Featured JF-17 Emerged As The Star of Swift Retort

[TNT]

I don’t think American have supernatural or God like magically powers.

There are hundreds of observing satellites orbiting in low earth orbit. It takes them 90 to 120 mins to complete a full orbit. On feb 27 it was clear sky at day time. There is a very high probability a satellite would have picked up something during that day.
The CIA also have observing satellites at low orbit and they can quickly be steered to particular orbit to observe any such events. Given the Pakistan india tensions, im sure the americans were watching it.
Sharing that data is another question. Im sure they would not want to annoy their potential bullwark against China.

 

[Ark_Angel]

Everybody is jibber jabbing that my buddy in AF, Sq ldr Jeera mechanic confirm me this or that. No one knows nothing here. Disappearing blip in mountain area doesn’t necessarily means It was destroyed.

There might be circumstantial conclusion based on sensor data, but if there was a clear evidence than PAF and Pakistan would have released it to embarrass Indians.

Wanna be Khan, Not everything is about embarrassing. You release your evidence, you compromise your source, you loose everything. State secrets are something which a kaka like you will never understand, till you grow you up or eventually serve at a place where your actions can cost/ save lives of your countrymen. Now go and sleep. It’s way past your best time.

 

[Genghis khan1]

Wanna be Khan, Not everything is about embarrassing. You release your evidence, you compromise your source, you loose everything. State secrets are something which a kaka like you will never understand, till you grow you up or eventually serve at a place where your actions can cost/ save lives of your countrymen. Now go and sleep. It’s way past your best time.

Buddy I am simply stating news that everybody over here, claiming to “KNOWN” something Or someone from Inside because their buddy Jeera mechanic is employed by PAF is just spreading hearsay. If it’s so classified that their buddy Jeera mechanic most probably pulling his conclusion Out of his rare, based on hearsay he heard from someone else at work. Like I said, most probably circumstantial evidence or conclusion at best.

 

[Alchemist17]

Buddy I am simply stating news that everybody over here, claiming to “KNOWN” something Or someone from Inside because their buddy Jeera mechanic is employed by PAF is just spreading hearsay. If it’s so classified that their buddy Jeera mechanic most probably pulling his conclusion Out of his rare, based on hearsay he heard from someone else at work. Like I said, most probably circumstantial evidence or conclusion at best.

AS HE SAID, you will know it when you work there. Even professional tell their relatives/friends some harmless information and it does no harm. Makes up for a good convo but other than that, keeps the general civilian with enough intellect and “will to know” satisfied and informed. And you talk as if being a Airplane/Fighter mechanic is a lowly thing. One of my relatives was a F16 Technician and he told me how he remembers each and every screw on a F16. Now dont tell me there are no screws in the F16.

 

[Genghis khan1]

There are hundreds of observing satellites orbiting in low earth orbit. It takes them 90 to 120 mins to complete a full orbit. On feb 27 it was clear sky at day time. There is a very high probability a satellite would have picked up something during that day.
The CIA also have observing satellites at low orbit and they can quickly be steered to particular orbit to observe any such events. Given the Pakistan india tensions, im sure the americans were watching it.
Sharing that data is another question. Im sure they would not want to annoy their potential bullwark against China.

Ya, but things don’t work like this. CIA has little to nothing to do with it. National Reconnaissance Office (NRO) collect all satellite sensor data. Send it to relative, CIA, DIA, Air-force (space command /force now) for processing depending on mission requirement. There is so much going on that day, to dissect chronology of events, concerned agency will need some time and manpower to clear up the details. Now no US assets is involve, whole event is nothing more than another Intelligence analysis Of the event for file cabinet.

 

[Thorough Pro]

You sir, are a no-nonsense pro, you don't have to answer, but I assume you are active.
I laughed hard at the youngster are youngsters comment.

No such thing happened.
Both of the two Mirage 2000s and the two Su-30s were pulled back as they were outnumbered 6:1 (24 vs 4) and new reinforcements were being sent from Punjab, Haryana and even Rajasthan.

