Japan seeks foreign engines for stealth fighter prototypes

[chinapakistan]

When japan can co-operate with a country which Nuked them,i dont see a reason Y they cant co-opreate with Russia.

You got the point, japanese have no choice except being under US controll after WII. And japanese and US realationship is not a kind of cooperation but controlled by the US. More easy-understanding saying is US dont allow them to do that, and without US's permission japanese cant cooperate with any countries in millitory.

 

[gogbot]

I think Japan is going to build these planes around 2050?

well, I'm wondering base on the track record of arms industry in India. So its a legitimate question.

You know normally i would tell you to

But in the case of the Kaveri engine you actually make a fair point. The delay and cost escalation on this one project , has been unacceptable, especially so given the lack of any results , until only one year ago.

Some context

In 1986, the Indian Defence Ministry's Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) was authorized to launch a programme to develop an indigenous powerplant for the Light Combat Aircraft. It had already been decided early in the LCA programme to equip the prototype aircraft with the General Electric F404-GE-F2J3 afterburning turbofan engine, but if this parallel program was successful, it was intended to equip the production aircraft with this indigenous engine.
The DRDO assigned the lead development responsibility to its Gas Turbine Research Establishment (GTRE), which had some experience in developing jet engines. It had developed the GTX37-14U afterburning turbojet, which first ran in 1977, and was the first jet engine to be designed entirely in India. A turbofan derivative, the GTX37-14UB, followed. The GTRE returned to turbojet technology with the greatly redesigned, but unsatisfactory, GTX-35.

For the LCA programme, the GTRE would again take up a turbofan design which it designated the GTX-35VS "Kaveri" (named after the Kaveri River). Full-scale development was authorised in April 1989 in what was then expected to be a 93-month programme projected to cost 382 crores (nearly US$82 million at the time).

Development
The original plans called for 17 prototype test engines to be built. The first test engine consisted of only the core module (named "Kabini"), while the third engine was the first example fitted with variable inlet guide vanes (IGV) on the first three compressor stages. The Kabini core engine first ran in March 1995. Test runs of the first complete prototype Kaveri began in 1996 and all five ground-test examples were in testing by 1998; the initial flight tests were planned for the end of 1999, with its first test flight in an LCA prototype to follow the next year.However, progress in the Kaveri development programme was slowed by both politica

Now given all this , its fair to say's it been over 20 years of development.

The engine is almost completed , going though the last round of testing. Before being cleared for flight worthiness.

It is unfair of you to say that India's track record of development is going to impact anything. especially when it is so near completion , despite the myriad of problems already faced and overcome.

The engine is almost done . Why would there be more delays, on top of what's already happened.
And even then your hyperbole of 2050 is uncalled for.

in context
India herself has only gained independence a little over 60 years ago.

Suggesting a 40 year delay from point x-z in engine development is just childish.

 

[shaktiman2010]

Naysayers will never stop.

Even now they say, Arjun MBT is a failure.

Once you are prejudiced against Indian scientists, you can't appreciate anything, be it Kaveri or Arjun MBT.

Also, in Indian media, people get paid by foreign companies, for bashing DRDO. And, these morons say - "we are serving Indian interests by bashing DRDO and asking Indian army to purchase foreign systems because we think they are better."

Such is the state of dumb media.

 

[noksss]

link : Chinese AVIC Top Head admits the Poor Quality of Jet Engine|China Military Power Mashup

 

[noksss]

well, I'm wondering base on the track record of arms industry in India. So its a legitimate question.

Before talking about india see what ur top head of ACIC (Aviation Industry Corporation of China) has to say about the chinese WS-10 engine he said "China’s “Taihang” WS-10 Turbofan Engine is still unsatisfactory in its quality." and PLA Air Force has install some WS-10 engine on its J-11B dual-engine heavy fighters for evaluation. But the result is not positive.
Some resources report that the quality of WS-10 engine is terrible and PLA Air Force has begun to lose patiency of purchasing more WS-10 engine.

here is the link : Chinese AVIC Top Head admits the Poor Quality of Jet Engine|China Military Power Mashup

 

[faithfulguy]

You know normally i would tell you to

But in the case of the Kaveri engine you actually make a fair point. The delay and cost escalation on this one project , has been unacceptable, especially so given the lack of any results , until only one year ago.

Some context



Now given all this , its fair to say's it been over 20 years of development.

The engine is almost completed , going though the last round of testing. Before being cleared for flight worthiness.

It is unfair of you to say that India's track record of development is going to impact anything. especially when it is so near completion , despite the myriad of problems already faced and overcome.

The engine is almost done . Why would there be more delays, on top of what's already happened.
And even then your hyperbole of 2050 is uncalled for.

in context
India herself has only gained independence a little over 60 years ago.

Suggesting a 40 year delay from point x-z in engine development is just childish.

Well, given that India has a penchant for starting someting and bragging about it and not completing it or it become unuseable, its porbably a good idea to hand over the entire project over to the Japanese. They are very good in building engines.

As for other guys who start to point to other country when I bring this up, I guess truth hurts. You know when someone admits the truth when they start to criticize others instead of defending the criticism.

Best luck on this engine.

 

[shaktiman2010]

Well, given that India has a penchant for starting someting and bragging about it and not completing it or it become unuseable, its porbably a good idea to hand over the entire project over to the Japanese. They are very good in building engines.

