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Jinnah VS A.Kalam Azad

Nehru was having an affair with Mountbatten's wife, and Mountbatten knew and didnt mind(sick fellow). He was expecting favours in return ad gave Nehru what he wanted.
Now we can argue our points till the cows come home, but no one will agreeon each other's points.
Suffice to say that we in Pakistan are glad that partiton took place and we are not ruled by Hindus. You indus shouldbe happy that tere are very few muslims left otherwise we would have been a thorn in your side always.
Come up with some evidence and we will talk.

Quaid also possessed a razor sharp intellect and was honest to a fault. Quaid had a brilliant legal mind and a single mindedness of purpose. Judging the personal character from the Islamic point of view such as offering prayers and observing the fast during Ramadan, Mualana Azad would be ahead of the Quaid.
With respect, if Quaid was honest enough there would be a lot of clarity in Pakistan about what he wanted the country to be. All his biographies say he always kept his cards to his chest. Nobody actually knew what the man thought. He was an enigma. He was an Islamist for the mullahs, a secular leader for the liberals. He did not clarify his positions in black and white for fear of losing support.

However he was no doubt a stalwart, few people in the world can be credited with the creation of a state single-handledly.

COMMENT: Maulana Abul Kalam Azad and his legacy — Yasser Latif Hamdani
Azad’s role for two decades after partition was one of the token Congress Muslim ‘show boy’ as Jinnah famously called him

As Pakistan continues to dangle on the brink of failure and India thrives, there are many who have begun to ask whether Maulana Azad, the great Indian leader and Islamic scholar, was right and Quaid-e-Azam Mohammad Ali Jinnah was wrong in those final days of the British Raj. Both Azad and Jinnah were extremely intelligent leaders and were contenders for the leadership of Muslims. The westernised Jinnah managed to win the support of the Muslim masses while the religious scholar, Maulana Azad, was sidelined.

In his autobiography, Azad made a prescient observation about Pakistan breaking into two, which came true of course. There are however, a number of predictions, all seemingly accurate, which are associated with Azad that seem to reinforce further his image as the sage of the age. He is said, amongst other things, to have predicted Pakistan’s dependence on western powers and growing discord between the religious right and liberals in Pakistan in an interview conducted in April 1946. The only problem is that the latter list of predictions has been transmitted to us through a dubious source. This source was Agha Shorish Kashmiri, a committed Ahrari leader who opposed the creation of Pakistan (and ironically, played an important role in fomenting sectarian trouble against Ahmadis and Shias in Pakistan). No one other than Kashmiri seems to have seen a record of this interview and there is no primary source to confirm this interview. The said interview does not appear in any of Azad’s papers or in any record of his life as preserved in India. In the view of this writer therefore, that interview was a concoction and a distortion invented by Agha Shorish Kashmiri in the 1970s when he wrote an Urdu biography of Azad. TV shows like Khabarnaak have recently referenced these predictions and the myth therefore, is now fully under way as being accepted as the gospel truth.

