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JKLF chief comes home with his Pakistani bride

A couple married across the border and we started fighting once again.

I have started falling in love with the way we turn anything into India Vs Pakistan.

Well if you guys get time after fighting please pray for their happy married life.

Anyways wishes from my side to them
 
Arre dude!

Yeh kis duniya ki baatein hain!

Agar Pakistan woh hai joaap bol rahein hain, to Pakistan main Bengal shuru se hi nahi tha kya? Bapkistan would be more like it.

Agar sab kuch itna neatly bata hua tha to itne log jo idhar se udhar hue and vice versa ('47) woh kyun hua. Yeh clear karo.


Indus Valley Civilization




Ghaznavid Empire



876def405b5a0b5dad927d31766a6e34.jpg

Durrani Empire



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Alexander the Great's Empire



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Achaeminid Persian Empire

India and Pakistan (including Indian Occupied Kashmir) were never one country before the British ruled us.




 
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lamayuru !! you havent commented on any of my posts nor that of "AgnosticMuslim" But you have chosen to avoid the obvious and pursue a line of obvious trolling in bad taste even after I said

:disagree:

Answer my posts DUDE or just leave it at that here and now...

No senseless and un-necessary bitterness !! :tup:

Can you please collate everything you want answered (from yourself and AM) and post it together. If you smell baits from me, that was because janaab shuru to aap hi ne kiya tha na? Title change BS ki nahi?
 

Can you point me to the right source ? Where have you collected your information from? I mean some text to accompany all the maps would be good.
 
Can you point me to the right source ? Where have you collected your information from? I mean some text to accompany all the maps would be good.

Just google each of these empires and click images, you'll see the maps for each empire.
 
already visited 3 times no change i stil beleve in pakistan i visit until now 7 countryes and have plan next year to india for company employes interview :partay:

lage raho yaar eventually all must come to the same conclusion. For how long can you continue to live in the delusion that you are Alexander the Great's sons, when he didn't give two hoots about how many of your ancestors friends died battling for his super ego. Abhi to aisa hai ki far from conquering new lands you are trying to homogenize Sindhi, Baluchi, Pathan and an overly dominating Punjabi community.
 
lage raho yaar eventually all must come to the same conclusion. For how long can you continue to live in the delusion that you are Alexander the Great's sons, when he didn't give two hoots about how many of your ancestors friends died battling for his super ego. Abhi to aisa hai ki far from conquering new lands you are trying to homogenize Sindhi, Baluchi, Pathan and an overly dominating Punjabi community.

now you eat your words :woot: ok india pakistan unity :hang2: on this forum now carry on :lazy:
 
I hate to say this but pursuing this thread is useless .......it was started out good probably with good intention but has ended as a bad case of acute generalized fulminent Trolling.

^@ "Imran Khan" and "Omar Bhai" , :wave: lets give the OP some time to peruse all the relevant neutral and un biased info about Kashmir as has been posted by "Agnostic", "Omar" and myself :tup:


PS: Good wishes to my Indian Bro! :) I hope prejudice doesnt block the way to enlightenment :agree:
 
This is going to be painful. But I will head out to the wiki & get back to you in a bit.

Harappa/Indus Valley was a bronze age civilization (3000-1200 BC)
Ref: Indus Valley Civilization - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Look at the section titled Religion.

In view of the large number of figurines[50] found in the Indus valley, it has been widely suggested that the Harappan people worshipped a Mother goddess symbolizing fertility. However, this view has been disputed by S. Clark.[51] Some Indus valley seals show swastikas which are found in later religions and mythologies, especially in Indian religions such as Hinduism and Jainism. The earliest evidence for elements of Hinduism are present before and during the early Harappan period[52][53]. Phallic symbols resembling the Hindu Siva lingam have been found in the Harappan remains.[54][55]

Many Indus valley seals show animals. One famous seal shows a figure seated in a posture reminiscent of the Lotus position and surrounded by animals was named after Pashupati (lord of cattle), an epithet of Shiva and Rudra.[56][57].[58]

In the earlier phases of their culture, the Harappans buried their dead; however, later, especially in the Cemetery H culture of the late Harrapan period, they also cremated their dead and buried the ashes in burial urns, a transition notably also alluded to in the Rigveda, where the forefathers "both cremated (agnidagdhá-) and uncremated (ánagnidagdha-)" are invoked (RV 10.15.14).

