Featured JF-17 Emerged As The Star of Swift Retort

[masterchief_mirza]

Your analysis is based on predictions by Nametullah shah wali and my analysis is u got it some wt wrong.
It's like a major reason for 1857 war of independence was these above mentioned predictions but they got it wrong by almost a 100 years as we got our independence in 1947.
If u look at whole thing n u think about it objectively u will realise that if India were to ever make a thrust from the east all way to Attock than from a military stand point we are finished as 90% of all our assetts and man power is positioned to meet any challenge from india. So in such an eventuality Pakistan would be crippled to such an extent that theirs no getting up....in other words we would have lost the war.
So in my opinion this thrust will come from the West ie afganistan. I base my analysis on the following:
In the event of war with india all regular troops deployed on the western border will be redeployed on the eastern front, leaving just frontier Corps. To defend the border. So a coordinated attack between the afg army and backed up by us troops and air force would be deadly and would allow the afg troops to make deep ingress into Pak terrority all the way up till the Attock river crossing.

I believe a indo Pak war is inevitable and just around the corner.
I believe the war will be fought in three stages:
1. The Indians while faced with a hostile kashmiri population and a falling eco. and hostility at home will try to deflect it populations attention by engaging in a limited war with Pak on Kashmir. But the response this time from Pak will be all out n it will result in a defeat for India n liberation of Kashmir.
2. Devasted by the loss of Kashmir India will plan and prepare for an all out war from both east and west which will be supported by intl. Powers, us, isreal etc. This will result in loss of terrority and Pak will be up against it but the situation will be arrested with help and physical intervention of our friends e.g. china etc. This will not just reverse the tables but we will be able to capture dehli.
3 due to intl pressure Pakistan is forced to vacate captured terrority but after a few years the Hindus carry out reprisal attacks against the Muslims in the south of India and Pak is forced to intervene and capture India once and for all.

Note : some part of my analysis is based on the predictions of Nametullah shah wali and others saints.
In the end we humans can make guesses and analysis but it is only ALLAH with the final say.
ALLAH hum sub per raham farmaye

Don't want Delhi. Just nuke it all and save us all this dilly dallying over Delhi.

 

[imadul]

Yes and next day india would have given us Kashmir. In which worl u r living kid ? This didnt happened even in 1965 when we had air superiroity over indian skies and naval comtrol in indian ocean.

Annexation of kashmir was a legal move planned after getting majority. It has nothing to do with swift retort.

Regarding brutalities in Kashmir , how was the situation before feb 2uth.

So i didnt agree with your analysis at all as it have lots of ifs and buts

You just putting your words in my mouth and please dont patronize.
You just not able to give solid counter argument.

 

[Alchemist17]

He is talking as if he was there in a Mig 21. And whats this 14 Digit thing on the R-73 Missile? Someone?

 

[Thorough Pro]

Story writing and storytelling used to be an art, only if the world knew that in India you can just pull one out of your arse

He is talking as if he was there in a Mig 21. And whats this 14 Digit thing on the R-73 Missile? Someone?

 

[Alchemist17]

Story writing and storytelling used to be an art, only if the world knew that in India you can just pull one out of your arse

“Activated THC and Jamming Pod. Now THC requires very very low IAS. This guy is evading a missile by THC bhai maro mujhe maro!

 

[The Terminator]

No there is no reason to argue the decision was taken by the military. IK has nothing to do with the matter of ROE and even repatriation of the captured pilot abhinandan. He is just a mouth piece just says what he is told to say.

Maybe the Military establishment made sure that AF knows that we are not suppose to escalate it .. i mean shooting down 5+ enemy jets means war, now we can argue if it was decision of IK or Bajwa that stop PAF from fully decimate IAF on 27th Feb, but there is no doubt that some people see it as our weakness that we only shot 2 and release the pilot the very next day .

According to more predictions battles would start from Gilgit area and spread to a full blown war after Eid ul Fitr and before Eid ul Adha. And according to an Hadees destruction of Sindh(Pakistan) would be due to hind(India) and destruction of Hind due to China.
From wherever our enemy attacks that's confirmed we would be devastated comprehensively first. Then our allies China, Turkey and Mujahideen would come for rescue then our thrust would put an end to hindu regime. These are included in predictions.