What is equally bothersome about this attempt to re-invent Azad as a latter day Nostradamus, staring into his crystal bowl and predicting the future is that it completely disregards his own role in the first five decades of the 20th century. The Khilafat Movement brought Azad, who was a well-respected Islamic scholar in Sunni circles, into prominence, where he used fiery Islamic rhetoric to galvanise the religious Muslim masses behind the movement to save the Caliphate in Turkey. Mahatma Gandhi and other Hindu leaders who, naively, assumed that deploying the abrasive theocratic logic of the Caliphate could somehow paradoxically bring Hindus and Muslims together on one platform, supported this movement. Azad repeatedly denounced the Aligarh school and chastised Muslims for following the timid and pro-western ways of Sir Syed Ahmad Khan, when Islam was a complete code of life. He also gave the famous fatwa for Hijrat, which declared that India under British rule was Dar-ul-Harb and that it was the religious duty of every Muslim to either resist the government or migrate to Afghanistan. It is noteworthy that Jinnah repeatedly warned Gandhi to stay away from this pseudo-religious approach, which would ultimately divide Hindus and Muslims as well as Muslims and Muslims. The consequences of the Khilafat Movement and the rhetoric of Azad and Maulana Mohammad Ali were that Muslim professionals left government service and other material benefits of the British rule and were led onto a path of self-destruction. Gandhi, Azad and other leaders of this movement went on to ask even Aligarh University to refuse British patronage (while paradoxically failing to ask the same of Benaras Hindu University). Since the entire movement was built on a theological foundation, i.e. Pan-Islamism, it was bound to turn on itself. The Moplah Muslim uprising in the south completely shattered the façade of Hindu-Muslim unity created by the movement. In retaliation, Hindus started the Shuddhi (which was aimed at re-converting Muslims to Hinduism) and Sanghtan (organising and arming Hindus). In reaction to the Shuddhi and Sanghtan movements, Muslims came up with the Tabligh (propagation of faith) and Tanzeem (organisation) movements. This militant and hostile communal atmosphere laid the foundation for open communal warfare, leading to mass rioting and violence. The Khilafat Movement, which had temporarily united Hindus and Muslims for an illogical cause, rendered religious identities non-negotiable. That Jinnah had predicted this in his letters to Gandhi is a matter of record. Azad’s role for two decades after partition was one of the token Congress Muslim ‘show boy’ as Jinnah famously called him. In his book, India Wins Freedom, Azad blames Jawaharlal Nehru for not coming to an arrangement with the Muslim League after the 1937 elections, completely sidestepping his own role in the horse trading that weakened the Muslim unity board and led to the final break between the Muslim League and the Congress. Similarly, Azad concedes, rightly, that the Cabinet Mission Plan would have kept India united and that Congress was wrong in how it handled the Muslim League in the aftermath of the 1946 elections. It is also true that Azad wrote a letter to Gandhi, which suggested exactly that and which probably caused Azad to lose his place as president of the Congress. However, what Azad forgets is that he publicly justified and remained wedded to Congress’ erroneous interpretation of the groupings clause, which led to the collapse of the Cabinet Mission Plan.

Therefore, the myth of Azad’s prescience is problematic because it papers over facts leading to partition. It is a well-known fact now that Jinnah’s own idea of Pakistan was in a treaty arrangement with India, a sort of a European Union type arrangement, and not of complete partition. In fact, according to Mountbatten, Jinnah had to be forced into accepting partition. Therefore, the Jinnah-Azad binary itself is perhaps a distortion of history and should be avoided in any serious investigation of partition.

The writer is a practising lawyer. He blogs at http://globallegalorum.blogspot and his twitter handle is therealylh

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The point of the writer seems to be that Maulana's ideas and actions through the first half of 1900s contradict what he says in the 'alleged' interview. I don't see any such contradiction.
 
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Yeah...Muslims should not be a minority but Hindus of Bengal & Sikhs of Punjab should have been? Any surprise that they did not care for that particular position? As far as those minorities who remained in Pakistan, they are simply the lost people who for whatever reason made a poor decision & condemned themselves to a second class citizenship constitutionally.



Words really come easy, no one in Pakistan ever took that seriously nor do they do now.


The question was not whether it became bigger or whether someone fought tooth & nail, Certainly not neutral since Jinnah offered a Hindu Raja with Hindu subjects extraordinary terms to join Pakistan - Karachi as a free port, control the railway line to Sindh and all this to get a Hindu populace to be a minority in a Muslim country when Mr. Jinnah proudly refused the reverse? That pretty much mocks anyone talking about what India did in Kashmir. Jinnah tried & failed, India succeeded! That's the difference.



What's ironic? Pakistan tried persuasion & failed, then tried force & failed again. That's all!




