JF-17B - EW 'Growler'

[CriticalThought]

@Oscar @Bilal Khan (Quwa) @Bilal Khan 777 @messiach @gambit

The question of a growler type aircraft goes back to capabilities of modern AESA radars. India will have very strong coverage of AESA radars on the ground and in the air. And modern radar systems boast operations in a severe EW environment. Over time, we should expect an F-22 like LPI capability to become common place in all types of radars. In that case, forget about narrowband jamming. The best you can good for is wideband jamming. In other words, brute power. In that case, it is better to have the power of an AEWACS type aircraft behind you to saturate enemy defences.

Where the JF-17E can be useful is ELINT and ECM. Networked JF-17Es should be able to triangulate signal sources and pass coordinates to fighters. They should also be able to introduce false targets for enemy radars. Given the agility of Thunders, they will be better suited to this than an AEWACS. So there should be a combination of JF-17Es with a larger aircraft for jamming.

 

[LKJ86]

J-15D

J-16D

 

[Darth Vader]

The best you can good for is wideband jamming. In other words, brute power. In that case, it is better to have the power of an AEWACS type aircraft behind you to saturate enemy defences.

One Point , Pakistan Geo Location put it in disadvantage as Majority of Indian long Range Sams will cover Pakistan and Most probably AWACS will be the 1st Targets unless Pakistan uses Irani air Space, Chinese or Afg air space which i wont think will be possible as India have stronger ties with these countries than Pakistan
AWACS will be the force multipliers and will be in swarms.
If Pakistan in start somehow is able to make sure Indian Forces are not able to Deploy Sams close to border and cover whole Pakistan than Pakistan go for that otherwise will be sitting ducks in the Start of War
Pakistan also needs to make sure these Birds are well protected as well

 

[CriticalThought]

One Point , Pakistan Geo Location put it in disadvantage as Majority of Indian long Range Sams will cover Pakistan and Most probably AWACS will be the 1st Targets unless Pakistan uses Irani air Space, Chinese or Afg air space which i wont think will be possible as India have stronger ties with these countries than Pakistan
AWACS will be the force multipliers and will be in swarms.
If Pakistan in start somehow is able to make sure Indian Forces are not able to Deploy Sams close to border and cover whole Pakistan than Pakistan go for that otherwise will be sitting ducks in the Start of War
Pakistan also needs to make sure these Birds are well protected as well

That doesn't introduce any new problems since we already need to defend 11 odd birds. The same framework can be utilized.

 

[War Thunder]

One Point , Pakistan Geo Location put it in disadvantage as Majority of Indian long Range Sams will cover Pakistan and Most probably AWACS will be the 1st Targets unless Pakistan uses Irani air Space, Chinese or Afg air space which i wont think will be possible as India have stronger ties with these countries than Pakistan
AWACS will be the force multipliers and will be in swarms.
If Pakistan in start somehow is able to make sure Indian Forces are not able to Deploy Sams close to border and cover whole Pakistan than Pakistan go for that otherwise will be sitting ducks in the Start of War
Pakistan also needs to make sure these Birds are well protected as well

How exactly will those medium range SAMS cover the entirety of the airspace of Pakistan?
And lets say if there was such a SAM that could actually cover the entirety of airspace on Pakistan side, which the S-400 obviously cannot, and let's say both from indian and Afghan side, although Pakistan will blow up any such system to be stationed in Afghanistan at any point.
Wouldn't they have to be awefully close to the border and hence in the range of both the cruise and MLRS range already if not artillery?

 

[Basel]

PAF Growler JF17E [JF17B] to have new Electronic Warfare Variant, the JF17E

Sources & Reports suggest that JF17B-EW (or JF17E) variant shall be inducted to ensure the policy of "having capabilities to render any Missile Defence system useless"

View attachment 520443

This is very much needed now.

Major Issue: Less number of hard points.

2 x wingtips can use detection pods.
1 x mid pylon for High Band jamming pod
1 x mid pylon for Low band jamming pod
2 x inner pylons for MAR-1
1 x center-line for fuel

Where will A2A missiles go.
Less Range.
Nor sure if wet pylons can carry Mar-1

Here innovative solution can be made like multipurpose CFTs, which can accommodate EW when needed, this will free some hard points also spine can have EW systems installed in it too so it can free hard points too.

 

[Darth Vader]

How exactly will those medium range SAMS cover the entirety of the airspace of Pakistan?
And lets say if there was such a SAM that could actually cover the entirety of airspace on Pakistan side, which the S-400 obviously cannot, and let's say both from indian and Afghan side, although Pakistan will blow up any such system to be stationed in Afghanistan at any point.
Wouldn't they have to be awefully close to the border and hence in the range of both the cruise and MLRS range already if not artillery?

Few Things you are Mistaken if you re read i said if Pakistan uses Iran , and Afghan airspace not India ,
India will be deploying Mid to High Sam Systems and s400 , operational Range lies from 40 KM to 400KM and if you like to check the distance between Pakistan Afghan border and Indian Border thats 300 to 550 in different areas Mostly with Indian AWACS and Radar Stations india should be able to track everything on Pakistani side which is a big dis advantage thats why i Said if Pakistan is able to make sure india cant deploy these Sam System closer to border it will work wonders in Pakistan's Advantage Pakistan can use Swarm of UCAVS to take out these sites and few others but just raised a point

 

[MastanKhan]

Major Issue: Less number of hard points.