As per the info we have IAF Cheif *Bull Sh*T Dhanoa* mislead his political masters About the status of availability of Fighters in IAF fleet.
1. Pre 26 Feb when the plan was presented to CCS regarding Balakot, IAF in its concluding remarks presented a picture where there will be Little to No PAF response due to Certain Edge perceived by IAF in their own war game analysis.
2. IAF relied heavily on input by Israeli security team in Devising tactics for Balakot OP.
3. IAF and Indian Politico Mil Hierarchy created a new phrase in their Military Terminologies known as *The New Norm* which was to replicate the Israeli Tactics over Syria where by SOW weapons will be used to show Mil Superiority over the adversary presumably without inviting response.
4. From what know, from 3rd Party sources, The Current IAF cheif was against Balakot OP. He speaks less and is a thorough professional, gets the job done and was on the left of BS Dhanoa due to his vocal reservations regarding any misadventure.
4. Firing solution to SPICE glide weapons were inserted by Israeli Team themselves not IAF personnel. The resultant off target impact created strains between the Israeli Firm and IAF, results are being seen today HAMMERS have been ordered by IAF for Rafales implicating a complete European Armament for Indian Rafales.
5. IAF was anticipating a response, They were ready, but not as prepared as they should have been, Which lead to a disaster on their side during the Skirmish.
6. Post 27 Feb IAF activity went to almost zero, from what the Langar Gup is BS Dhanoa was given a heavy dressing down by Doval and Indian Leadership opted to use Brahmos as a response, which adds weight to this Theory. However that would have received a response the would have been the Armgageddon.
7. JF-17s proved their Mettle in the combat, Thunder Pilots were itching to get the green light to release their BVRs off the rails, ROEs are ROEs, you violate them your out.
8. It’s always a treat to listen to convo of Abhi and his GC lady Officer. I wish all Pakistanis can hear it one day. However The most entertaining is when the Vipers light up their Radars
And watch the Indian CAP turn and scoot away. Youngsters are youngsters. *Sir in ki Phat gai hai* quipped a lad.
9. Rafales with Metoer Combo has already been catered for. The Balance of Power to Shoot First will remain in the hands of PAF for the foreseeable future and will Only grow at a fraction of the cost, While IAF will continually be ripped by Foreign OEMs.
10. ACM Rakesh is a professional, I would be concerned about his approach to overhaul his airforce. Will keep an eye on how they go about things. His direction is fine, but the current challenge at Ladakh will prove his mettle.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuban_intervention_in_Angola

Could u DM me info regarding the bold part? I don't wanna derail the thread...but I'm very curious about that above. I have no clue as to what u r mentioning...and would like to read up on it.

Thank Allah, we just put in efforts, victory or defeat comes from Allah.

Baap baap huta hay----End of story.

 

[Genghis khan1]

AS HE SAID, you will know it when you work there. Even professional tell their relatives/friends some harmless information and it does no harm. Makes up for a good convo but other than that, keeps the general civilian with enough intellect and “will to know” satisfied and informed. And you talk as if being a Airplane/Fighter mechanic is a lowly thing. One of my relatives was a F16 Technician and he told me how he remembers each and every screw on a F16. Now dont tell me there are no screws in the F16.

Military doesn’t work like this. If your buddy is Airforce tech, than that all he knows inside AF. When it comes to classified stuff, it’s all need to know basis. Your Professional buddy regardless of rank AVM or Jeera mechanic will not hear about it. Period.

If it’s harmless and general convo information than it’s not classified and is hearsay.

 

[Thorough Pro]

People keep asking why PAF does not present the proof it has, my question is why should PAF present anything to anyone?

PAF knows what happened, IAF knows what happened, there are no brownie points for setting things straight, its not a court of law. The more they lie to hide facts the better it is for us.

Exactly! And not to mention official PAF claims that they have the recording of the IAF panic after the SU-30 went down. Well, if you have such a recording why wouldn’t you present it to set the record straight. Something tells me this is a lie or an incompetence on the part of PAF. If they release now, it’s more than a year late and people will correctly raise credibility concerns.

Btw, the Indians never hesitated to present the intercepted conversation between Musharraf and his generals during Kargil. There’s no reason why PAF wouldn’t release this audio if it has it in its possession.

If not from an SU30 then it must be the backside of the guy on the right, he looks real hurt

Did the Indians get this Amraam piece from the Su30 wreckage?

 

[Beast]

From what i have heard, the main issue with MKI's electronics are the compatibility issues, western hardware is installed on russian machine, but it is unable to perform to its full capability. On one hand it does boast machines capability on paper but when tested in actual performance, it fails to meet the mark.

Indeed. Same as the R-77 BVRAAM missile which brag with engagement range of 180km but at max attitude and against low maneuver aircraft. It real effective range engagement may at only 70-80km

 

[mqur1963]

so how India is going to handle china.
they cant counter paf which is smaller then chines air force

 

[untitled]

As already mentioned here, they tried using single aircraft hit and run tactics to hide under airliners but in one hilarious case the Su-30 with its massive RCS was seen earlier than the airliner it was trying to sneak in with.

While we are discussing the Op Swift Retort and the SU-30 that hid behind a passenger plane;

Is this the same incident involving Spicejet SG21?

