JF-17 Thunder Multirole Fighter [Thread 6]

[alimobin memon]

it might sound harsh but its reality that paf is going for the cheapest mall out there which i have no problem with because it is needed to fill the numbers but making it backbone of our air force that where problem is we need potent fighters for strike and air superiority. f 16 is good fighter and can perform both roles but its number in inventory is far to low to perform both of these role in case of war so we need either get more f 16 block 52 or any other new 4 gen fighter to fill air superiority or strike role to free current f16s from one role paf need to choose any of these two option but for god sake do something jf 17 is light weight fighter so have lot of limitation discussed many times in this thread and is only good for filling number but not meant to be our backbone fighter at least not in current state. can you name any 4 gen fighter that is operational and have specs lower then jf 17. it is most basic lowest tier 4 gen fighter out there in the market.
anyone saying we should wait for j 31 pls be realistic it will take almost 10 more year before it is ready and even then it is 5 gen fighter we cant induct it high numbers and it will also have extremely high operating cost as compared to 4 gen so we cant use it in every role even if it is meant to be used as multirole. we need good 4 gen fighter to be work horse even in year 2030.

you must be crazy saying jf17 is cheapest mall out there and is lowest 4th generation fighter. It has all the avionics of not just 4th generation fighter jet but also that of 4+. The RWR , EW Suite, Onboard Jammers are not part of 4th generation but an advanced 4th generation fighter.

People here are being so much ungrateful honestly. The reason jf17 is cheaper is because it is being inducted by its own manufacture for its own air force. Do you guys even know that for export version it is still in 25 million dollar price tag at least. the 15 million dollar cost was the early cost in 2010's now its beyond it.

With Air to Air refueling all the range issues if as suggested here are any will be cut off it can go twice or even thrice if refueler's are there to accommodate further participation in mission for jf17's.

Pakistan has 70+ F16 now these numbers are a lot for any air force to dealt with apart from jf17.

Of course India has atleast 300 4th generation fighters not all of which are to be used against pakistan india is still in bad position as it has to face Chinese forces too. Even if there is no war b/w china and india. India still has to station most of its flankers to the chinese borders with only 150 max I assure u will be the quantity of 4th generation fighters that India will be using against Pakistan. with jf17 the PAF will atleast have 130 4th generation fighters. As said by many think tanks the Ratio is decreased b.w India and Pakistan from 1:3 to 4 is now no more than 1:1.5 I dont need source u can assess it yourself.

jf17 is as capable as any 4th generation fighter the only problem would be su30 or Rafale but with company of block 52+ and Awacs PAF can achieve the superiority or at-least give enough loses to India to cancel further sorties against Pakistan.

Please enlighten the limitations apart from range ? Even the Payload has been increase to 4+ tons so I think it is a good addition and can work as back bone for PAF.

The only reason other countries are not going for jf17 is that jf17 is new to market and its manufactures are too. let it be Egypt or other countries they fear that new manufacturer's jet is inexperienced which might not be fruitful for them to induct their jet.

 

[alimobin memon]

I removed that quote already -_- I got little too much jazbaati

 

[Hell hound]

you must be crazy saying jf17 is cheapest mall out there and is lowest 4th generation fighter. It has all the avionics of not just 4th generation fighter jet but also that of 4+. The RWR , EW Suite, Onboard Jammers are not part of 4th generation but an advanced 4th generation fighter.

People here are being so much ungrateful honestly. The reason jf17 is cheaper is because it is being inducted by its own manufacture for its own air force. Do you guys even know that for export version it is still in 25 million dollar price tag at least. the 15 million dollar cost was the early cost in 2010's now its beyond it.

With Air to Air refueling all the range issues if as suggested here are any will be cut off it can go twice or even thrice if refueler's are there to accommodate further participation in mission for jf17's.

Pakistan has 70+ F16 now these numbers are a lot for any air force to dealt with apart from jf17.

Of course India has atleast 300 4th generation fighters not all of which are to be used against pakistan india is still in bad position as it has to face Chinese forces too. Even if there is no war b/w china and india. India still has to station most of its flankers to the chinese borders with only 150 max I assure u will be the quantity of 4th generation fighters that India will be using against Pakistan. with jf17 the PAF will atleast have 130 4th generation fighters. As said by many think tanks the Ratio is decreased b.w India and Pakistan from 1:3 to 4 is now no more than 1:1.5 I dont need source u can assess it yourself.

jf17 is as capable as any 4th generation fighter the only problem would be su30 or Rafale but with company of block 52+ and Awacs PAF can achieve the superiority or at-least give enough loses to India to cancel further sorties against Pakistan.

Please enlighten the limitations apart from range ? Even the Payload has been increase to 4+ tons so I think it is a good addition and can work as back bone for PAF.