My 2 cents: Indus valley started out as Hindu, obviously why Sindh and India got its name from Indus.
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The Persian/Achaemenid Empire, ca 550-330 BC

Lecture Notes: Ancient Civilizations
&
Achaemenid Empire - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Persians adopted Mesopotamian culture and became peaceful farmers. Nonetheless, by the 5th century BC the Achaemenid kings ruled over territories roughly encompassing today's Iran, Iraq, Armenia, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Turkey, Bulgaria, many parts of Greece, Egypt, Syria, Jordan, Palestine, Lebanon, Caucasia, parts of Central Asia, Libya, and northern parts of Arabia.

My 2 cents: This is the largest ancient empire there was, but what trace of their Zoroastrian religion is there in modern day Pakistan? Was modern day Pakistan anything more than a colony to this empire at its peak ie Hinduism probably continued under the Persians as is?
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Alexander the Great 327/326 BC

Alexander the Great - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

My 2 cents: If you read through the article he came, fought Hindu kings, Indian clans, his army mutinied at the prospect of more bloodshed against the Nandas and Gangaridai empires. So his contribution to local culture was minimal (where Kings acquiesced/else he has razed down entire cities). He was only fighting. And he went back with his Army leaving dead men along the way. As a neutral observer, you could say he was just a war monger.
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Ghaznavid Empire/Mahmud of Ghazni 971-1030

Campaigns in the Indian Subcontinent

Following the defeat of the Rajput Confederacy, after deciding to teach them all a lesson for combining against him, discovering that they were rich, and that their temples were great repositories of wealth, Mahmud then set out on regular expeditions against them, leaving the conquered kingdoms in the hands of Hindu vassals annexing only the Punjab region.[1] He also vowed to raid India every year.

Mahmud had already had relationships with the leadership in Balkh through marriage. Its local Emir Abu Nasr Mohammad, offered his services to the Sultan and his daughter to Mahmud's son, Muhammad. After Nasr's death Mahmud brought Balkh under his leadership. This alliance greatly helped him during his expeditions into Northern India.

The Indian kingdoms of Nagarkot, Thanesar, Kannauj, Gwalior, and Ujjain were all conquered and left in the hands of Hindu, Jain and Buddhist Kings as vassal states and he was pragmatic enough not to shirk making alliances and enlisting local peoples into his armies at all ranks.

The later invasions of Mahmud were specifically directed to temple towns as Indian temples were depositories of great wealth and the Economic and Ideological Centers of Gravity for the Hindus, Destroying them would destroy the will power of the Hindus attacking the Empire since Mahmud never kept a permanent prescience in the Subcontinent; Nagarkot, Thanesar, Mathura, Kanauj, Kalinjar and Somnath were all thus raided. Mahmud's armies stripped the temples of their wealth and then destroyed them at Varanasi, Ujjain, Maheshwar, Jwalamukhi, Narunkot and Dwarka. During the period of Mahmud invasion, the Sindhi Swarankar Community and other Hindus who escaped conversion fled from Sindh to escape sectarian violence, and settled in various villages in the district of Kutch, in modern-day Gujarat, India.