I was thinking how could war would start from gilgit area?? There's every chance to start it on Azad Kashmir LOC, Lahore/Sialkot area or Southern desert area but just then Bingo the situation escalated between India and China in northern Ladakh very near to vital CPEC route and our Gilgit area.

Constantinople (Istanbul) would also be snatched from Muslims, it means Turkey would be also attacked in similar time line then Muslims would recapture Istanbul after either 7 months or 7 years of war. That are all predictions just before the emergence of Dajjal the Anti-christ in a human form. Recent restoration of Hagia Sophia into mosque has really incited anger within Christian community as it was also their sacred place. History is being made in front of our very eyes. And it's happening rapidly including the on going zionists annexation of Jerusalem.

During that time periods Arabs and Persians would be wiped out from the face of the Earth and Quresh would be the first one to be extinct in Arabs.

Your analysis is based on predictions by Nametullah shah wali and my analysis is u got it some wt wrong.
It's like a major reason for 1857 war of independence was these above mentioned predictions but they got it wrong by almost a 100 years as we got our independence in 1947.
If u look at whole thing n u think about it objectively u will realise that if India were to ever make a thrust from the east all way to Attock than from a military stand point we are finished as 90% of all our assetts and man power is positioned to meet any challenge from india. So in such an eventuality Pakistan would be crippled to such an extent that theirs no getting up....in other words we would have lost the war.
So in my opinion this thrust will come from the West ie afganistan. I base my analysis on the following:
In the event of war with india all regular troops deployed on the western border will be redeployed on the eastern front, leaving just frontier Corps. To defend the border. So a coordinated attack between the afg army and backed up by us troops and air force would be deadly and would allow the afg troops to make deep ingress into Pak terrority all the way up till the Attock river crossing.

I believe a indo Pak war is inevitable and just around the corner.
I believe the war will be fought in three stages:
1. The Indians while faced with a hostile kashmiri population and a falling eco. and hostility at home will try to deflect it populations attention by engaging in a limited war with Pak on Kashmir. But the response this time from Pak will be all out n it will result in a defeat for India n liberation of Kashmir.
2. Devasted by the loss of Kashmir India will plan and prepare for an all out war from both east and west which will be supported by intl. Powers, us, isreal etc. This will result in loss of terrority and Pak will be up against it but the situation will be arrested with help and physical intervention of our friends e.g. china etc. This will not just reverse the tables but we will be able to capture dehli.
3 due to intl pressure Pakistan is forced to vacate captured terrority but after a few years the Hindus carry out reprisal attacks against the Muslims in the south of India and Pak is forced to intervene and capture India once and for all.

Note : some part of my analysis is based on the predictions of Nametullah shah wali and others saints.
In the end we humans can make guesses and analysis but it is only ALLAH with the final say.
ALLAH hum sub per raham farmaye

 

[The Accountant]

There are times when war is unavoidable. Pakistan should have slammed IAF so hard that Modi would have to contemplate war from a position of fear, uncertainty, & doubt. Pakistan's restraint provided them space to boast & guess that Pakistan would continue to exercise restraint.

I can not believe that I would write this, since I am a dove & not a hawk. But in hind-sight 27 Feb should have struck them so hard that they would have to contemplate war. 26 Feb was an election stunt & in that Modi was able to spin a tale of success even when there was none. IMV PAF should have struck hard and not only by lobbing BVR missiles. The damage should have been visible enough that no fake news should have been able to cover it. FGS, PTI, like BJP in India, had employed fake news as an effective weapon against sitting government from 2013 to 2018. Why could the head honchos not understand that what worked for PTI & BJP would work for Indian government? A measly Mig-21 shot down was nothing. It should have been a third of a squadron of much-touted Indian assets. How many accidents would they have been able to stage to fake deaths?


As I said, sometimes war is unavoidable. It was considered probable that Modi would create a situation. Pakistan was just not ready to convert an incident into an opportunity. This was due to fear. Instead of instilling it, we made policy out of it.

Position of fear? Really. That was a theater level air dominanace. Even taking down 9 aircraft will not put much of a dent on IAF inventories. In an all out war result could be much more different and they having much higher number of aircrafts can take much more hits.

