Japan, China in race to sell India their high-speed trains

[Chronos]

what if the price of the ticket going far beyond that nomoral Indians could afford? China has huge landmass that we do have enough experice to build HSR on different geologic structure, which the Japanese lack of .


China could help out in infrastructure setup, TOT of HSR could be considered as well.

No, it is as what Bang Galore said. It is the same mistake Indians make. I think right now most of the revenue earned is going to operational expenses and 'leakages.' I don't see the rationale behind this project.

this going to be an expensive show piece, that is it.


But if you are going to go down this route, might as well buy Japanese. At a time when India is tryin to boost relation with Japan, that is going to be a good look.

There is a lot of Japanese investment also in the Chennai Bangalore industrial corridor.

 

[Arya Desa]

well couldn't agreed more...

China leads the world in High Speed Rail, and at a cost which is one third lower

having said that I think they will choose japan instead of china after all you know more poor in india than africa couple with iq81 is not there for no reason.

Lol 81 IQ India was richer than mighty 102 IQ han for the course of humanity till the 1990s. That speaks loads more about the hans than it does us.

 

[Bang Galore]

what if the price of the ticket going far beyond that nomoral Indians could afford? China has huge landmass that we do have enough experice to build HSR on different geologic structure, which the Japanese lack of .

The price of the tickets will have to be subsidised anyways, there is no way it can be at actuals (including capital outlay), the key issue here will be a statement of relationship with the partner concerned. That is why Japan is likely to be the favourite.

 

[bloo]

No, it is as what Bang Galore said. It is the same mistake Indians make. I think right now most of the revenue earned is going to operational expenses and 'leakages.' I don't see the rationale behind this project.

this going to be an expensive show piece, that is it.


But if you are going to go down this route, might as well buy Japanese. At a time when India is tryin to boost relation with Japan, that is going to be a good look.

There is a lot of Japanese investment also in the Chennai Bangalore industrial corridor.

I don't think its going to be just a show piece.
It possibly will still be cheaper than air travel and faster than normal trains with all the comforts of a plane or better.
The Mumbai-Ahmadabad corridor will have a 320km/h operating speed which will take probably around 2 hours with a high speed train.

 

[Tshering22]

China should pull out immediately! It's obvious that they are not going to play a fair game. Why bother with our time and money? The Indians want to spend more, and the Japanese want to "help". They deserve each other.

Businesses don't think like that. There is always a great opportunity hidden everywhere for businessmen. The Japanese have been doing a long feasibility study in India since the last BJP government initiated it. There are multiple corridors planned, but that doesn't mean China loses out by default.

For a crude example just look at the smartphone industry. The new Chinese entrant Xiaomi has rocked and upset the entire market for smartphones, setting a totally new high benchmark. We are talking about China toppling smartphone giants like Samsung which has a price penetration at any level, while Japanese Sony has a premium has also been hit.

I know it doesn't make an apple to apple comparison, but here we are talking about a government that has our country on priorities more than appeasing anyone else.

Cheer up and let the best bidder win.

 

[Tshering22]

china ?? Does the railways want to be kidding by these ctrl c plus ctrl v??

You want to reinvent the wheel?

With the kind of execution our Indian Railways has and other government industries have, we will see bullet trains in a 100 years when The Jetsons style travel craft would be reality in China, Japan and Korea.

Better to have a practical solution (from any country) and use that as a base to develop our own industries, rather than trying a tardy approach ourselves.

 

[anant_s]

The price of the tickets will have to be subsidised anyways, there is no way it can be at actuals

& that explains why return of investment is usually slow on such projects. Even with higher than normal or prevailing fare rates on railways, HSR fares will still be less than airfares. This means government subsidizing tickets and that adds indirectly to cost of project over its entire lifetime. Sections of media cribbing about high projected fares must take this factor into account.

 

[qwerrty]

i hope china lose in this race. they have 1 accident record is bad enough already. this is going to be very bad. anyone with a brain can smell it. let em japs take all the blame. lol.. the world's worst rail safety record country is going high speed. oh no..

Around 15,000 people killed every year in rail accidents
Mahendra Singh, TNN | Aug 21, 2013, 07.01AM IST NEW DELHI:

A high-level safety review committee appointed by railways in 2012 had found that almost 15,000 people were killed every year while crossing rail tracks, and had described it as an annual "massacre" due to poor safety standards.

It was noted that a large number of casualties took place over the entire railway system due to trespass of which around 6,000 deaths were reported on the Mumbai suburban system alone.

Around 15,000 people killed every year in rail accidents - The Times of India

List of Indian rail incidents - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Etilla]

What happened to Germany?

Bombardier may get the contract.

But Japan has major lobby through their developmental bank and Mumbai Delhi Industrial Corridor.

If China gets it i would be surprised as both Germany and Japan are better poised for the contract despite the higher costs than China.