The only reason other countries are not going for jf17 is that jf17 is new to market and its manufactures are too. let it be Egypt or other countries they fear that new manufacturer's jet is inexperienced which might not be fruitful for them to induct their jet.

then just name any operational 4 gen fighter let alone 4.5 gen whose overall performance is poorer then jf 17

 

[alimobin memon]

then just name any operational 4 gen fighter let alone 4.5 gen whose overall performance is poorer then jf 17

there are F-CK-1, jh-7, mig 29 avionics and surface attack package vise, F16 till block 40 atleast. ADV Tornado these are some jets which in aspect are lower to jf17 or equivalent but not in any way superior.

 

[IrbiS]

I removed that quote already -_- I got little too much jazbaati

Better read once before posting

 

[Hell hound]

we are using block 2 configuration here so to be fare to other we should use there most upgraded form as if you go to market today and purchase new jet they are not going to give u there older version u will get most updated version. but for argument sake lets compare old models which are mostly 2 decade old and then i leave it to you to judge how potent there current version will be
jh 7 far better range and load capacity and is a great strike platform
mig 29 extremely potent air superiority fighter
f 16 i think i don't need to point out its superiority on jf 17
adv tornado excellent strike fighter not good in air fighter role as it was perceived as strike platform
F-CK-1 this is the only jet i think which is some what equal to jf 17 in overall aspect but i don't know much about this jet so will refrain from commenting on it sorry

 

[alimobin memon]

we are using block 2 configuration here so to be fare to other we should use there most upgraded form as if you go to market today and purchase new jet they are not going to give u there older version u will get most updated version. but for argument sake lets compare old models which are mostly 2 decade old and then i leave it to you to judge how potent there current version will be
jh 7 far better range and load capacity and is a great strike platform
mig 29 extremely potent air superiority fighter
f 16 i think i don't need to point out its superiority on jf 17
adv tornado excellent strike fighter not good in air fighter role as it was perceived as strike platform
F-CK-1 this is the only jet i think which is some what equal to jf 17 in overall aspect but i don't know much about this jet so will refrain from commenting on it sorry

jh-7 may have operating range better but avionics wise and its survivability is lesser than jf17 in enemy air space. f16 is in same category as jf17. f16 is better dog fighter but overall jf17 is as good as atleast block 40 standard with. WMD 7 Pods and precision bombs it can do same wonders as f16 does in attacking militants with precision bombing. Mig 29 old models are not good they dont even have FBW they were in 90's updated to incorporate FBW systems. How the hell 2 decades u are saying are better than jf17. You are blind u have made ur mindset already that jf17 is inferior.

Jf17 is a light fighter so comparing its ferry / operating range to jh7, or other fighters that are in medium weight class is completely biased. Jas 39 gripen D is also comparable to jf17.

Please define what is most upgraded version ? Mig 29's most upgraded version is mig 29k with their zhuk me radars they are still avionics wise in same class as jf17. None of the migs in indian airforce are still upgraded to aesa yet they are proposed but non yet. all the f16 till block 40 don't have as much as range for radar detection against 3 m^2 target as jf17 which is ~90 km.

with additional capabilties of wmd 7 and KG 300 Pods the jf17 is reasonably lethal in moder warfare.

Whether u like it or not PAF pilots with jf17 pitted against j11 and j10 and were impressed with the jf17 performance.

Now whether you think of jf17 as joke or whatever to me and my knowledge that I have about jf17 I am pretty impressed with it.

If PAF really wants something big then j10 is not going to do much either go for SUKHOIS from china or russia or go for Rafale or ef 2000 that would be a leap j10 is not a leap

 

[MastanKhan]

then just name any operational 4 gen fighter let alone 4.5 gen whose overall performance is poorer then jf 17

Hi,

Sir---it is not a matter of being poor in performance----it is about the reach of the radar, the lock on capability, the reach of the BVR missile.

Pappy----if you load up a Fokker Friendhsip with 50 aim 120 -7's and a potent radar---it will wreak havoc on the enemy. For that reason---the B52's are being modified with new electronics and launch capabilities.

 

[Hell hound]

Hi,

Sir---it is not a matter of being poor in performance----it is about the reach of the radar, the lock on capability, the reach of the BVR missile.