Selective Battle Timeline
* 1001: Gandhara: Sultan Mahmud defeats Jayapala at Peshawar and Jayapala abdicates and commits suicide.
* 1002: Seistan: Imprisoned Khuluf
* 1004: Bhatia annexed after it fails to pay its yearly tribute.
* 1005: Multan revolts under Abul Fatah Dawood who enlists the aid of Anandapala. Defeated at Peshawar and pursued to Sodra (Wazirabad). Ghur captured. Appoints Sewakpal to administer the region. Anandapala flees to Kashmir, takes refuge in the Lohara[citation needed] fort in the hills on the western border of Kashmir.
* 1008: Mahmud defeats the Rajput Confederacy (Ujjain, Gwalior, Kalinjar, Kannauj, Delhi, and Ajmer) in battle between Und and Peshawar, and captures the Shahi treasury at Kangra in modern-day Himachal Pradesh.
* 1010: Ghur; against Mohammad ibn Sur
* 1010: Multan revolts. Abul Fatah Dawood imprisoned for life at Ghazni.
* 1011: Thanesar
* 1013: Bulnat: Defeats Trilochanpala.
* 1015: Ghaznis expedition to Kashmir fails. Fails to take the Lohara[citation needed] fort at Lokote in the hills leading up to the valley from the west.
* 1017: Kannauj, Meerut, and Muhavun on the Yamuna, Mathura and various other regions along the route. While moving through Kashmir, he levies troops from the vassal prince for his onward march. Kannauj and Meerut submit without a fight.
* 1021: Kalinjar attacks Kannauj: he marches to their aid and finds the last Shahi King Trilochanpala encamped as well. No battle, the opponents leave their baggage trains and withdraw from the field. Also fails to take the fort of Lokote again. Takes Lahore on his return. Trilochanpala flees to Ajmer. First Muslim governors appointed east of the Indus River.
* 1023: Lahore, Kalinjar, Gwalior: No battles, exacts tribute. Trilochanpala, the grandson of Jayapala is assassinated by his own troops. Official annexation of Punjab by Ghazni. Also fails to take the Lohara fort on the western border of Kashmir for the second time.
* 1024: Ajmer, Nehrwala, Kathiawar: This raid was his last major campaign. The concentration of wealth at Somnath was renowned, and consequently it became an attractive target for Mahmud, as it had previously deterred most invaders. The temple and citadel were sacked, and most of its defenders massacred.
* 1024: Somnath: Mahmud sacked the temple and is reported to have personally hammered the temple's gilded Lingam to pieces and the stone fragments were carted back to Ghazni, where they were incorporated into the steps of the city's new Jama Masjid (Friday Mosque) in 1026. He placed a new king on the throne in Gujarat as a tributary and took the old one to Ghazni as a prisoner. His return detoured across the Thar Desert to avoid the armies of Ajmer and other allies on his return.
* 1025: Marched against the Jats of the Jood mountains who harried his army on its return from the sack of Somnath.

My 2 cents: Ghazni is in present day Afghanistan. So he was an outsider for people of present day Pakistan/India. Do you have any evidence of any buildings of any magnitude he built in Pakistan, or ever thought of it as home? Or his intent there too was only marauding? Also since he was ruthless it is easy to conclude that people converted to Islam under duress/at sword point.
Also, up until this point Raja Jayapala of the Hindu Shahi Dynasty was ruling over Lahore and Kashmir. His son Anandapala succeeded him and continued the struggle, assembling a powerful confederacy which was defeated once more at Lahore in 1008 bringing Mahmud control of the Hindu Shahi dominions of Updhanpura.
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Ghorid Empire/Muhammad of Ghor 1162-1206

Beginning in the mid 1100s, Ghor expressed its independence from the Ghaznavid Empire.

Ghurids were a Persianate and Sunni Muslim dynasty in Khorasan, (modern day Afghanistan) most likely of Eastern Iranian Tajik[1][2] origin. The Ghurid empire was based in the region of Ghor (now a province of modern Afghanistan), and stretched over a vast area that included the whole of Afghanistan, parts of modern Iran and South Asia (India and Pakistan). They were bounded to Ghaznavids and Seljuks almost 150 years before 1148. Between 1175 and 1192, under the leadership of Muhammad of Ghor the Ghurids put an end to Ghaznavid rule in India. They also captured their base in Lahore and founded the second Islamic state in India called the Ghurid state