Pakistan establishment deliberately left it upto the extent that they dont feel prssure of compulsory retaliation to avoid war.

Anyways lets agree to disagree.

 

[Mrc]

He is talking as if he was there in a Mig 21. And whats this 14 Digit thing on the R-73 Missile? Someone?

R73 is wvr mijjile.

Mig was taken down by their own account by aim 120 c5 BVR. It was no where close to firing r 73 absolutely bollocks

 

[SQ8]

R73 is wvr mijjile.

Mig was taken down by their own account by aim 120 c5 BVR. It was no where close to firing r 73 absolutely bollocks

After 71 war the Indians went nuts with pressers and elaborate stories on how PAF Mirages were shot down.

The PAF called the French and other military attache’s, and a photographer. Lined up all the Mirages in front of them and asked them if they saw one missing.

This year the Americans gave their stories the lame duck treatment along with their own actual experts; but the bollywoodland delusional population keeps dreaming. They lie so much it becomes their truth.

 

[Chak Bamu]

Your analysis is based on predictions by Nametullah shah wali and my analysis is u got it some wt wrong.
It's like a major reason for 1857 war of independence was these above mentioned predictions but they got it wrong by almost a 100 years as we got our independence in 1947.
If u look at whole thing n u think about it objectively u will realise that if India were to ever make a thrust from the east all way to Attock than from a military stand point we are finished as 90% of all our assetts and man power is positioned to meet any challenge from india. So in such an eventuality Pakistan would be crippled to such an extent that theirs no getting up....in other words we would have lost the war.
So in my opinion this thrust will come from the West ie afganistan. I base my analysis on the following:
In the event of war with india all regular troops deployed on the western border will be redeployed on the eastern front, leaving just frontier Corps. To defend the border. So a coordinated attack between the afg army and backed up by us troops and air force would be deadly and would allow the afg troops to make deep ingress into Pak terrority all the way up till the Attock river crossing.

I believe a indo Pak war is inevitable and just around the corner.
I believe the war will be fought in three stages:
1. The Indians while faced with a hostile kashmiri population and a falling eco. and hostility at home will try to deflect it populations attention by engaging in a limited war with Pak on Kashmir. But the response this time from Pak will be all out n it will result in a defeat for India n liberation of Kashmir.
2. Devasted by the loss of Kashmir India will plan and prepare for an all out war from both east and west which will be supported by intl. Powers, us, isreal etc. This will result in loss of terrority and Pak will be up against it but the situation will be arrested with help and physical intervention of our friends e.g. china etc. This will not just reverse the tables but we will be able to capture dehli.
3 due to intl pressure Pakistan is forced to vacate captured terrority but after a few years the Hindus carry out reprisal attacks against the Muslims in the south of India and Pak is forced to intervene and capture India once and for all.

Note : some part of my analysis is based on the predictions of Nametullah shah wali and others saints.
In the end we humans can make guesses and analysis but it is only ALLAH with the final say.
ALLAH hum sub per raham farmaye

Guys, please lay off Nemat-ullah Shah Wali predictions. These have been used for propaganda purposes and change with the times. I once delved into this subject as far as it was possible for me; and stopped trusting in these once I came across differing versions of it that changed with the times. The predictions' usage for propaganda was too obvious. While I am on the subject, please allow me to request that Jihad-e-Hind be also shelved for either the past or indeterminate future. Spiritual predictions & eschatology are best left alone. They serve no immediate or strategic purpose, save propaganda.

Besides, this is not the thread for any of the above. Discuss JF-17 & its usage on & after 27th Feb 2019 as you see fit. Thanks.

Maybe the Military establishment made sure that AF knows that we are not suppose to escalate it .. i mean shooting down 5+ enemy jets means war, now we can argue if it was decision of IK or Bajwa that stop PAF from fully decimate IAF on 27th Feb, but there is no doubt that some people see it as our weakness that we only shot 2 and release the pilot the very next day .

Well whatever the cause, it was unfortunate that Pakistan did not escalate.

Position of fear? Really. That was a theater level air dominanace. Even taking down 9 aircraft will not put much of a dent on IAF inventories. In an all out war result could be much more different and they having much higher number of aircrafts can take much more hits.