Pappy----if you load up a Fokker Friendhsip with 50 aim 120 -7's and a potent radar---it will wreak havoc on the enemy. For that reason---the B52's are being modified with new electronics and launch capabilities.

sir i agree with you on this point that today weapons have made fighter merely weapon launching platform you need good radar and good missiles to do that and to defend it self you need good ew
but in case of Pakistan and India this deadly Fokker might not survive due to its huge rcs and low speed low climbing and turning rate means it might not be able to get where it want to go in time and in case of merger zero percent chance of survivability so in our case we still need fighter which can dog fight as merger is still going to happen in our wars and our backbone fighter which is going to do it is short legged have weak ew capability (comparatively to mki) only good when external jammer is not mounted on it which mean in total 3 to 4 hard points are gone 3 or 2 for external fuel tanks and one for jammer and we are left with 3 hard points now lets get to there backbone fighter no need for external tank extremely good ew extreme amount of load out which mean they have the flying Fokker with extreme mobility and speed
i am not saying dont indut jf 17 all i am saying that jf 17 is not enough induct something else too be it j11 j10 euro fighter mig35 f 15 f16 f18 any thing that can be our flying Fokker with latest tech like HOBS JHMS etc

 

[MastanKhan]

sir i agree with you on this point that today weapons have made fighter merely weapon launching platform you need good radar and good missiles to do that and to defend it self you need good ew
but in case of Pakistan and India this deadly Fokker might not survive due to its huge rcs and low speed low climbing and turning rate means it might not be able to get where it want to go in time and in case of merger zero percent chance of survivability so in our case we still need fighter which can dog fight as merger is still going to happen in our wars and our backbone fighter which is going to do it is short legged have weak ew capability (comparatively to mki) if external jammer is not mounted on it which mean in total 3 to 4 hard points are gone 3 or 2 for external fuel tanks and one for jammer and we are left with 3 hard points now lets get to there backbone fighter no need for external tank extremely good ew extreme amount of load out which mean they have the flying Fokker with extreme mobility and speed
i am not saying dont indut jf 17 all i am saying that jf 17 is not enough induct something more be it j11 j10 euro fighter mig35 f 15 f16 f18 any thing that can be our flying Fokker with latest tech like HOBS JHMS etc

Hi,

Here is the issue---Pakistan needs to fill in a slot of 250 aircraft to replace the F7's and Mirage's----. If on a scale of 1---10, those aircraft are a 4 ----then the JF 17 would be a 7 or 8.

So---basically that slot is going to be filled up in 2 to 3 years time. What the paf has done is to cover their shortcoming from bottoms up rather than go for an air superiority fighter from gitgo.

Aesa is going to make the ultimate difference in the capability of this aircraft.

 

[Hell hound]

Hi,

Here is the issue---Pakistan needs to fill in a slot of 250 aircraft to replace the F7's and Mirage's----. If on a scale of 1---10, those aircraft are a 4 ----then the JF 17 would be a 7 or 8.

So---basically that slot is going to be filled up in 2 to 3 years time. What the paf has done is to cover their shortcoming from bottoms up rather than go for an air superiority fighter from gitgo.

Aesa is going to make the ultimate difference in the capability of this aircraft.

sir that what i am saying use jf 17 to fill the number in braket of 150 to 180 remaining 100 or 70 should be filled with another type which should be any air superiority type fighter don't just keep inducting jf 17 and making it a standard issue fighter for paf. pls have some diversity

 

[Bratva]

sir that what i am saying use jf 17 to fill the number in braket of 150 to 180 remaining 100 or 70 should be filled with another type which should be any air superiority type fighter don't just keep inducting jf 17 and making it a standard issue fighter for paf. pls have some diversity

This is What I've been saying. Unless they upgrade JF-17 to Gripen NG level, It should not be made standard aircraft of PAF !

 

[The Great One]

This is What I've been saying. Unless they upgrade JF-17 upto Gripen NG level, It shouldnot be filled or be made standard aircraft of PAF !

There could be 2 JF-17 standards - one the present gap-filler and the other, Gripen NG'ed. PAF need to replace oldies now. NG version can come with natural evolution of technology in time. NG version can satisfy the need for a proper 4.5+ but Blk. 2 class is also useful.

 

[vizier]

Jf 17 latest blocks are already silent thunders having dsi intakes reducing its frontal rcs considerably. f16 and others dont have these including Indian fighters. it has a vertical tail maybe in future models V tail can be incorporated for lower top down rcs. It has many future options in my opinion surfaces can be flattened-ram coated to give it a more stealthy outlook in later blocks and a higher export potential as a low cost alternative.

 

[ACE OF THE AIR]

Hi,

Here is the issue---Pakistan needs to fill in a slot of 250 aircraft to replace the F7's and Mirage's----. If on a scale of 1---10, those aircraft are a 4 ----then the JF 17 would be a 7 or 8.

So---basically that slot is going to be filled up in 2 to 3 years time. What the paf has done is to cover their shortcoming from bottoms up rather than go for an air superiority fighter from gitgo.

Aesa is going to make the ultimate difference in the capability of this aircraft.

Sir, PAF knows that now with the modernization program the replacement of 250+ F-7 and Mirage aircraft can be done by half the number of JF-17's (175-180).

On the other hand PAF is also looking to purchase more F-16's which would also fill the gap quite rapidly. So one can think that It would be a mix of 50-70 more F-16's bringing the number Of PAF F-16 's about 120-150.

If the latest news regarding joining the TFX program became a reality then PAF may not even go for more F-16's.