 

[Figaro]

so how India is going to handle china.
they cant counter paf which is smaller then chines air force

Temporarily they can't ... the IAF has two imminent gaps in pure A2A combat against the Chinese : the need to counter Chinese 4.5 gen fighters like the J-10C and J-16 and the need to counter the J-20. So far, the Rafael is their answer to the first problem, but at the induction rate it is far too slow (especially compared to the Chinese production). As for the J-20 problem, the IAF currently has no way of dealing with it other than rejoining the FGFA program, which is looking very unlikely. Hopefully they are smart enough to rejoin the FGFA program and not divert resources to the AMCA ... otherwise they won't even have a viable 5th gen fighter by 2040.

Indeed. Same as the R-77 BVRAAM missile which brag with engagement range of 180km but at max attitude and against low maneuver aircraft. It real effective range engagement may at only 70-80km

Which is why they purchased the Rafael. The BVR capabilities of the flankers are just very subpar ... the Russians seem to still be stuck in the WVR era it would appear, even with their Su-57 (which is one of the reasons India left the program ironically).

 

[omegalamba7XL9]

1. Pakistan Could Have Technical Edge on Indian Air Force Despite Rafale Jet Deployment: IAF Veteran

10:30 GMT 02.03.2020
by Rishikesh Kumar
New Delhi (Sputnik): On Friday, Indian Air Force (IAF) Chief RKS Bhadauria said the 36 Rafale jets were not the whole solution to the IAF's needs. India signed a $7.8 billion contract with French Dassault Aviation to buy the aircraft in 2019.

Sitting beside Indian Defence Minister Rajnath Singh, Air Force Chief Rakesh Kumar Bhadauria issued a strong warning to the political leadership of India, claiming that the Rafale fighter jet is insufficient to meet the country's defence needs.

IAF veteran Vijainder K Thakur told Sputnik that Rafale is definitely the best aircraft in the IAF's inventory now. However, a determined adversary like the Pakistan Air Force could turn the tables on the IAF by deploying longer-ranged Chinese PL-15 missiles on an updated version of the JF-17 jet.

“The technical advantage gained by the IAF through the acquisition of the Rafale would be transient because it would be based largely on the weapon systems and sensors of the Rafale,” Thakur said.
The IAF's excessive focus on platforms rather than sensors and weapon systems was evident during the Kargil conflict with Pakistan two decades ago. “The IAF fulfilled the expectations only after it made emergency purchases of Laser-Guided Bombs and targeting pods,” Thakur said.

Powered Up JF-17
The Pakistan Air Force’s single engine multirole fighter, the JF-17 manufactured by the Chengdu Aircraft Corporation, is due for a major upgrade, similar to the advanced technologies seen on the J-20 stealth fighter, the Chinese newspaper Global Times reported earlier this year.

It is confirmed by the Chinese outlet that the upgraded JF-17 fighter jet will have “an infrared search and track system and a radar cross section reducing ‘pseudo-stealthy’ airframe”.

The JF-17 fighter jet has been also equipping with PL-15 Beyond Visual Range air-to-air missile that has posed serious concern among the US Air Force due to the long range of its missiles.

Herbert J. Carlisle, the then head of the US Air Force’s combat command, was quoted by Flight Global as saying that outmatching the Chinese PL-15 air-to-air missile in particular is an “exceedingly high priority”.
“The PL-15 and the range of that missile, we’ve got to be able to out-stick that missile,” US Air Force’s Command chief had said in 2015.

Lessons From Balakot Strike and Options for India
On February 27 2019, a day after the IAF struck an alleged terror training camp at Balakot, the PAF surprised the IAF with its longer range AMRAAM and better supporting sensor capability.

“IAF allowed itself to be outgunned by focusing on platform acquisitions, rather than weapon system and sensor upgrades. With sufficient military foresight, the IAF could have armed its Su-30MKI with longer range air-to-air missiles acquired from Russia rather than continuing to rely on the lesser ranged missile ordered years ago from Ukraine,” IAF veteran Thakur asserted.
The Indian Air Force ordered a large batch of Russian air-to-air missiles such as R-27, R-73 very shortly after Balakot strike.

Emphasising the importance of indigenous Astra air-to-air missile, Indian Air Force Chief Bhadauria said at a seminar in New Delhi on Friday that when the missile goes on to the Su-30 and MiG-29, that the power of parity and better performance will spread across the air force.

The Indian Air Force will start taking delivery of the Rafale jets in May 2020.
https://sputniknews.com/analysis/20...ce-despite-rafale-jet-deployment-iaf-veteran/
PL15 vs Rafale

 

[mqur1963]

thank you for info

 

[Thorough Pro]

You were there in India during that time on the very base that launched the failed attack?
In what capacity?

There were no isrealis there period. I was there so I know.


Those were by M's not JF-17s.