice Department had already decided last year that no criminal charges would be filed for this blatant obstruction of justice, Judge Hellerstein’s recent ruling insures that the agency will not even face civil sanctions or so much as a contempt order for willfully breaking the law.

In his ruling, Judge Hellerstein, the very judge who had ordered the CIA to produce the tapes in September of 2004, notes that the agency had instead provided a description of what they say was on the tapes and “implemented new protocols” to insure that they don’t destroy evidence again, so there is no need to hold them accountable in any way.

Judge Hellerstein’s decision is not without precedent.

In 2010, Obama’s Office of Legal Council wrote a memo arguing the legality of Obama’s secret list of assassination targets, a list that apparently includes American citizens who have not been convicted or even charged of a crime. The memo was used as the legal justification for the extrajudicial assassination of Anwar al-Awlaki, a US citizen who the President ordered murdered early last year.

Now, the Obama White House is arguing that they don’t even have to show the justification for ordering the unconstitutional assassination of one of its own citizens.

Still, concerned citizens are attempting to challenge the Obama regime’s power grabs in court.

Earlier this year, Senator Wyden revealed that the federal government has a secret interpretation of the PATRIOT Act that allows the government much more power than is suggested by the wording of the act itself.

When Charlie Savage of the New York Times filed a Freedom of Information Act request for the interpretation, he was denied on the basis that the interpretation is classified.

Last week, Savage and the Times sued the federal government for refusing to release the documents. The case is currently before Judge William Pauley of the US District Court.


The Corbett Report | Courts Rule US Government Above the Law
 
Are we not discussing specifically the incident that has taken place? What he has presented will stall all discussion.

Edit: Not to mention it is a whole topic altogether.

My friend I am happy that there is one less crook in NA. There are avenues available to the PPP through the legislature if they can command sufficient support and rein in the SC
 
My friend I am happy that there is one less crook in NA. There are avenues available to the PPP through the legislature if they can command sufficient support and rein in the SC

Is that not a contradiction, if SC continues sacking members of PPP then to whom will they go for justice, the SC which is already against them? Was not Gilani abiding by the law by not sending a letter which would mean a death sentence to him? How then in the scenario presented could we punish someone for a crime that they have no choice but to do.
 
Is that not a contradiction, if SC continues sacking members of PPP then to whom will they go for justice, the SC which is already against them? Was not Gilani abiding by the law by not sending a letter which would mean a death sentence to him? How then in the scenario presented could we punish someone for a crime that they have no choice but to do.

Sorry mate I do not understand what you mean when you say Was not Gilani abiding by the law by not sending a letter which would mean a death sentence to him?
 
Sorry mate I do not understand what you mean when you say Was not Gilani abiding by the law by not sending a letter which would mean a death sentence to him?

They're is a law that Gilani was going on about, if he sent the letter to swiss banks it would mean treason against the president and he could get a death penalty.
 
ok im sorry Aryan bhai but today i really dont agree with you.

No problem brother. That is why we are here for to discussion. We do not have to apologise because we disagree. Please tell me why you disagree maybe I will learn something I have never suggested that I am always right. I welcome your input
 

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