Jinnah VS A.Kalam Azad

[Omar1984]

Azad like most indian "muslims" would rather kiss the feet of hindus than side with a Muslim from their neighboring country to the North-west.

Thank you Quaid-e-Azam for Pakistan.

Pakistan Zindabad.

 

[Bang Galore]

Azad like most indian "muslims" would rather kiss the feet of hindus than side with a Muslim from their neighboring country to the North-west.

Thank you Quaid-e-Azam for Pakistan.

Pakistan Zindabad.

Every time I see a post of yours, I say the same thing too.

"Thank you Quaid-e-Azam for Pakistan."

 

[Porus]

He taught you a lesson like his predecessors that you guys are just all talk, stopped you in your tracks and gave you a reality check, he was no bandit anyone that beats you guys is a barbarian or a bandit.

One guy's bandit is other guy's king. This is a dog-eat-dog world, the powerful comes and takes away by force whatever he likes to have and all the weakling can do is cursing and moaning but, as soon as the weakling becomes stronger he treats others the same way and to justify his plunder, rape, torture and loot he calls it his revenge. A bitter reality.

 

[third eye]

What I read in post No 1 is simply an exchange between two matured men who had their own points of view.

With no disrespect meant I can hardly see any maturity in most of the posts thereafter.

Lastly, if Azad had his own POV I find the reply to his telegram to be a " If you are not with me, you are against me' sort of reply.

 

[Vinod2070]

One must remember that 64 years since Pakistan & India's independence, Pakistan has been doing better than India in 45+ years in all socioeconomic, development indicators. Even today, despite being in the forefront on the WOT, Pakistan is doing better than India in many socioeconomic indicators. Where Pakistan is today is not because of what Jinnah envisaged for Pakistan, but because Pakistan did completely opposite of that.

Bhai, leave us alone.

Don't compare! We are fed up. We have nothing to do with each other now.

Just move on.

 

[Omar1984]

Bhai, leave us alone.

Don't compare! We are fed up. We have nothing to do with each other now.

Just move on.

Give the same advice to your fellow indians who are obsessed about Pakistan.

We Pakistanis have nothing to do with india or indians or indian "muslims"

So just move on and leave us alone.

 

[fd24]

Bhai, leave us alone.

Don't compare! We are fed up. We have nothing to do with each other now.

Just move on.

We have moved on Vinod - we are on PDF debating. The infatuation and fascination is with respect the other way round. This thread is the ultimate example of the "Indian obsession".
Reading the posts earlier on the span of Indian logic is truly widespread - even finding it necessary to bring in 1971.
We have certainly moved on and trust me judging be some Indian posts - its obvious the in depth obsession they have is stronger than ever with our nation.

 

[LURKER]

The minorities are increasing because the majority has increased exponentially at the same time.
They simply had more kids.. quite simple to guess... the same is why Muslims in India grew.. they just made more kids.

Not sure how that is relavent..
FYI ..Islamic republic vs Secular republic.

in 71 Bangladeshis were killed.. simple as that. Muslims and Hindus.. off course your country used the Hindu card to create more Hindu militants.. so basically India made sure more Hindus were killed..

Yes Pakistan has.. its an Islamic republic under Mullah's.. not Jinnah's vision anyway.

No.. He was too busy trying to croon the Vande Mataram more than his neighbors.. while the other party members stick to their normal expression of party language and banners.. his must include an Indian flag to prove loyalty... as do all other Muslim candidates.. Kind of funny as to how he has to be more Indian than the average Indian.. most of his cousins are living in much larger properties.. enjoying the good life...who.. did not actually migrate in 47..
they came in around the 50's and 60's.. after they saw that India wasnt delivering on its promises.
Perhaps this family is only anomaly .. while other Muslims have prospered?
But apart fromt the fact that Lucknow is a really shitty place.. I found very little prosperity in that Muslim majority.
And here is the even weirder stuff.. this family.. this household.. were extreme supporters of congress and Nehru.
My great grandfather was a close friend of Mr Nehru.. those who could walk into the PM's office.
Ran a daily urdu back then.. which eventually closed down...
Now if these people.. who were part of those that rooted for India... end up like this..
Something is going wrong then..

Your(and apparently others) whole tirade is on why I as a Pakistan am not qualified to speak..rather than actually giving me say a link to reports of Muslims Financial status on average.. representaion.. etc.

"you cant talk about us since you are in the shitter too"
And thats it.. that's all you got?

UP as a whole is a backward state so its not just muslims who are backward.
as for your 'lucknow is a really shityy place' have you ever been to lucknow or your uncle phoned you and told you.
I dont know what high standards pakistan has set for its cities but i find lucknow a perfectly fine Tier 2 city with decent roads,no power cuts,24 hr water supply,no slums,no sectarian violence(yes there are large no. of shias and sunnis), no bomb blasts,no gun violence etc etc.
lucknow has a large muslim population. some of the most prominent and richest businessmen are muslims. my dad's previous boss was a muslim(GM of UP)he works in a govt dept.
visit the place some some time and see the ground reality.

 

[notsuperstitious]

No point debating this ancient stuff, Pakistan and India are different countries going to different places, thats not just a fact is also our common wish.