As for other guys who start to point to other country when I bring this up, I guess truth hurts. You know when someone admits the truth when they start to criticize others instead of defending the criticism.

Best luck on this engine.

I don't think Japanese is thinking of JV with Indians.

Japanese are ahead in material science and precision manufacturing. Indians are ahead in engine integration technology and test process experience.

But, it won't be acceptable to Japanese pride. Partnering with master(USA) is one thing, but with a developing country outside G-7, is totally another thing.

So,this decision of inviting information on GTX if true, is more about learning what Indians have achieved, so japs can use it in their own engine research.

 

[Thomas]

I don't think Japanese is thinking of JV with Indians.

Japanese are ahead in material science and precision manufacturing. Indians are ahead in engine integration technology and test process experience.

But, it won't be acceptable to Japanese pride. Partnering with master(USA) is one thing, but with a developing country outside G-7, is totally another thing.

So,this decision of inviting information on GTX if true, is more about learning what Indians have achieved, so japs can use it in their own engine research.

Sounds like the Chinese.......

 

[Indian-Devil]

Why there is fight started between these countries just for Indian engine??

Firstly Japneese have just sent request for information, as Kaveri engine also lie between the requirement for their prototypes. Its not just Kaveri, they have sent request to other engine manufacturers.

Secondly Its not selected till now, only its RFI has been sent. Moreover if selected, then it will be used on prototypes not on production fighters. As they will be using their own home grown engine for production fighters. They simply need some test bed for their technologies till their home grown engines are ready.

But its really a good news atleast someone considered Indian engine for their prototypes contender list. Its selected or not that is different thing.

 

[Luftwaffe]

Kinetic...Japan has outlined everything it gets will be TOT-A-Z, by the time russians/india offers pak-fa US'll offer F-35 or technologies from F-35 incorporated into their indigenous plane, and i am sure russians can't beat it. even what if at some stage if US offers to sell the design of YF-23 black widow that'll just fk up russians lol and truly it still beats. It is highly unlikely for japanese to proliferate by buying F-35/F-22 but US is waiting for the right moment, let japanese spent alot more in few years US will offer them something to kill project ATD-X, US to japan we sell but you will shut down the project end of story.

 

[Luftwaffe]

Thomas...
How did it sound when Chinese blown-up satellite in space, sure felt good, awesome sound,
It sounded stupid WMD in Iraq..

an old advise to an elite member for forgetting.
"Never under-estimate your opponent/enemy"

 

[ptldM3]

Kinetic...Japan has outlined everything it gets will be TOT-A-Z, by the time russians/india offers pak-fa US'll offer F-35 or technologies from F-35 incorporated into their indigenous plane, and i am sure russians can't beat it. even what if at some stage if US offers to sell the design of YF-23 black widow that'll just fk up russians lol and truly it still beats. It is highly unlikely for japanese to proliferate by buying F-35/F-22 but US is waiting for the right moment, let japanese spent alot more in few years US will offer them something to kill project ATD-X, US to japan we sell but you will shut down the project end of story.

Whatever you say.

Thomas...
How did it sound when Chinese blown-up satellite in space, sure felt good, awesome sound,
It sounded stupid WMD in Iraq..

an old advise to an elite member for forgetting.
"Never under-estimate your opponent/enemy"

One one hand you claim that if the Japanese take over the cancelled YF-23 project that it will "fk up russians" and on the other hand you claim to "never under-estimate your opponent", so which one is it?

Also explain why shooting down space junk is a hudge achievement, esspecially with today's technology.

 

[faithfulguy]

Whatever you say.



One one hand you claim that if the Japanese take over the cancelled YF-23 project that it will "fk up russians" and on the other hand you claim to "never under-estimate your opponent", so which one is it?

Also explain why shooting down space junk is a hudge achievement, esspecially with today's technology.

Of course US cannot underestimate its opponent. But does US have real opponents? Russia and China, though not allies, are not opponents. US has friendly relationship with both countries.

But when it comes to technology, do you really believe that overall, Russian technology can complete with the US technology?
Just wondeing, how many people here believe that this is true?

 

[faithfulguy]

I don't think Japanese is thinking of JV with Indians.

Japanese are ahead in material science and precision manufacturing. Indians are ahead in engine integration technology and test process experience.

But, it won't be acceptable to Japanese pride. Partnering with master(USA) is one thing, but with a developing country outside G-7, is totally another thing.

So,this decision of inviting information on GTX if true, is more about learning what Indians have achieved, so japs can use it in their own engine research.

I think only Indians believe that India is ahead of Japan in engine integraiton technology and test process experience. Do you have any sources on this or you just bend over and pull one out? The reason that Japan wouldn't want to partner with India is because overall, Japan is way ahead of India in engine technology. Maybe India has some niche components that Japan can copy. But that is about it. Trust me, the Japanese are very very good at copying.

 

[Prowler]

I think only Indians believe that India is ahead of Japan in engine integraiton technology and test process experience. Do you have any sources on this or you just bend over and pull one out? The reason that Japan wouldn't want to partner with India is because overall, Japan is way ahead of India in engine technology. Maybe India has some niche components that Japan can copy. But that is about it. Trust me, the Japanese are very very good at copying.

If the Japanese are so good at copying they could have just copied the existing engines that are on their fighters and build an air frame around it...seems like you are really bend over on making India look bad...And you ask about sources,please make sure you do what you preach i.e Post you source as to how you arrived at the conclusion that Japan is ahead in Engine integration test process and blah blah