A bit rich coming from a Pakistani, whatever happens in India; it is simply not supported by the constitution. Your country institutes constitutional discrimination not only against the minorities but also those who claim to be part of your state religion simply because the majority disagree. You guys simply have no leg to stand on when you point fingers at some incidents in India.

the minorities of Pakistan are doing alright! we have had a few men in our armed forces such as CECIL CHAUDRY & the Harcharan Singh as well as Rana Bhagwan das became our CJ! & let us not forget CAUSJEE(a parsi editor)!

the issue that indians seem to highlight is taliban killing minorities! well guess what talibans blow up bombs in every city killing people of majority & minority sects! they are enemy of the NATION not only minorities!

well i am sorry but never heard of jinnah offering FREE ZONE karachi port & railway lines to JODHPUR if he did please shed some light by posting a legitimate source if not then i guess you are proven wrong.



as for no leeg to stand upon well every minority in india has suffered be it the christians,sikhs or muslims so i am sorry the farce of secularism that you wish to cloak yourself with is just a utopian feel that you wish to believe. kashmiris suffer daily in kashmir that you claim as yours and yet indians turn a blind eye to it and call themselves Secular. is it written in your constitution to oppress the kashmiris?
 
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He was an enigma. He was an Islamist for the mullahs, a secular leader for the liberals. He did not clarify his positions in black and white for fear of losing support.

salute brigadier!!
 
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I have gone through some of this thread. Both were great leaders, both had different visions, since Jinnah's vision came true, it is hard to tell how united India would have turned out. So it is unfair to criticize Azad, as we really have no idea and will never know.

The important thing to realize is that it is time to move on, for both Pakistan and Bangladesh to find their destiny. For Pakistan if it is not with Russia, then with Iran, Turkey and Central Asian states and for Bangladesh with ASEAN.
 
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Pakistan tried to go with Arab and other Islamic countries after 1971.

Let's just say the results were not encouraging. ;)

Anyway, best wishes for the future for finding the destiny outside of the subcontinent. That is the only alternative left anyway, having burnt the bridges.
 
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the minorities of Pakistan are doing alright! we have had a few men in our armed forces such as CECIL CHAUDRY & the Harcharan Singh as well as Rana Bhagwan das became our CJ! & let us not forget CAUSJEE(a parsi editor)!

the issue that indians seem to highlight is taliban killing minorities! well guess what talibans blow up bombs in every city killing people of majority & minority sects! they are enemy of the NATION not only minorities!

well i am sorry but never heard of jinnah offering FREE ZONE karachi port & railway lines to JODHPUR if he did please shed some light by posting a legitimate source if not then i guess you are proven wrong.



as for no leeg to stand upon well every minority in india has suffered be it the christians,sikhs or muslims so i am sorry the farce of secularism that you wish to cloak yourself with is just a utopian feel that you wish to believe. kashmiris suffer daily in kashmir that you claim as yours and yet indians turn a blind eye to it and call themselves Secular. is it written in your constitution to oppress the kashmiris?

The minorities of West Pakistan were almost completely ethnically cleansed with official support right at the time of partition.

The negligibly small population left has been reducing in population share every passing year. They are so negligible now that it is mainly the turn of minority Islamic sects like Ahmedi, Shia, Sufi followers etc. now.

It is incredible that Pakistanis can even speak about minority treatment with genuine secular democracies like India where minorities have full constitutional rights. This in a region full of religious extremism and tyranny for a thousand miles and beyond where no secular democracies exist, only extremism, fanaticism and dictatorships.

Of course we have our challenges, many of them coming from our geography. That doesn't take away from the basic essence of our liberal secular democracy in a sea of backward religious extremism all around us.
 
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The minorities of West Pakistan were almost completely ethnically cleansed with official support right at the time of partition.

The negligibly small population left has been reducing in population share every passing year. They are so negligible now that it is mainly the turn of minority Islamic sects like Ahmedi, Shia, Sufi followers etc. now.

It is incredible that Pakistanis can even speak about minority treatment with genuine secular democracies like India where minorities have full constitutional rights. This in a region full of religious extremism and tyranny for a thousand miles and beyond where no secular democracies exist, only extremism, fanaticism and dictatorships.

Of course we have our challenges, many of them coming from our geography. That doesn't take away from the basic essence of our liberal secular democracy in a sea of backward religious extremism all around us.

:blink: :what:
 
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Pakistan tried to go with Arab and other Islamic countries after 1971.

Let's just say the results were not encouraging. ;)

Anyway, best wishes for the future for finding the destiny outside of the subcontinent. That is the only alternative left anyway, having burnt the bridges.