All I would ask mods here is to not allow insulting India's national heroes the way you would not allow insults to jinnah. Azad was our hero, he played in great part in building india's education system, he gave hope to the left behind muslims who were without leadership as most educated muslims left for pakistan (surely even the most rabid ones of you know that all Indian muslims could not have moved to pakistan, right?) .Stop abusing indian muslims too, its tough for them having to carry the baggage of partition, tough that their entire middle class, leadership left them and moved to pakistan, its noble that they live in the land of their ancestors and try to make the best they can and make their motherland proud.

We have moved on Vinod - we are on PDF debating. The infatuation and fascination is with respect the other way round. This thread is the ultimate example of the "Indian obsession".
Reading the posts earlier on the span of Indian logic is truly widespread - even finding it necessary to bring in 1971.
We have certainly moved on and trust me judging be some Indian posts - its obvious the in depth obsession they have is stronger than ever with our nation.

Superkaif, I came to this ''defence'' forum not out of obsession, I joined after 10 obsessed pakistan showed up in my home city, I joined to find out the other side, to understand, to exchange, to read about defence tech...

Not to listen to abuse of our national heroes, religion or our muslims just because they love their own country. Calling it obsession is plain whining and should be taken up with the forum owners. They can stop it, if it makes sense.

 

[hotaki]

Azad or no Azad, British took over the land that was governed by the mughals, they named it British India, they ruled it for 200 years and as they left they gave independence to Pakistan and what was to become India.

Pakistan gained its independence first and India a day later, Mr Azad and his kind chose their fate and place in history and so did jinnah.

Jinnah wasn't the only person fighting for Pakistan, great like choudry rehmat are brushed under the carpet, being with Pakistan doesn't mean being with jinnah.

My love and loyalty for Pakistan is not because of jinnah as i have my own quaid, people wanted Pakistan and jinnah succeeded if people didn't want it would never happened.

Mr azad i hope can see his people being discriminated against, their place of worships destroyed, houses burnt, men and women set on fire, labelled as dalit converts non martial race. If he saw that he would have changed his name from azad to ghulam.

 

[lem34]

Firstly, define "secular". That's an attribute of the state & not of individuals. Individual failures cannot be necessarily held up as the failure of the basic model. There is nothing in the Indian constitution which inherently discriminates against minorities of any type.

There is only one definition of secular. Go google it. That should give you a good idea. Do not get me wrong your Constitution and laws are of a secular nature. The issue is that they are not enforced and this is backed up by statistics and figures from Indianagencies along with UN statistics.

Let me give you an example your parliament can pass a law and say that London is an integral part of India. Thereafter you can all state that is the case but it does not make it so.

You will note I did not say Muslims I said minorities in India. These minorities combined actually are in excess of 40%. They have not been able to enforce their rights after more than 60 years after partition.

I stated that I had data from today from Indian and independent agencies which if available to Mr Azad and Mr Jinnah pre partition would vindicate Mr Jinnah and Mr Azad would have agreed with Mr Jinnah. The only reason that I do not place it here in front of you is because in the past when I have done so some of your brethren on this site would be so upset at the negative aspect that they would take it personally and or against India because it shows India in such a bad light.

In any event you have not argued that the data does not exist but that it will be skewed.

 

[third eye]

Azad or no Azad, British took over the land that was governed by the mughals, they named it British India, they ruled it for 200 years and as they left they gave independence to Pakistan and what was to become India.

Pakistan gained its independence first and India a day later, Mr Azad and his kind chose their fate and place in history and so did jinnah.

Jinnah wasn't the only person fighting for Pakistan, great like choudry rehmat are brushed under the carpet, being with Pakistan doesn't mean being with jinnah.

My love and loyalty for Pakistan is not because of jinnah as i have my own quaid, people wanted Pakistan and jinnah succeeded if people didn't want it would never happened.

Mr azad i hope can see his people being discriminated against, their place of worships destroyed, hoses burnt, men and women set on fire, labelled as dalit converts non martial race. If we saw that he would have changed his name from azad to ghulam.

The part in bold above applies in complete measure to Muslims in Pakistan as well.

Mosques are bombed, houses destroyed, men,women & children killed.. by Muslims themselves !

So, where is the difference ? The larger point is that stupidity of some should not be taken as applicable to all.

The subject @ hand is ' Vs ' situation created by scanning a page from a book showing an exchange among two gents who had their own POV & stood by it.

I feel it should end there.

 

[jahangeer yousaf]

Epic , just EPIC !

Although there is non like Quaid which Pakistan got as a leader but still Quaid earned a lot more respect which i used to give him and A.K Azad earned even more hatred .............
and of course i am one of those who believe in Ghazva-i-Hind...otherwise it was impossible for muslims to gain independence and separate country for themselves and Quaid did it single handedly

 

[Porus]

Bhai, leave us alone.

Don't compare! We are fed up. We have nothing to do with each other now.

Just move on.

A very good reply, this is what I expect from you guys. Now do what you are preaching, leave this Pakistani discussion board forever and never come back.

 

[notsuperstitious]

You represent nether Hindus or Muslims

And yet most the pakistani posters here pretend to represent pakistan, not hindu or muslims or christians or ahmedis or buddhists or parsees of pakistan, but the entire pakistan...

As they should, but not Azad - he could not have represented his nation, he had to represent either hindus or muslims... what kind of intolerant BS is this?

WHY???