After defeating Prithvīrāj Chauhān, Muḥammad Ghorī quickly established Ghorid control in northern and central India. Muḥammad Ghorī returned west to Ghaznā to deal with the threat to his western frontiers from the unrest in Iran, but he appointed Qutb-ud-din Aybak as his regional governor for northern India. His armies, mostly under Turkish generals, continued to advance through northern India, raiding as far east as Bengal. Aybak sacked Ayodhya in 1193, followed by his conquest of Delhi. In 1204, after becoming sultan, Muhammad Ghori defeated the advance of Muḥammad II of Khwārezm. Qutb-ud-din Aybak's protégé Muhammad bin Bakhtiyar Khalji had been appointed as a general by Muhammad of Ghor in 1203, and in 1204 he helped defeat the army of Lakshman Sen of the Sena Dynasty,[citation needed] but Ghori failed to conquer Bengal. In 1206, a rebellion rose in Punjab. Muḥammad Ghorī returned to India and crushed the rebels, but was assassinated on his way back to Ghaznā.[9]

The most profound effect of Ghorī's victory was the establishment of Muslim rule in India which would last for centuries and have great impact on life and culture of South Asia for centuries. Muḥammad Ghorī further expressed his intentions of promoting Islam in India; however, he died before he could extend his conquests further.

Upon his death, Quṭbuddīn Aybak, a capable general who had become Muḥammad Ghorī's closest advisor, kept control of the Indian conquests and declared himself the first Sultan of Delhi thus establishing the Sultanate of Delhi in 1206.

My 2 cents: Malabar (present day Kerala) is where Islam first took hold in the entire subcontinent, not by blade but by trade. Arab-Mallu trade. Arab traders used to visit the Malabar region, which was a link between them and ports of South East Asia, to trade even before Islam had been established in Arabia.

Islam in India - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

So ethnically there is nothing to show that people of present day Pakistan are any different from the rest.
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Delhi Sultanate 1206-1527
The Mamluk dynasty (1206-90), the Khilji dynasty (1290-1320), the Tughlaq dynasty (1320-1413), the Sayyid dynasty (1414-51), and the Lodhi dynasty (1451-1526).

The Sultanate ushered in a period of Indian cultural renaissance. The resulting "Indo-Muslim" fusion left lasting monuments in architecture, music, literature, and religion.
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Mughals 1526-1707

The last Lodhi ruler, Ibrahim Lodhi was greatly disliked in his court and subjects alike. He was overly ambitious. Thus, governor of Punjab- Daulat Khan and his uncle, Alam Khan sent an invitation to Babur, the ruler of Kabul, to conquer Delhi.

The first Battle of Panipat(April 1526) was fought between the forces of Babur and Delhi Sultanate. Ibrahim Lodhi was killed in the battleground. By way of superior generalship, vast experience in warfare, effective strategy and appropriate use of artillery, Babur won the First battle of Panipat and occupied Agra and Delhi. He set the foundation of the Mughal dynasty which was to rule India for another 300 years.

The Mughal Emperors were descendants of the Timurids, and at the height of their power around 1700, they controlled most of the Indian Subcontinent — extending from Bengal in the east to Balochistan in the west, Kashmir in the north to the Kaveri basin in the south
The "classic period" of the Empire started with the accession of Jalaluddin Mohammad Akbar, better known as Akbar the Great, in 1556. It ended with the death of Emperor Aurangzeb in 1707,

My 2 cents: Islam spread forcibly to a large extent under Aurangzeb (other Mughals were more into arts, Akbar was trying out his own new experiment in religion with Din-e-Ilahi & before him there were too many battles to get busy converting). His religious zeal for conversion gave rise to fighting Marathas and the Sikhs before British arrived on the subcontinent.

There are clearly different types of Muslims in the subcontinent. Ones that converted under sword, ones that converted to avoid jaziya and those that were the paraphernalia (soldiers & servants) of Afghani/Mongol Kings.
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So how am I wrong in concluding that your contention is just eye wash? There were periods of Hindu rule over present day Pakistan too, which is why you had the mess at partition. Hindus must have been rich all through to have survived so many Muslim rulers by paying their taxes, until 1947 that is.
I think it boils down to defending your faith of the day & looking up to contemporary luminaries in the Muslim world like Allama Iqbal.
If Jinnah & Nehru had been amicable and Iqbal not felt compelled by a revivalistic sentiment, he may not have coined the idea of Pakistan.
Also given this gloated sense of history I am curious, how do you treat Mohajirs in Pakistan?
 