 

[jha]

& that explains why return of investment is usually slow on such projects. Even with higher than normal or prevailing fare rates on railways, HSR fares will still be less than airfares. This means government subsidizing tickets and that adds indirectly to cost of project over its entire lifetime. Sections of media cribbing about high projected fares must take this factor into account.

To be fare. HSR tickets even if are equal to Airfare will find lot of traffic. The whole check in saga in airports take lot of time. I personally would prefer HSR in sub-1000 Km travel anyday over airplanes.

 

[BestUsernameEver]

As someone who has taken the ICE a dozen times, Shinkansen several times (Tokyo-Kyoto-Osaka and back) and the Eurostar once (the older one, back in the 90s).

I will say that the Shinkansen is absolutely world class. I hope the Indians choose it.

It's a pity though that European high speed trains such ICE, TGV, Eurostar, Talgo, AGV, Velaro etc (most of which are of course produced by Alstom or Siemens) aren't represented in this tender...But hey...

 

[Speeder 2]

wow. this is definately going to be "Rafale vs Eurofighter" 2.0!

if any major indian int'l bidding process is any guide, the following are the clear guidelines:

1. high speed train is much more complicated and expensive than AMCA. The bidding process alone will last 15 years at least without a clear winner, depending on the all levels of kick-backs here or there - the phenominon seems once more to underscore Indians' true love for heavy BDSM (receiving, of course).

2. India has no money hence zero finance, heavy lack the corresponded supporting infrastructure for the high speed rails (stations, rail tracks, electricity suplies, etc), no skilled railed workers, no enough legalised and dedicated land available, no expertise of effective administration(of even a slow train) , whatsoever.

whoever builds this is going to prepare to do it for FREE at best (suffer heavy loss at usual) for the next 100 years and take the huge hit on its int'l reputation of reliability and efficiency afterwards, because big accidents are bound to occur on Indians' watch frequently, before trapped into some 50-year-long lawsuits by Indian courts for massive compensations of all kinds... It's Incredible India after all, be warned.

3. So i highly recommend China quit this after the initial bidding (bait), and leave the hanging rope for friendly Japan instead.

4. an advice for japan's bidding firms: construct at least 500 hooks on top and on both sides of each train to suit the locals. A completely innovative country-specific urgent warning system must be invented and installed along the rails to warn off in time those who will handle their "nature calls" inside high speed tracks on a daily basis. After a passby of a high speed train, the biblical "when Sh!t hit fans" is bound to play out in its full grandour in either case without any strench of imagination. Good Luck!

 

[anant_s]

It's a pity though that European high speed trains such ICE, TGV, Eurostar, Talgo, AGV, Velaro etc (most of which are of course produced by Alstom or Siemens) aren't represented in this tender...But hey...

Thats not the case, European majors like Siemens, Bombardier and Alsthom (now GE) will definitely be in fray as they are for a tender to supply High Horse power electric locos for IR Dedicated Freight corridor project.

 

[ashwamedh]

Nope. Just another crazy harebrained idea. Not the time for us. Too expensive when we can't get the rest of the network working decently without accidents. These are just things that may serve as some aspirational showpieces at the most.

Very well said.........But if we don't start now, we may be left behind.......Instead of not starting at all, we should start with small prototype like projects.

 

[Daedalus]

Steps to concretise Mumbai-Ahmedabad bullet train project

Ahead of Prime Minister Narendra Modi's Japan visit, railways is stepping up efforts to concretise the Mumbai-Ahmedabad high speed rail corridor project amid expectation that a way forward is likely to be materialised during the trip.

The bullet train is expected to run at a speed of 300 km per hour on the 534-km-long Mumbai-Ahmedabad route.

India and Japan are cooperating on Western Dedicated Freight Corridor and the proposed high speed rail corridor between Mumbai and Ahmedabad, Railway Board Chairman Arunendra Kumar said on Wednesday.

Asked about the possibility of any agreement on Mumbai-Ahmedabad high speed corridor to be signed between India and Japan during PM's visit from August 30, he, however, declined to comment saying, "I cannot say about it."

Currently JICA and French railway are involved in the feasibility study of the Rs 62,000 crore Mumbai-Ahmedabad bullet train project.

On the progress of the bullet train project, Kumar said, "JICA has already submitted the preliminary report last month and the second report with more details is expected anytime now. Then the third and final report will be submitted by June 15."

While French report will mainly focus on business development model of the project, JICA study will cover the entire gamut including alignment, scheduling, tariff, technology, traffic, funding pattern, environment and social impact, passenger profile, number of station among others.

JICA's first report was discussed in detail at the Board and now we are awaiting the next report, CRB said.

Rail Budget has allocated Rs 100 crore for the preparatory work for the bullet train project.

The allocated fund will be utilised for skill development in high speed train and studies on the proposed diamond quadrilateral project, he said.

Steps to concretise Mumbai-Ahmedabad bullet train project - IBNLive