Pakistan establishment deliberately left it upto the extent that they dont feel prssure of compulsory retaliation to avoid war.

Anyways lets agree to disagree.

Yes, position of fear, uncertainty, & doubt. This is what happens when boastful leaders are confronted with a hard choice, a choice of war or peace.

Why was it just a theater level air dominance exercise? Did the generals, whose job it was to game different options, do their job well enough? I know that a dove like Nawaz Sharif would never have gone for escalation, but IK? Back to the point about boastfulness & tough choices.

 

[CHI RULES]

Rest assure rafale is not invicible and meteor has weakness, it has already taken care of, Paf will ALWAYS have first shoot capability.

There should be some show of force i.e display of gadgets to counter Rafale just like Indian's doing as every Pakistani neither understands military concepts nor has inside information. I have full confidence as I am sitting just few KMs of border but many are not so.

 

[Reichmarshal]

Guys, please lay off Nemat-ullah Shah Wali predictions. These have been used for propaganda purposes and change with the times. I once delved into this subject as far as it was possible for me; and stopped trusting in these once I came across differing versions of it that changed with the times. The predictions' usage for propaganda was too obvious. While I am on the subject, please allow me to request that Jihad-e-Hind be also shelved for either the past or indeterminate future. Spiritual predictions & eschatology are best left alone. They serve no immediate or strategic purpose.

No predictions on my part, was trying to rationalise wt the poster had said.
U can call my post a analytical exercise in trying to piece together wt an Indian attack/ thrust might be shaped like

 

[CriticalThinker02]

I don't understand this excuse of getting "the message across", what is this message and how will this message be received, you speak as though you are facing an enemy that can be reasoned with, you seem to forget that you are facing an enemy who dreams of wiping out Muslims from the face of the subcontinent because according to their bigoted views you ruled over them for over 800 years and now it's pay back time, convert back to hinduism or die that is the options they are presenting to you so what do you mean when you say by getting the message across because THIS EXCUSE IS NOT GOOD ENOUGH, either you don't have the clarity and the realisation necessary of the magnitude of the enemy you are facing or there were other valid reasons because this reason is not acceptable.

Israel won the 6 day war within the first 20 minutes by destroying the Egyptian airfields, they were able to do this because they were clear who their foes were and what they needed to do without any half measures, if we still believe that India can be reasoned with, if we still think that we are not in a perpetual war with this foe since our independence, that this is not a zero sum game then I fear for the future of Pakistan, if we are compared to Israel in some ways than we need to be as decisive as they are in dealing with their foes, swift retort is not good enough.

 

[Sinnerman108]

There was much heated debate within PAF after this as there were seven IAF aircraft that were sitting ducks....but the higher ups didn't give clearance.....shooting them all would have had same effect as that by Rafiqui and Bhati did on the opening engagement of 1965 war.....at least some of IAF fleet would have been grounded.

And the result would have been an all out war thus pushing the region back at least a few decades.

 

[CHI RULES]

Guys, please lay off Nemat-ullah Shah Wali predictions. These have been used for propaganda purposes and change with the times. I once delved into this subject as far as it was possible for me; and stopped trusting in these once I came across differing versions of it that changed with the times. The predictions' usage for propaganda was too obvious. While I am on the subject, please allow me to request that Jihad-e-Hind be also shelved for either the past or indeterminate future. Spiritual predictions & eschatology are best left alone. They serve no immediate or strategic purpose, save propaganda.

Besides, this is not the thread for any of the above. Discuss JF-17 & its usage on & after 27th Feb 2019 as you see fit. Thanks.


Well whatever the cause, it was unfortunate that Pakistan did not escalate.


Yes, position of fear, uncertainty, & doubt. This is what happens when boastful leaders are confronted with a hard choice, a choice of war or peace.

Why was it just a theater level air dominance exercise? Did the generals, whose job it was to game different options, do their job well enough? I know that a dove like Nawaz Sharif would never have gone for escalation, but IK? Back to the point about boastfulness & tough choices.

I have a humble request as per your knowledge you should start a new thread regarding expected capabilities of JF17 block 3, as I have felt that most people are indulge in theoretical talks with respect to JF17 rather discussing it's expected capabilities and future role.