2 x wingtips can use detection pods.
1 x mid pylon for High Band jamming pod
1 x mid pylon for Low band jamming pod
2 x inner pylons for MAR-1
1 x center-line for fuel

Where will A2A missiles go.
Less Range.
Nor sure if wet pylons can carry Mar-1

Hi,

The cheapest option for a EW aircraft is JH7A

 

[Imran Khan]

then buy something real a heavy fighter like su-24 su-35 j-11 or j-16

 

[messiach]

I have been aware of a radar 'E' being develped especially for this particular purpose. I think i mentioned it somewhere else.

@Oscar @Bilal Khan (Quwa) @Bilal Khan 777 @messiach @gambit

The question of a growler type aircraft goes back to capabilities of modern AESA radars. India will have very strong coverage of AESA radars on the ground and in the air. And modern radar systems boast operations in a severe EW environment. Over time, we should expect an F-22 like LPI capability to become common place in all types of radars. In that case, forget about narrowband jamming. The best you can good for is wideband jamming. In other words, brute power. In that case, it is better to have the power of an AEWACS type aircraft behind you to saturate enemy defences.

Where the JF-17E can be useful is ELINT and ECM. Networked JF-17Es should be able to triangulate signal sources and pass coordinates to fighters. They should also be able to introduce false targets for enemy radars. Given the agility of Thunders, they will be better suited to this than an AEWACS. So there should be a combination of JF-17Es with a larger aircraft for jamming.

 

[Village life]

I live in a village that's why i am paindo, can any one expert here tell me if a Pakistani plane flyies from Sargodha ,Lahore ,Badin ,in tarian hugging mode will it cover 300 km first or S400 will take it down first,provided a swarm of Cruse missiles and drones above it's head, and if it's a kami kazi mission too,

 

[MIRauf]

Why not something like CH-7 Drone, use them to locate the radar sites for S-400, Drop Cluster or Laser Guided bombs to take out the target, then move to next target. This is what US will do in case like that, no one way manned mission, no suicide needed. If not mistaken, God/Allah would prefer that a momin lives to fight another day then to rushing towards martyrdom.

CH-7 is in suppose to fly next year, mass production from 2022. Swarm of these flying high

 

[SQ8]

@Oscar @Bilal Khan (Quwa) @Bilal Khan 777 @messiach @gambit

The question of a growler type aircraft goes back to capabilities of modern AESA radars. India will have very strong coverage of AESA radars on the ground and in the air. And modern radar systems boast operations in a severe EW environment. Over time, we should expect an F-22 like LPI capability to become common place in all types of radars. In that case, forget about narrowband jamming. The best you can good for is wideband jamming. In other words, brute power. In that case, it is better to have the power of an AEWACS type aircraft behind you to saturate enemy defences.

Where the JF-17E can be useful is ELINT and ECM. Networked JF-17Es should be able to triangulate signal sources and pass coordinates to fighters. They should also be able to introduce false targets for enemy radars. Given the agility of Thunders, they will be better suited to this than an AEWACS. So there should be a combination of JF-17Es with a larger aircraft for jamming.

There is only so much power than can be generated from the Rd-33 series. What is required is a higher power output. However, that is still achievable through external pods much like the growler does. In such a case the JF17B can work as a EW aircraft but it requires a lot of engineering work which I am afraid nobody has the vision to commit.
Ill try to post a screenshot of what I think you have in mind later.

 

[Sine Nomine]

In such a case the JF17B can work as a EW aircraft but it requires a lot of engineering work which I am afraid nobody has the vision to commit.

Please Expand it.

 

[Darth Vader]

I live in a village that's why i am paindo, can any one expert here tell me if a Pakistani plane flyies from Sargodha ,Lahore ,Badin ,in tarian hugging mode will it cover 300 km first or S400 will take it down first,provided a swarm of Cruse missiles and drones above it's head, and if it's a kami kazi mission too,

With all its Abilities S 400 is a Weapon Created by Man and its a really really Good Weapon but it also has its limitations , Terrain will have its affect i m not sure about Sardodha , and Badin but Lahore is plane so it will have much better visibility unlike Islamabad
Regarding Swarm of Cruse missiles and drones , Currently Pakistan doesn't have that much inventory of specific drones for that task , Yes it could be created and it will help alot in War time
As these Small , Long range drones can much Larger Area really quickly and if they are able to Stay Up in Air for long Duration can work as Satellite and keep providing update to date Info on specific target or Area
one thing Indian Army will Try to keep its Weapon Safe where these Can be Covered By other Systems as well as can provide cover with Man and Air Force
Current Limitation is Battery as for longer endurance and capability you need you need more battery and bigger air frame even its not a Plane but it still be tracked with modern Radars before they really cause problem
For Swarm Like actions
one thing could be created Smaller Drones with large numbers attack ( Work as Cluster Bomb ) a enemy with specific task to disable the Enemy instead of totally destroying it but for that you can use Military Vehicles need to go closer to enemy as these drones with current Battery as i said limitations of battery and inventory unless Pakistan builds 1000s Than it will be only applicable in true sense that each target gets attacked by 100 smaller drones it wont have the ability of big but devastation will be on much larger area
Unless Pakistan has thousands of Cruise missiles liying in stock that Swarm wont work as these System can target and engage 20 to 40 Targets at same time if PAF tries to attack with 5 or 10 80 % it wont Work
Example of True Drone Swarm now imagine if you send these