Despite your fanboyism, Pakistan was actually very successful in manipulating large powers (mostly US) into giving us nice toys and helping us along. Pakistan was the first country to get the F16 and because of us, the US had to export it to other allies as well. Even though they were developing the F20 for export.

As for the future
Well the future lies in east Asia, mostly China, and guess who's good friends with China?
I'll give you a hint, it's not India ;)
 
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Despite your fanboyism, Pakistan was actually very successful in manipulating large powers (mostly US) into giving us nice toys and helping us along. Pakistan was the first country to get the F16 and because of us, the US had to export it to other allies as well. Even though they were developing the F20 for export.

A bit off topic, but you are enjoying the fruits of that "manipulation" till today.

And remember, all the bills have not been paid so far.

As for the future
Well the future lies in east Asia, mostly China, and guess who's good friends with China?
I'll give you a hint, it's not India ;)

So in opposite direction to the Islamic Ummah.

Let me just give you one hint, the majority of the Chinese (along with Japanese and Koreans) have negative perceptions of Muslims and Pakistan.

As one Chinese colonel says on another place: China will fight India to the last Pakistani. That is the extent of their interest in you and no wonder you are happy playing the role.
 
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The minorities of West Pakistan were almost completely ethnically cleansed with official support right at the time of partition.

The negligibly small population left has been reducing in population share every passing year. They are so negligible now that it is mainly the turn of minority Islamic sects like Ahmedi, Shia, Sufi followers etc. now.

It is incredible that Pakistanis can even speak about minority treatment with genuine secular democracies like India where minorities have full constitutional rights. This in a region full of religious extremism and tyranny for a thousand miles and beyond where no secular democracies exist, only extremism, fanaticism and dictatorships.

Of course we have our challenges, many of them coming from our geography. That doesn't take away from the basic essence of our liberal secular democracy in a sea of backward religious extremism all around us.

i like how you live in a utopia. but i guess you forget the treatment of muslims in kashmir done by your indian government.


and your claim of killing of minorties at time of partition well didn't india kill muslims then? and wasn't PATEL blamed for standing by and not doing anything?

secular democratic india where does it exist? surely IN THEORY only!
 
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He is said, amongst other things, to have predicted Pakistan’s dependence on western powers and growing discord between the religious right and liberals in Pakistan in an interview conducted in April 1946. The only problem is that the latter list of predictions has been transmitted to us through a dubious source. This source was Agha Shorish Kashmiri, a committed Ahrari leader who opposed the creation of Pakistan (and ironically, played an important role in fomenting sectarian trouble against Ahmadis and Shias in Pakistan). No one other than Kashmiri seems to have seen a record of this interview and there is no primary source to confirm this interview. The said interview does not appear in any of Azad’s papers or in any record of his life as preserved in India. In the view of this writer therefore, that interview was a concoction and a distortion invented by Agha Shorish Kashmiri in the 1970s when he wrote an Urdu biography of Azad.

Even if we agree that Mr Kashmiri concocted the Azad interview, how did he(Mr Kashmiri) knew about Pakistan's dependence on Western powers and growing discord between liberals and right-wing, way back in 70s?

As far I remember, even in late 80s, Taliban were students, Mujahids were righteous people fight against bloody commies and Hakkani was goodness personified.
 
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i like how you live in a utopia. but i guess you forget the treatment of muslims in kashmir done by your indian government.


and your claim of killing of minorties at time of partition well didn't india kill muslims then? and wasn't PATEL blamed for standing by and not doing anything?

secular democratic india where does it exist? surely IN THEORY only!

Given the way Pakistani ethnically cleansed its own minorities, you have no right to complain at all.

Kashmiris only suffered due to Pakistani sponsored Islamic extremist terror. Now that the terror has been defeated for the most part, things are returning to normal. Really fast.

The population share of Hindus/Sikhs in Pakistan and Muslims in India tells the complete story if one just opens the eyes.

There is just no comparison between an Islamic state that legally and constitutionally treats its few remaining minorities (and even Islamic sects like Ahmedi) as second class citizens with a genuine liberal, tolerant, secular democracy. Its like comparing chalk and cheese.
 
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