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^ Theres an entire thread dedicated to the Indus Valley Civilization in the Military Section. http://www.defence.pk/forums/military-history/7650-ancient-history-not-appreciated-pakistanis.html

The Indus river flows from KASHMIR into PAKISTAN. The British saw the Indus river flowing and made a name for their empire, you guys kept the name the British gave you, we came up with names for our country and our people.

The point of the maps is to show that throughout history the region of Pakistan was different from the vast majority of the region of India.
 
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Harappa/Indus Valley was a bronze age civilization
Ref: Indus Valley Civilization - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Look at the section titled Religion. So Indus valley started out as Hindu, obviously why Sindh and India got its name from Indus.

In view of the large number of figurines[50] found in the Indus valley, it has been widely suggested that the Harappan people worshipped a Mother goddess symbolizing fertility. However, this view has been disputed by S. Clark.[51] Some Indus valley seals show swastikas which are found in later religions and mythologies, especially in Indian religions such as Hinduism and Jainism. The earliest evidence for elements of Hinduism are present before and during the early Harappan period[52][53]. Phallic symbols resembling the Hindu Siva lingam have been found in the Harappan remains.[54][55]

Many Indus valley seals show animals. One famous seal shows a figure seated in a posture reminiscent of the Lotus position and surrounded by animals was named after Pashupati (lord of cattle), an epithet of Shiva and Rudra.[56][57].[58]

In the earlier phases of their culture, the Harappans buried their dead; however, later, especially in the Cemetery H culture of the late Harrapan period, they also cremated their dead and buried the ashes in burial urns, a transition notably also alluded to in the Rigveda, where the forefathers "both cremated (agnidagdhá-) and uncremated (ánagnidagdha-)" are invoked (RV 10.15.14).

Besides Islam was not born yet.

Regardless of when Islam arrived in Pakistan, this is Pakistani history. Besides, Indus Valley was certainly not Hindu or anything close. Its a bit pointless to argue this when you define Hinduism as anything that isnt Islam.

India got named by the British, from the Indus river. People of India are not from the Indus. Hence the decision to keep the name India in 1947 was flawed and delusional.

83b82fc91900b8296b8de7a5d2da2f4e.jpg

9e1e0a37cfda15dc54757dd89ad70837.gif
 
Regardless of when Islam arrived in Pakistan, this is Pakistani history. Besides, Indus Valley was certainly not Hindu or anything close. Its a bit pointless to argue this when you define Hinduism as anything that isnt Islam.

India got named by the British, from the Indus river. People of India are not from the Indus. Hence the decision to keep the name India in 1947 was flawed and delusional.

83b82fc91900b8296b8de7a5d2da2f4e.jpg

9e1e0a37cfda15dc54757dd89ad70837.gif

Omair gave me the link. I am only posting what I read from there. There were Hindu Gods in the ruins of this civilization. Look up the article for your own self if you dont believe me. I am shamelessly copy pasting without crediting the source.
 
^ Theres an entire thread dedicated to the Indus Valley Civilization in the Military Section. http://www.defence.pk/forums/military-history/7650-ancient-history-not-appreciated-pakistanis.html

The Indus river flows from KASHMIR into PAKISTAN. The British saw the Indus river flowing and made a name for their empire, you guys kept the name the British gave you, we came up with names for our country and our people.

The point of the maps is to show that throughout history the region of Pakistan and the vast majority of the region of India were different.


I am still rummaging through the immense amount of links you posted earlier.. will update that single post with everything I can find. There are just too many ******** rulers at different times for modern day Pakistan to be called a different people since the people remained largely same, only rulers kept changing and people kept changing loyalties.

British did not name us India. The company that entered India from Bengal was East India Company. Dont you think it was a case of us naming them? India was named India/Hindustan faaar long back. Infact the Chinese which is an even older civilization calls us yindu. So yindu, hindu, india, indus, sindh all sound like emanating from the same phonetic root.

Amerigo Vespucci was looking for an alternate route to India wasn't he? So India as a name and land of riches was well established. Native Americans to this day are called American Indians.
 
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